2021-02-13 00:10:23

The original posting here is perhaps one of the most satisfying things I have read in quite some time.

It seems that common sense is a lost art. I am here as a special type of artist to bring that beauty back. If you don't like my work, prove that yours is better. Paint me a beautiful picture of life. Otherwise, I have no interest.

2021-02-13 00:20:41

Lol, honestly the fact some of y'all missed post 21 then my quoting of it shows how much y'all take the time to read topics fully

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2021-02-13 00:24:26

I did in fact read it, but ... do you expect everyone, at all times to read everything in every post ... it is up to the original poster to present things clearly ... no one should have to go looking to find the explaination. If people want more info, you edit the original post and make a new post where you also share this info.

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2021-02-13 00:34:03

@69
I'm not really sure what to make of what you're saying.  You're mad that he's not around a lot, while also mad that he's around a lot.  You want to go across the country with few to no independent living skills because being independent there "feels wrong", but you apparently have the opportunity to practice where you are.  So, without trying to demean your personal experience, what the fuck are you thinking?  Because it sounds like you're roughly saying you want to go skydiving but nevermind the skydiving classes because you don't like the friend who drives you there, so instead you're going to just go jump out of the plane without any idea what you're doing.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can/do even leave the house on your own with Uber or whatever, and the only thing he really does is wants to know where you are?  I'm sure he's overbearing, maybe even emotionally manipulative, but don't you realize that most parents of blind people wouldn't ever let their blind "kid" who's actually over 18 leave the house because o my god what if something goes wrong?

Like, on the one hand family situations can fuck you up, but on the other hand this is a really irresponsible sort of thought process and everything I've seen leads me to believe that while you have issues they're not bad enough that you should be thinking like this.

Also, a hard truth of the world is that if you're disabled you'll be someone's inspiration.  Your dad sounds bad except that you've decided to take the worst possible interpretation of your situation and treat it as truth, so maybe you should consider that maybe you're already doing more than you think?  My parents did that kind of thing some, but frankly "is in mainstream high school" is a huge accomplishment by the standards of what most blind people can manage.  But it doesn't matter.  Whether people are saying it or not, if you become even slightly impressive people will look at you like that, and whatever friend circle you're in--even if it's the best imaginable for blind people--will always consider you a bit, I guess otherworldly or something.  We don't really have a good word for it.

But seriously, separate what parts of this are your mental health and what parts are objective truth and work from there.  You really don't seem to have done that step.  What I'm hearing is "I'm in a shitty situation right now, but I have enough freedom and opportunities that I could build something from it, and the beginning of a plan to get somewhere better.  Instead, I've decided that being blind is the end of the world, have tied my entire identity to it, and if I can't make the entire rest of the planet take me seriously I'll kill myself".  If you can't reason yourself out of that hole, get serious help, but you should be able to do so simply by actively looking for reasons why it's not as bad as all that, seeking out blind people who aren't miserable all the time, and so on.  Yeah, depression can eat up all your energy but if you have time to post on here you have 5 minutes a day to spend on finding one thing that's not as bad as you think, or to try to find a new twitter account that's pretty positive to follow, or whatever.

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2021-02-13 00:41:26 (edited by JLove 2021-02-13 00:47:47)

@74,
This is why facts are good things, and why I was asking for them.  It was not, as you so eloquently claimed in post 72, to, "get my little jollies off on it."  It was because, as is so often the case, the revelation of more of the facts in a situation tends to shed light on what really happened and lead to at least a pretty good understanding of what is most likely the truth.
Here, after more facts have been revealed, I believe that in this particular case your emotions were slightly overexaggerated to what the situation called for.  I can attest to the fact that @75's claim regarding culture is true.  In America, we believe for some reason that "cunt" is the most vile epithet imaginable.  The fact is, most of the rest of the world sees it as a much milder thing, on par with "ass" or possibly "shithead."  It isn't all that uncommon, I don't think, for even inanimate objects like cars, toasters, etc., to be referred to as "cunts" when they don't work right in other parts of the world.  One of my friends once said that they had a "cunt" of a day.  Only in America are we so averse to the word.
That being the case, it would seem to me that your original post sort of blew out of proportion something that, in the grand scheme of things, wasn't exactly all that big of a deal.  Especially if what @75 is saying is true, that his intention was to stand up for someone he felt was being demeaned or in some way insulted.  If that's true, then that certainly doesn't seem to fall within the "blindie behavior" category that you've attempted to articulate.  I have known people with sight who would, and have, done the very same thing.  Standing up for others isn't unique to the blind community, or to any other, for that matter.  And there are times that one person standing up for another does so in a fashion that isn't necessarily the best.  But let's not ascribe things to being blind that aren't actually a result of lack of sight.  We have enough issues that are actually true.  We don't need to be inventing more of them.

2021-02-13 01:04:39

Lord London agreed with that, I was mainly pointing it out to the person who said he never went into what happened

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2021-02-13 01:08:17

I have edited post 1 to take the reference out.

No, it is a big deal, dismiss me all you like, I really don't care. Call me stupid, childish, immature, a fuck bag, a piece of shit, whatever, but don't dismiss the points made here because it is becoming a big deal. It's causing an impact that is felt whenever too many blind people escape out into the real world and start acting entitled and shitty. Would my original post be overkill if this were the first time, oh hell yes, but I don't feel that it is given that we see things like this happen more and more often.

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2021-02-13 01:23:02

What exactly is it that we're seeing more often? I'd have to have specific examples in order to understand what frustrates you so much.
I think you might have heard this argument 1 million times too, as a person who seem to be having the "blind people bad" attitude - but this is far from a blind people thing. Toxic behaviour seem to be extremely prevalent in many gamer communities - so if your focus was more on gamers I'd probably engage with you more and discuss the finer points. As it stands I'd need more examples of this that do not exactly pertain to the gaming side of the community.

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2021-02-13 01:24:14 (edited by Zarvox 2021-02-13 01:37:07)

I don't even know if the way I described and you clarified things is the truth or if I just did terrible at explaining them. But I'll take the benefit of the doubt that the former is actually correct, instead of trying to backup the idea that I just didn't explain it well. That's a weak argument anyway.
I'll respond to each point of your message to hopefully get the clearest picture across, and I need that clearest picture too.

I'm mad that he is gone because I depend on him so much, and he always says he wants to spend time with me, but he can't do that if he is gone. I could tell him that, but it sounds like commonsense to me. I have the desire to improve skills and find employment and things, but I have lost my hope. So I just let him do everything for me.

I'm mad that he is here because he does things for me, but that doesn't make it real help and he makes me uncomfortable with constant guilt trip. And believe me, I have tried talking to him about things. He will say he understands, but he doesn't. At best, he will only change his mindset about it 50% of the time, which I guess is better than 0. The thing about him is he is a flip flopper who doesn't have listening skills. How the hell do I work with someone like that? So yes, I would rather just have my own place where I don't have to deal with that crap. It's a love hate relationship, but I don't really hate him, I just hate his issues. But due to my hopelessness, I have just given up.

I want to travel across the country with no skills. Yeah, I said that I'm an idiot. That's a stupid thing to do. I kind of can't do it anyway because I don't have anything for a resume. So that's not an option for awhile even if I want it to happen. It's a long term goal.

It feels wrong being independent here, but I have the opportunity to practice. I could do cleaning and shit, but that wouldn't do any good if my dad just fucks everything up the next week. My state counselor reached out to an organization that provides them, but due to the virus, they can't come out to my house and help me with it. I was mainly going to focus on cooking with them. I tried asking a neighbor if they could teach me, and they said no. I could ask a few other neighbors, and that might get me somewhere. I can go to any place I want, any time I want. And no, my dad wanting to know where I am isn't a huge problem for me. I know why he does it. The problem is if I don't want to tell him. Which is rare. But when it does happen, he does his guilt trip thing. This happened when I started mental counseling a few months back, which has since stopped.

So what the fuck am I thinking? This is my thought process.
I am overwhelmed by adult life, and I have no sense of direction. I have the desire to get there, but no hope or motivation that I can get there. The only people who I can look up to for help is my dad and my state counselor, because my mother passed away when I was 12, my older brother was kicked out for being a dumbass, and my younger brother is living in a dorm in college.
My dad doesn't know how to help himself, and my other brother has also expressed the same loss of direction because of this, so it isn't me who this is just affecting. And my dad says one thing, but does another, so I can't rely on him. However since I have no direction and no hope, that's exactly what I do.
My state counselor is very slow, but very supportive. It turns out, it was someone else who they just now referred me too, that has the answers I am looking for. So maybe I can finally start getting somewhere, at least for getting out of the house and building volunteer experience for a resume.

I think the reason why things aren't making sense is because I failed to mention how I feel in terms of my position in the family.
Because I am blind, I am sheltered. And I have a weak voice. I can't stand up for myself. But even when I do, my dad says ok, let's do something about it. Of course nothing happens even when I remind him a thousand times. So back to square 1 with lost direction, can't rely on my dad, and losing hope. Not only does this make me not important to the family, but he doesn't tell me about everything he does, even though he always says, I want you to know everything that is going on. He didn't tell me that he bought another house. My younger brother had to tell me that. He didn't tell me that he was thinking of giving my older brother the new house, I found that out when we went to my older brother's son's birthday lunch. One part of me says I don't care what is going on, but the other half of me is angry that I am the only one who doesn't know what is happening. Even my younger brother who doesn't live here is up to date on things. If I ask about it, my dad and younger brother just say don't worry about it. If I ask my older brother, he will just ask for money. But my younger brother has a strong voice. He isn't afraid to confront dad about things. I am.
My dad has said for well over 2 years that he won't help my older brother anymore, but he keeps enabling him. He still contacts him, does things for him, lends him money, hints where the 10000 he owes me comes from. Oh btw he didn't tell me about that either. I only found out because I wanted to check my balance when I was buying something, and I noticed a shit ton missing.
So it's this bullshit of, I tell you everything, I want you to know what's going on, except he only tells me half the things that are going on.
And I'm angry at this family for pretending that I don't need to know, but I only 50% care about it anyway. So now because of secrets that I only care 50% about, and the rest of the shit mentioned above and probably more shit I haven't yet mentioned, I have the crazy idea to move that far away. There is a reason why I chose that specific location, but I'm still debating if that reason is important to me anymore or not.

2021-02-13 01:32:27

@82,
Except that you based your rant on what amounts to cultural misunderstanding, not blindness.  You're claiming that the event in question occurred because of a lack of sight, and the associated behaviors that go along with that.  I'm suggesting that in this particular case, you are looking at the situation incorrectly.  Unless your claim is that if London had not been blind, he would not have used the word cunt, I fail to see how you can attribute this to blindness.  And I just can't get there.  I know plenty of sighted people who have used the word "cunt."  Moreover, look at it like this.  On a personal level, I have more of an issue with the word "God damn" than I do cunt.  Should I ascribe your repeated use of that particular phrase in your original post to the fact that you're blind?  Of course not.  It had nothing to do with a lack of sight, and everything to do with the fact that you were rip-roaring pissed.  And that's my point.  London's telling the other guy not to be such a cunt had nothing to do with a lack of sight, and everything to do with his desire to stand up for someone else, and the cultural differences between America and most of the rest of the world.  That's not "blindie behavior."  It's more like human behavior.  A sighted person could have just as easily done the same thing.

2021-02-13 01:45:02

yeah OK but again, it still doesn't matter because everywhere you go, blind people start crawling out of the woodwork and fuck it up. Jesus, it's easy to see if you look hard enough. Though I guess what amounts to a fuck up in this community isn't what I'd call fucking it up, being as I never socialized with blind kids.

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End division
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2021-02-13 03:04:47

also @79 suicide would be a very selfish act. I have lots of things that I could be doing, and I have opportunities that some or most blind people don't. But you have to remember that my personality disorder plays a huge role in my issues. And the answer to fixing the disorder, is by being productive and getting an adult life. So with all this problems making it hard to progress or even start becoming an adult, and my disorder crushing me because of it, that puts together the recipe for suicide. It's selfish, and I try not to be a selfish person. But it's too much for me.

2021-02-13 03:40:34

@Zarvox
On the one hand yeah.  On the other hand my dad was arrested for dragging me across the house and insert typical divorce stories and $10000 was more money than I could have dreamed of having at your age, if I remember how old that is correctly.  Or my uncle, who (despite being a programmer) is the reason my grandmother hasn't retired because he borrowed 6 figures and never paid it back.  If we start family story time, half this site is going to have something that's roughly on where yours is.  If nothing else you're not nearly so alone as you think you are.  I don't talk about mine only because I know that everyone else on any thread in which I did so would just have an equally bad story or two.  This idea that big happy families exist and are the normal thing is a myth.  No, the norm is fucked up families that don't like each other very much.

Remote/telephone/etc mental health stuff isn't just a thing, right now it's the biggest thing.  You can probably find something along those lines if you call around.  But frankly in your case it's time for the big guns and if I were you I'd be finding my nearest psychiatrist and being like "look, I need to be functional, I'm not functional right now, I don't care about the side effects, if I am functional I will be doing these 5 things to make my life better" or something like that.  Also, for what it's worth your primary care may be willing to prescribe something.

I have briefly alluded to my health stuff in the past but I used to spend anywhere from 4 to 8 hours a day in pain like you wouldn't believe.  I'm now a successful programmer in Seattle.  It took 6 or 7 years to get to the programmer part, and a couple years after that to get to the Seattle part, but if I ever go 6 months between jobs in future it'll probably because I chose to do so.  You've figured out half the trying thing, namely that trying sucks.  But the other half of the trying thing is that once you've succeeded the first time, you're done.  By the second time people are just like "yep he's got references" or whatever and away you go.  Not literally, but it sure isn't years between jobs.

What you want to do isn't unreasonable, but even modest adult goals for sighted people take years.  Adjust your timeline and your expectation and you'll be much happier.

You can take all the parents etc. off your bank account with a simple trip to the bank and they won't know you've done it until they try to withdraw.

One of the possible paths to happiness, or at least more happiness than otherwise is this: realize that looking up to people isn't what you should be doing, and look up to yourself instead.  Thomas Edison was a ruthless businessman who ran competitors out of business and borderline stole intellectual property.  The founders of the U.S. owned slaves.  Whenever you look up to someone you will eventually find out why you shouldn't have.  Sometimes, sometimes there is an exception and you meet someone who is just good.  But those exceptions are stupidly rare.

But, I still kind of stand by what I said about adulthood just sort of hitting you, as it does most of the sighted people.  The world has taken away the forces that pushed you forward and abruptly shifted the timelines of anything from weeks to years out from under you.  I don't think I personally know any adult who doesn't think at least a year ahead when they say "I know, how about I move across the country".  My future personal programming projects are sort of planned out until 2022 or 2023 at this point, in the sense that I know that's the earliest point at which anything will come of them because I only have weekends or whatever to work on it.  Your expectations are still those of a high school student.  You're holding yourself to those expectations, then getting frustrated when they don't happen; instead, you need to change them.  At least change them to the sorts of expectations a typical sighted adult would have of themselves, because seriously you're idea of the average blind person is actually the average sighted person and having a plan that might work to let you move across the country in a year or two is pretty damn good by any standard whatsoever whether it works or not.

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2021-02-13 06:01:14

Two things I want to say.

The first is in a more official capacity. This thread seems to have gotten reasonably calm, and that's good...but the first twenty posts, give or take, had me convinced I was going to have to start dropping warnings. In hindsight, I probably still could, if I wanted to be a hardass...but I don't. Suffice it to say that if you can't get your point across without insulting or shouting or demeaning someone, maybe there's a problem there. Please don't spit on leniency. I like where this topic has gone - well, I appreciate it, in that it's no longer a dumpster fire - so let's just keep up with that.

Now, to my second point.

Something sorta jumped up and bit me when you were talking about your dad, Zarvox. I know people like him. People who might speak ill of others but will still help or enable them. People who want to show how much they love you by doing things for you. This is just how some people are wired. When you're blind and trying to assert yourself, this is toxic, but it might not be entirely intentional. From my admittedly distant perspective as an outsider, this is a really complicated position, and I think you might be putting the darkest spin on your relationship with your dad. No, I'm not suggesting you just hand-wave what he's doing and let it happen, or totally forget it. Not at all. But maybe there's some middle ground you haven't found yet.

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2021-02-13 06:39:44

I stopped reading this thread a bit back, so maybe I should just STFU and bow out, but I'd really like to see a whole lot less armchair psychology and espousing of grand theories of humanity from this forum.

A whole bunch of you need to stop telling others that their behavior indicates X, or that they have a pattern of Y, or... To be frank, most of you lack the life experience to make those kinds of statements to begin with. And if you *had* that life experience, you'd know better than to open your damned mouth about it, because you'd know there's about a million reasons for anyone to do anything, and just because someone doesn't see those all doesn't mean you have to school them on it. tongue

Also, this entire thread is ridiculous. I can literally pick any subgroup, point to some part of it, and make grand statements about how the behavior of that group is ruining it for the rest of us. Newsflash: not only has that been scientifically proven not to help, based on official studies published by the Instituticus Bullshiticus...but it really doesn't change any minds. If anyone reading your rant was inclined to do a damned thing differently, their own conscience would have stopped them. They wouldn't let the opinion of some random cheesewheel on some random internet forum change their behavior if they were the types to be influenced by a post like this.

Seems this thread has gotten better, but man, what an unhealthy dumping ground of negativity that won't change anything. Ugh.

2021-02-13 06:51:27

Nolan, I'm honestly wondering if you're including me here.
I try not to be too pushy about stuff like this, but psychology is sort of a specialty of mine. Comes with the territory (social work, mental health, etc). I don't know Zarvox or his dad nearly well enough to be 100% certain of anything, but I'm trying to get Zarvox to think about things, rather than just drawing seventy-four conclusions and putting him in a box.

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2021-02-13 07:04:49

@Zarvox, do you have an Independent Living center in your state?
If not, there is the Carrol Center in MA that accepts people from all over the US, and there is also the Daytona Rehab Center in Florida but I'm not sure if they take people from out of state.
But if you're part of your state's blind services agency, why not ask them about something like that?

2021-02-13 07:44:02 (edited by Zarvox 2021-02-13 07:50:38)

because I have the resources I need, I am just not taking full advantage of them, I am impatient in waiting for them, and my grit is weak. I have some strengths no doubt, but grit is a weak one. And let's not forget about the motherfucking virus that is slowing everything down like an enzyme with mental retardation. I'm sure I could be on better termss with my dad. I am just very very uncomfortable talking about any of my problems around him. I guess you can say that I don't give him a chance to help. But isn't it common sense that I need help? I've kind of hinting at the fact that I am unhappy. I don't show it to him, but he should be able to read between the lines, right? Maybe this is more of my fault than I originally thought, but my dad could be doing a lot better than he is. Sometimes he asks me, hey what is your situation with school like, or what is your situation of employment like. And I just say I don't know.
I'm an asshole if you haven't noticed, and I think it is really starting to show now based on what I just said. I don't try to be an asshole, I just am.
He asks me all the time if I am ok. I just say yeah, every time. I just don't think he is the right person to help me. Based on his logical skills that I see, and the behavior I do observe, I don't feel that he could help me much.

2021-02-13 13:55:38

@91 TBH, I wasn't even thinking of the Zarvox angle. That's another angle this thread spun out in that I haven't really gotten into at all.

I just see a lot of "I'm going to rant about X, so I'll construct an elaborate strawman and psychoanalyze it back to first principles," or "Y did something I don't like. That's because he thinks Z, and expects W, and..." Then the whole thread goes off the rails into half a hundred posts about someone's probably inaccurate motivations.

I'd just like folks to take a minute and ask themselves if the stories they're making up might, maybe, not be accurate? And if that's a possibility, maybe they should just say something and leave it there, rather than piling a bunch of motivations onto someone and telling them what they think and why.

Put more succinctly, I like interactions much less when someone tells me "I don't like that you did X, you're thinking Y and feeling Z," vs. just saying "I don't like X" and leaving it there. The latter doesn't strip away my autonomy and power. And I see a lot of unempowering behavior on this forum.

That said, someone genuinely wanting advice in a situation where all parties can't be present, is a different thing entirely. I just wonder if we can start disliking people's games or choice of phone or whatever without trying to make it some huge character flaw that we've taken it upon ourselves to fix.

2021-02-13 14:34:47

94,
I think you're honestly reading far too much into this thread. I mean as you've said the hole Zarvox angle is a hole other thing, but the rest of this really does come down to 1 ragy blind guy playing to most of the stereotypes he's railing against, a few assorted yes men and opinionless idiots agreeing with him because his substanceless rhetoric is one that they can easily subscribe to, and everyone else trying to sow some common sense into a field intent upon reaping nothing but chaos and disorder. And then there's the Zarvox humans.
Camlorn,
Lol if both of my parents had been arrested every time they dragged me across a room, or a house, or whatever, they'd have some serious fucking problems with the legal system by now. Ditto the slapping, etc.
I do fully agree with you though, re, families in general just plain sucking for the most part. If this thread has taught me anything, it's that situations like mine, or Zarvox's, etc are nowhere near as isolated as they honestly should be. And I mean, the rest of my family is no better in that department, my aunt, whom I'm staying with right now, doesn't even talk to my cozen any more, and my grandmother on my mum's side was abused pretty badly as a child before being literally taken away by the police and put into foster care.
I do wonder though, on the subject of bank accounts in the US, how the fuck can parent's just withdraw money like that? My partner over there has a similar thing going on, they're 15, BTW, and I just. What? I got my own bank account when I was 13, have never needed to change providers, got registered for online banking when I turned 17 last year, that's it. I now have full control, I've long since stopped paper statements being sent to my parent's, etc. They would literally need both my debit card and pin in order to do anything with it, never mind that they're technically still my legal guardians. So how the hell can they just do that sort of thing over there? And, I'm sorry, but taking fucking £10000 without even asking you first is literal theft. It's just wrong.

2021-02-13 14:45:55

Without having read the entire topic and not wanting to comment on the exact situation at hand, but only one small detail...
Not wanting to clean up because someone is going to mess it up next week anyway... yeah, sounds exactly how cleaning and housekeeping works. You yourself will mess it up, because you usually don't have the discipline to clean up every time you spill something on the floor or simply make things messy. You just have to clean the flat, thats how it is, dirt comes literally from alone, dust will collect without you living in the flat, its just a thing you'll need to do, and thats already the end of the line wink.

2021-02-13 15:25:51

Damn, Ben Shapiro of audio games, I admire your sentiment, and I know exactly what you are talking about, but actually, this happens a great lot in sighted environments, considering that there are much more sighted folks.
We can only hope to guide some people and that some will mature overtime, or in the worst scenario, their parents fall off the bike and they'll have to figure it all out on their own.

I choose to be happy

2021-02-13 15:46:34 (edited by Zarvox 2021-02-13 15:48:20)

@96 fair enough, but I will disagree with one thing. There is always mail on the kitchen table, and I can't just sort that and organize it  so I can have a place to eat without mail being in my way. Besides if I did try to organize it, my dad would say that it wasn't organized in a way he likes it. Yes, my dad attempts to sort his mail at the fucking kitchen table. And it doesn't work. Why? Because we're trying to put things on the table that, oh I don't know, belong on the table, and so I have to move things out of the way, and then he tries to sort it again plus adds more onto it, and this continues. Sometimes there is even mail in the chairs too. It's one thing to have a mail problem. But it's another to have a mail problem in the fucking kitchen! It doesn't matter if there is only 2 of us, the kitchen isn't for your god damn mail!

2021-02-13 15:53:35

The armchair psychology is all over the internet. Especially on Reddit.

OK, I can admit that my using this particular individual is a weak reference, because it wasn't a blindness specific thing that happened. However, it really does make me wonder how virtually know one knows what I'm talking about. It's worrying because it's indicative of a larger problem. People aren't aware that their behavior is weird, strange, abnormal, and not conducive to sustained normal human interaction.

These same people will turn around and complain about how they're not treated fairly. Sighted people treat them like children, or like they need help with everything. Well a lot of that is down to stereotypes and misconceptions, but this is a behavioral thing too.

The lol spamming, the monopolizing communications channels with things no one else cares about like your sound pack, your team talk servers, who did what to whom. It needs to stop, because it's hurting those of us who actually want to coexist with sighted people.

Do you think Dennis and the rest of the folks who run AA expected to turn their MUD into a blindie daycare? Do you think they like some of the things that blind people bring to their MUD? The same question goes for any MUD. Are their developers happy with the way their MUD went since blind people moved in? I would heavily wager the answer to that question is a resounding NO!

So yeah, post 1 was delivered in a yelling, swearing tone, because you all are acting like children and I'm fed up with the way that some of you end up tainting a place with your brand of silliness that really should be discouraged in your own community, and should not pass through to the outside world.

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End division
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2021-02-13 16:44:03

I hate to break it to you, but this happens in the sighted world as well. Just look at resetera.

Take care, it's a desert out there.