2011-06-14 12:56:43

hi aprone. i never thought of a game like this that you had to have multiple versions of
you to kill these damn guards, lol, this is fun and impressive man, really,no one will ever
code faster than you in this community, you will own the market. speaking of the game i'm stuck
i killed the lab technician, got to the computers room and the room left of it but i can't open
the door at l10, here's my save game so you can see if it's a bug or if i messed up everything
and will have to start again. i'm running the last version, in the two playthroughs that i did
i ended up here.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1695866/matheus
i'm still getting the hang of the game.

Best regards: Matheus
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my first language,
contact info: skype: alian_15 msn: [email protected]
email: [email protected]

Thumbs up

2011-06-14 13:13:48

remember that there are buttons. There is a button at j10, which you could have found out by listening to the messages, that keeps the l10 door open while you have someone standing on it.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2011-06-14 13:38:01

hi key, oh that's what i found out in the last game i played.
but when i move to the other place(l10 in this case)
what's my objective? i open the main doors,but the emergency doors are still closed.
i think that a key that speaks the current objective, i mean what you have to do should be
available, at least as a tutorial in the first mission, or you could create a first tutorial

before this mission to explain the mechanics of the game, what do you think aprone?
it would be easyer to get people started.
for example lunimals, in the first mission it's like a tutorial, you receive feedback and
texts guiding you,well not only in the first mission, but during the entire game. i don't want
temporal to be too easy and spoil what i should do in the entire game, just in the start.
smiles.

Best regards: Matheus
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my first language,
contact info: skype: alian_15 msn: [email protected]
email: [email protected]

Thumbs up

2011-06-14 16:55:10

I think the guards close the emergency doors after tick 20 or so, if you don't kill them all before then. If that happens, you have to jump back to when they were open to go through them.

Some of my games
Keep up to date by following @Jeqofire on twitter!
Ear Ninja?

Thumbs up

2011-06-14 16:59:09 (edited by twynn92 2011-06-14 17:20:59)

Aprone,
Is it possible to reorder messages? For example, I was doing the playthrough, and I noticed that the message about your other selves was about the third message over. Can all the time-based messages be first to be encounter? The message about killing guards and doors opening are first, which is good, but the messages about your other selves seems to be third or fourth in the list.

Room descriptions and dead people should be last. The alive people should be before the room description and everything.

So, message order:
1: Your actions (killing guard, door opening, and any other time-sensitive stuff).
2: Your other instances (if any).
3: Any alive guards and their locations.
4: Dead people, because they really don't matter as much.
5: Room description as well as exits. This has been read by the user when they first enter the room. so it's not that important.

CAE_Jones wrote:

I think the guards close the emergency doors after tick 20 or so, if you don't kill them all before

Hmm... If I'm not mistaken, it's twelve ticks after they see you. Makes me wonder, though. Can you appear to them first at, say, tick 30, then go back to tick zero at a later time and that'd give you more time? The message about the guards noticing you and activating the alarm doesn't appear twice when you go back in time in the... uh... lab?

I'll be working on the playthrough when I get home for those who are wondering and waiting for a new one.

Thumbs up

2011-06-14 18:37:35

Drg, KeyIsfull is correct, you still have to hit that other button to open the door.  On the saved game you sent me, I just traveled back in time about 10 ticks and your past self was still holding that door open.

I agree that this game probably needs a tutorial of some kind.  Lunimals basically held your hand and walked you through learning the game, while this one dumps you into a cell with nothing, haha!  At least that coincides with the game story, lol.  A key to list your current objective was actually in my original design, but it proves to be quite difficult to code.  Each time you jump through time, things you have already done technically become things you haven't done yet.  It becomes very complicated for the computer to sort out what your true next objective should then be.  I haven't abandoned the button idea, but I just wanted to explain why it wasn't already present in the game.

twynn, I'm pretty sure I can reorder the messages, but I still have to check to make sure.  I've written down your suggested order, and I must say, I like it.  I'm still trying to separate the messages into smaller pieces to place them in to a separate, more detailed, list.  I haven't had the necessary time to code for the past day or two, but I hope to have time today if real life can stay out of my way, lol.  I want people to have the normal message list, but also a second list that splits up all of the guard, door, and past self info into individual messages.  It's annoying when you have to hear all 8 guards listed in a row, when you're really only interested in where the last one is standing.

If you first got the guards to notice you at tick 30, and then got them to notice you at tick 0, it shouldn't give you more time.  If I've coded it correctly, them knowing earlier should travel up the chain of events, meaning the emergency doors would close around tick 14 instead of 44.  But who knows, I may not have coded that correctly, so someone could get lucky!

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-04 11:27:56

Hi folks,
as this game absolutely rocks and I haven't seen any posts on it for a surprisingly long time, I decided it's time to resurrect this topic again, just like I have resurrected myself. :-D
I don't know what to say to praise and appreciate the game enough, really, it's just something so wonderfully unique, and yes, it took me a while to get used to the concept. :-) But now I am enjoying it thoroughly, yes, right now as I write this, I have the game window open, and I can't get enough!
Possible
spoiler
space
below,
be
warned:
I'm still struggling with mission 1 after killing the lab technician in the security room but I guess I am just missing something obvious on the map or in time. LOL
Matheus wrote about a room to the left of the security room but I just can't seem to find any other door, when I step on the switch at M8, it tells me that the door at M8 has just opened. :-) And I can't see any other door, so I thought my only way out of that room was back through the lab and the other doors in there. That would require me to plan for this situation in advance and keep holding that button at J10 longer. In any case, I'll give it another try, and if I still can't make it work, I might upload the saved game, cause I've been trying to get farther from that point for some time now.
Thanks for the incredible game, Aprone, it's as addictive as all your other creations, if not more!
Lukas

Thumbs up

2011-07-04 16:13:57

Thanks for the support Lukas!  I wonder if the game was a little too complicated or confusing for the average gamer.  That's always a risk when doing new concepts, and I'll freely admit I pretty much offered NO instructions to help new players learn to play.  Whoops, sorry everybody, lol.

I think what might first help, is to point out that the game currently has a bug which messes up the door coordinates in the messages.  As you saw, the switch at M8 says the door at M8 opened, lol.  That message should have said that the door at M4 has just opened.

Well, the room to the left of the Security control room is actually the Lab.  The lab is shaped like a capitol letter T, so it actually completely surrounds the Security control room, and most of the cell you started out in.  Perhaps you are thinking of the room that is left of the cell?  To travel left of the cell, or lab, you'll have a few doors to get past.

Possible
Spoiler
alert
below

After you've hacked the computer in the Security control room, you have a places you can check out next.  The most obvious one is the door at M-4, which is held open with the switch at M-8.  The other possibility is to check out the Main door at E-5 and E-6.  The door is large, that is why it takes up 2 tiles.  If you get past the Main door, but find yourself stuck at a sealed Emergency door, I'll just remind you that the lab guards closed this one if you weren't able to kill them all fast enough.

This reminds me of how many times I've had a good chuckle at emails people have sent me about Temporal.  About a half dozen times I've had people tell me they had to start the level over because they didn't kill the guards in time.  Having the ability to jump through time, gives you ways to fix that problem without starting over.  lol!

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-04 17:48:48

The game's not to difficult if you think about it carefully, and somehow resist the temptation to hit your computer with a sledgehammer when you bump into a past self for the 500th time.
Hey aprone could you release the next version with some kind of sound effects?

Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.

2011-07-04 21:11:40 (edited by twynn92 2011-07-04 21:19:17)

lukas wrote:

when I step on the switch at M8, it tells me that the door at M8 has just opened.

I do believe that's a bug, as there is no door at M8. It does, however open another door which you can see... errr... hear in my audio walkthrough below.

Okay, I never wanted to post this, but here's an audio walkthrough of Temporal. It doesn't go through the whole mission, but it does go through to the computer room and a little beyond that before I disrupted the time continuum accidentally.

So, click here to download a walkthrough of Temporal from Sendspace. I know it's not very well done, but you'll just have to deal. big_smile

I did not upload this one to Dropbox simply because I was lazy, and I want the max points. LOL. Hey, at least I'm honest!

Enjoy!

Thumbs up

2011-07-04 21:50:29

twynn92, I can't wait to listen to it!  I'm headed out to my in-laws for the day, so no internet access for me, but I've downloaded the walkthrough to my laptop so I can listen to it while I'm there.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-05 10:03:10

Nice walk-through, Twynn92.
And by the way, I realized that the thing with the door switches was probably a bug, yeah, and completed mission 1 successfully just last night! Wow! :-D
It's an absolutely great game! When I realized what that message that I got back at tick 1 when I first woke up in the cell actually means, I was totally amused and blown away! you really enjoy time paradoxes, Aprone, do you? LOL
It's a cool story, really unique and immersive. I even start liking the fact that the game has no audio at all, it's like the good old times when there was no other choice left for blind gamers but to play only interactive fiction games (except attempts at mainstream ones, with or without sighted assistance), and even though there were some turn-based ones, I really doubt there was even one that involved you navigating through time. :-D
I started with mission 2 but I had to stop quickly, I was practically falling asleep at the computer and the layout of that place is quite more complicated. :-)
May I suggest just a few things, besides fixing that annoying door switch bug if possible? I would really like to hear if you like these suggestions or not, and if it would be possible to implement them without having to rewrite the whole game in the process. :-)
I assume that when I get the message "You've escaped the cell block", it means that I have completed the mission? It was a bit confusing and I'm still not entirely certain since there was no other warning or message or anything besides that. So, if that's true, ten maybe it would be nice to have mission 2 locked at first, like with your other games, and only when you first step on that cell on the other side of the wault door or something would it be unlocked and the first one closed with a message that you have beaten it.
and then, I got an idea to possibly improve the game's output system, for which Lone Wolf was my source of inspiration. When new messages appear, do not store them in any kind of buffer and instead just let the screen reader speak them all right away. However, the game would then also store the last x characters. The player could then switch to a history mode or window with a keystroke and conveniently browse the text in a readonly edit field or something. Maybe important messages (so basically anything other than the room descriptions that are generated with every move) could trigger a beep of some kind so that the player would be informed in case they missed or skipped it, and they could then look at it back in the history.
and last but not least, we might use some more navigational keystrokes to make orientation even easier and faster, I think. I was thinking about a key to quickly jump to a respective edge of the map, so for instance home, end, page up and page down, and then about a command that would move you all the way through to the nearest room in a given direction, or to the wall if there is no direct path. it could be control with the arrow keys.
What do you think about all of this? I would just be eager to see this cool game improve even further! If anything of this seems impossible or not a good idea, or you just don't want to spend any more time on the game, I would still enjoy it immensely even as is! Thanks once again for everything you are doing for the community!
Lukas

Thumbs up

2011-07-05 15:34:10

Glad you hear you've beaten the first mission Lukas!  As you can probably tell, from the past posts, I have quite a list of things I need to do to Temporal, lol.  For each of my games, I keep a file that is simply a list of everything I need to fix or change about the game, and Temporal's file is quite long.  I think the problem is that this game is one of the most confusing games to code I've done.  As many programmers will tell you, making a fairly small change can sometimes cause undesired effects in other places, well believe me, the time aspect of this game takes that to a whole new level.

I've written down your suggestions for the new navigation keys, and the idea for the back log of messages.  I think the back log especially would be useful, so I'm sure people will be happy to have that added.  I've been wanting to add sounds, for like the doors moving, footsteps, guards yelling, and everything else, but it is a little overwhelming to first implement the sounds on this game.  Basically each sound needs to be tied to an event at a specific moment in time, but I also need to have conditions so that it won't play the sound if you've managed to change the past.  For example, you kill a guard at tick 20 so he groans in pain as he is killed.  After playing a little while you jump back to 20 and hear him dying in the next room as your other self kills him.  So far so good, but now you end up going back and killing the same guard at tick 5, so I have to make sure the sound of him dying at tick 20 doesn't play anymore.  I already know how to do it, it is just a bit more daunting to first set up than most of my games.  Usually you can just play a sound when something happens, and you don't have to pay any attention to what has happened already, and you don't have to worry about tracking it so it will play again each time you revisit this place and time, lol!

Other projects, and real life, have been using up all of my free time, but I really would like to at least finish this game.  As news that might make a few people sad, I've decided that the game will only have 4 levels.  The 3rd level is partway completed, but I haven't looked at it in a while.  A huge portion of the game needs to be recoded before I'll be able to get the 3rd map finished, and I'm still trying to work with the theory to even find out if the 4th mission can be made!  It might very well be impossible to do what I want to do, but I haven't proven that to myself just yet.  If it works, it will be devilishly tricky and confusing, muhahahaha.  I'm not sure if I should give any hints away as to what the final mission will hold.  Oh, that reminds me, I also really want to finally add sound because I could then use voice actors.  There is a good deal of dialog in the final mission especially, and I think using a synth voice would take much of the enjoyment out of it.

That dialog bug with the doors will be fixed in the next release.  Actually, I was about to say I don't know when the next version will be released, but I do.  The door bug is especially annoying because it affects all of the doors in both maps, so I have quickly fixed it and posted Temporal version 1.3b.  Fixing the button messages is the only change, but for the moment, that should make life easier for everyone.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-05 16:23:36

Damn that post was long. Why is the game only 4 missions long?

Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.

2011-07-05 16:28:32 (edited by CAE_Jones 2011-07-05 16:34:15)

The door message fix is bound to make mission 2 much easier... I beat it by putting as many versions of myself on as many buttons at the same time as possible. lol

A version that has ticks pass automatically every second or so would be quite interesting, though I have to imagine the difficulty would be magnified considerably on both player and programming ends.

[edit] ... Heh. Now I'm imagining the Temporal character winding up stuck in a bio dome on the moon. big_smile big_smile big_smile [/edit]

Some of my games
Keep up to date by following @Jeqofire on twitter!
Ear Ninja?

Thumbs up

2011-07-05 16:34:16

Stewie, actually just last night I was answer that same question from my wife.  We were driving to her parents, talking about how I'm trying to figure out the last part in Temporal, and she wanted to know why I couldn't just keep adding missions.  I suppose I will try to answer the question in the same way I did with her.

If you've ever followed any of the Superman comics or shows, you'll notice that 80% of the time, the same exact thing happens.  Somehow Superman gets exposed to kryptonite, and must face his enemy in a weakened condition.  The other 20% of the time, he is facing an enemy that is also magically strong because they are from outer space as well.  They overplay these scenarios because they have to.  Superman is actually so over powered, that there really isn't a whole lot you can throw at him as far as challenges are concerned. 

In that same way, the guy in Temporal (I almost said his name, but you haven't learned that yet in the first 2 missions) is super freaking powerful!  Even without guns, flying, or invincibility... giving someone the ability to travel through time, turns out to be really useful.  Even with the limitations I've placed on the character, it's almost impossible to think up puzzles that can't be easily solved.  In my mind, a game starts to lose something when the same puzzles start repeating themselves, so I am trying to introduce something entirely new in each mission.  The problem, of course, is that there is a very limited number of ways to slow this guy down.  This is pretty much the reason I only intend to make 4 levels to this game.  If I went any further, I believe I would be thinning out the game with a lot of repeated content.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-05 16:37:12

Put him on the moon with Dingos, hawks, Pirahnas and kaman.

Temporal: Escape from Lunar Tech
smile

Some of my games
Keep up to date by following @Jeqofire on twitter!
Ear Ninja?

Thumbs up

2011-07-06 01:03:11

I suppose you could always make some of the missions smaller at the start. The learning curve looks fairly steep, if the walkthrough is to be trusted. I could probably figure it out fairly quickly, but not everyone is that way. Heh. My point is, you could satisfy those wanting more missions, in general, by having your main character deal with a less complex scenario at the start...but then that might mess with your contenuity and story a bit. Personally, I wouldn't mind taking a bite out of a game with only four levels; it's not a problem for me.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2011-07-06 01:39:30

I could make the existing maps a little easier, but yes, I think that might do more harm than good to the overall flow of the game.  As long as I make the 4 levels sufficiently difficult, and I give an interesting story, I think even a short game can be enjoyable.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-06 05:25:20

After making the 4 missions you should add that. It would have the same puzzles sure but it'd be funny. Maybe you'd have to kill psycho hawks and very agitated cats or something, it might add more puzzles cause animals could appear as ticks pass.

Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.

2011-07-06 07:57:35

hi,
I think if you complete the game, then this mini game is unlock.
this is my thinking about this idea.
:-)

This is not a signature.

2011-07-06 21:40:06

Well as many of you know, this past weekend was a holiday weekend in the USA.  With family barbecues, and stuff, I went pretty much the whole weekend without getting any opportunity to code.  I still feel like I'm trying to play catch-up with everything, so I wanted to say that real life is currently doing a good job of keeping me from working on my many projects!  This happens from time to time though, and I always bounce back when things calm down.

I haven't been able to sit down to really code, but I have been able to continue pondering how on earth I can get the last mission made in Temporal.  I'm tempted to explain how I'm stuck, so that someone else might have some ideas, but I'm also not sure if I should give away my plans for the final challenge.  Ruining the surprise isn't my only concern, since I may find it is impossible to actually code, and some people would have gotten their hopes up for nothing.  Arg, I just don't know.  Working these temporal problems out is very tricky, I've found!  Due to the jumping back and forth, working out the puzzles, or game AI is not exactly something you can just write down on paper or type into notepad.  I almost feel like I need a series of overlapping grids to work with, so that each layer could represent a tick in time.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up

2011-07-06 22:28:40

Thanks for all the thorough responses, Aprone, I really appreciate them just like others do!
My god, you're right. I know that programming fact about a small change easily bringing totally unexpected and undesirable consequences myself pretty well, although I am only coding in BGT, and you made me realize things that were completely eluding me, like the trickiness of implementing sounds into this game. So yeah, no wonder why it's so difficult and time-consuming to proceed with Temporal. I certainly understand and agree with your very true point about having only 4 missions. If they are done in a good (i.e. challenging) way, I for one will be satisfied. So I wish you the best of luck with this and othher projects, and hoping to see the two new missions rather sooner than later. :-D
And yeah, thanks for the door switch bug fix, that really helps a lot!
Lukas

Thumbs up

2011-07-15 18:44:37

I've just tried the game for the first time, and to be honest I'm totally confused in regards to messages. ) I'm told when I move that I have 3 messages, but what's the point of them?

Thanks.

Thumbs up

2011-07-15 18:54:24

use D, and F, to scroll through your messages.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up