In the past, I wanted a laptop with top-notch specs to handle AI and GPU-heavy software. But then I realized I could achieve this on a desktop, which would give me a more powerful machine without the weight and shorter battery life of a high-performance laptop. Now, I’m looking for a laptop with around 16GB of RAM, an Intel Core i7 or i9 processor, and no dedicated GPU. It’s essential that it supports Linux since I plan to run Linux on it.
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What is a good laptop, or is my theory about laptops incorrect? (Page 1 of 4)
AudioGames.net Forum → Off-topic room → What is a good laptop, or is my theory about laptops incorrect?
Posts: 1 to 25 of 95
#2 2024-03-23 07:21:18
I'm personally really curious about Framework. I'm waiting for an AMD refresh, but their current laptops would probably serve you quite well. If you want something cheaper, you can get one of the refurbished units with an 11th gen CPU at a significant discount.
Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.
#3 2024-03-23 11:35:39 (edited by defender 2024-03-23 11:44:10)
Isn't having a dedicated GPU kind of vital for offline AI workloads though?
Also, you're right, a desktop will give you significantly better specs for the same amount of money as a laptop, and it's also far easier to repair or upgrade even if you get someone else to do it. It will draw allot more power, probably run louder, and obviously can't be taken places though so it would depend on your use case.
Certain needs just aren't well served by a laptop. Can they do it? Sure, but not nearly as well. So you'll have to figure out if it's worth it to you. Sometimes people have a relatively low spec laptop that's still fast for web browsing, streaming, word processing ETC, and then do everything heavy like gaming, media creating/editing, offline AI, ETC on a desktop. Depends on what you really feel you need to get done on the go, and how okay you are with doing heavy workloads with allot less efficiency because of it.
#5 2024-03-24 00:00:00
#6 2024-03-24 02:54:42
@Grace
Oh sorry, I misunderstood that part.
#7 2024-03-24 03:56:45
and framework doesn't ship everywhere, not cheaply, and is very expensive from what I've scene, it's cool if you're a guy that wants to keep jumping around changing parts every 3 months or something but if not it's just a waste of money.
business laptops is what you want, like lenovo thinkpad, t14 might have what you want, they have a lot of cpu configurations usually, I think mostly intel now, core I7 is there if I remember correctly, but no core I9, you probably can only find that in gaming laptops, and those always come with a deticated gpu.
and just search for net reviews when you find a laptop you want to buy, it usuallys shows what negatives/posatives, and check more than one, one confusing thing that happened to me when I wanted to buy one is how confusing it was because of how laptops with a model can be, like, it has multiple configurations and sometimes generations, so look out for that.
you can even just search something like "best aptops 2024" and check things from there.
#8 2024-03-24 05:03:19
@7, Even though Framework is expensive, it seems like they're worth the investment.
As parts fail, you can just replace that part and continue using your laptop unlike most computers where it's very hard if not impossible to replace certain components.
I've heard Framework is cheaper if you just order the board and choose to bring all your own stuff.
#9 2024-03-24 07:29:15
Either Framework or System76 is what I'd go for. No experience with Framework but I've heard great things so maybe I'll try it one day. System76 is fantastic though, very few complaints.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
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#10 2024-03-24 09:02:45 (edited by Chris 2024-03-24 18:12:04)
@5 I'm aware, but I don't want to buy a laptop in 2024 with a CPU from 2023. I'll wait for the next hardware refresh.
I love the idea of a modular laptop. I wouldn't touch Lenovo laptops with a 100 foot pole, particularly after the SuperFish bullshit. Plus, how much do you want to bet their machines are very difficult, if not impossible to upgrade and/or replace components?
Framework machines are cheaper if you buy the individual components, which is what I plan to do. I can get help assembling the laptop, and I love the idea of hot swapping ports. It's essentially the laptop version of a desktop, and I love it!
Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.
#11 2024-03-24 10:36:51
Personally, I find business laptops to be underpowered for the price and next to impossible to repair or upgrade. Battery life, weight, and sound level tends to be better though...
#12 2024-03-24 11:07:03
@8 and @10
you do realize that most people can't, or don't really care, to replace parts right? Good for you if you do, but in my opinion if my laptop became old enough I'll just buy a new one instead of replacing each piece which can possiblly break something software related or keep fumbling around with whatever, a newer one just works for most folks
also, what's superFish?
@11
Dunno. I bought this yoga 6 and while there are things I dislike like the fan being very unreliable when charging because it gets hot, it's mostly fine otherwise, good battery life and thin and lightweight, unlike my older windows laptop that felt like I'm holding a grenade launcher, and amd ryzen 7730u seems to be perfect for most things, I can't even get it to 100% even if I try, 16GB ram is fine for almost everything and it only went beyond that when I had the weird memory leak issue, otherwise it rarely goes above, and when I want I can upgrade the 512GB storage to 1TB, but won't need that as well, also, I don't know, but how you say they are overpriced? They scene fine to me, sure a desktop is way cheaper for the specs but I think it's a hardware being expensive problem, not a business laptops being expensive problem
#13 2024-03-24 17:15:17
@12, I dunno, I mean I wouldn't call this laptop a business laptop and if I set it to the battery saving profile I can easily get 8-10 hours of battery life out of it.... The fan has also never been an issue for me.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
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#14 2024-03-24 17:23:27
what's your laptop? If it's system76 or whatever well, probably doesn't ship in here, that's the issue, everyone keeps rambling about how those new things are great but they're actually not that mainstream, you only get them easily if you're in the US/UK/canada/whatever
I found windows to be very unreliable for battery tbh, it's far too unstable with it, dunno about linux, but when I had my mac battery was the last of my worries, I just find it curious as why, it's not just apple m processers, even at the days of intel it was, getting it off-topic I know, but if it will require a long discussion tell me to make another topic for it.
#15 2024-03-24 18:01:16 (edited by Chris 2024-03-24 18:14:48)
SuperFish was malware Lenovo bundled with their laptops for a while in 2014 and 2015. While it's true you could uninstall it or clean install Windows, the point is the company was bundling malware with new machines.
Framework is cheaper if you buy the individual components. I can get help assembling the laptop, and I love the idea of hot swapping ports. Framework is the desktop version of a laptop, and it's fantastic! It puts the user in full control of the hardware, which is how it should be.
Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.
#16 2024-03-24 21:43:35 (edited by Ethin 2024-03-24 21:49:59)
@14, I think System76 ships anywhere, it's just the cost, which can be prohibitive for some. They aren't "new" -- I think they've been around for many years, probably a decade if not a quarter of 2. But yes, even their intro computer -- the lemur pro (which is at a newer generation than the one I have) -- is pretty pricy starting at $1399.00. (I remember the days when it was only $799...) Though the Pangolin is $100 cheaper if that means anything... Never actually tried that one.
Edit: I consider the lemur pro the intro computer if only because from what I've seen it's the go-to computer if you want portability. Crazy long battery life is just one of it's perks, other than being insanely lightweight.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
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#17 2024-03-25 00:34:12
System 76/Framework seem extremely overpriced just to replace every possible component in the machine. A modestly upgradable machine where you can upgrade the ram/SSD is fine for 99.99% of people. When the board/CPU etc fail, you'll probably want a new laptop anyway, and it is cheaper just to do that. If you want a high end processor, you need to buy a machine with a GPU. A laptop is a package, not like a desktop. Those gaming machines come with an I9 14900HX, which can provide insane performance. There is an enormous difference between an I7 H class CPU and i9 HX CPU. If you want a machine at a reasonable price compared to specs, you can get the new Eluktronics Max15 with 14900HX which according to the benchmarks they did beats the Titan 18 HX in CPU speed. Or, they'll have preorders open next week with a Hydroc 16, which is liquid cooled, with a 4080 or 4090, and is even faster, which is wild.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."
#18 2024-03-25 02:07:59
@17, I don't see how either of them are overpriced. Sure you can replace all of the components (certain ones are soldered on system76 laptops) but that doesn't mean you have to, just that you have the option, and I'd trust System76 given the incredibly good reliability I've gotten from them and the universal OS support that they have (because their systems don't come with Windows by default so you avoid all that BS).
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
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#19 2024-03-25 02:23:43
System76 solders components? Ewww! Which ones?
Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.
#20 2024-03-25 03:05:45
18, they are drastically more expensive than comparably priced laptops. And sure you don't have to strip the laptop, but you're specificly paying a large premium to be able to do so. If not doing it, that money is better spent on a more specd machine with higher specs and native Windows drivers etc I feel.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."
#21 2024-03-25 03:51:23 (edited by Ethin 2024-03-25 03:55:48)
@19, the only one that I believe has soldered components is the Lemur Pro, just because it's so small, and to my knowledge only the RAM is soldered. Maybe the CPU too, but again that's most likely due to how small the board is. Once you get to a certain size of machine you don't really have a choice but to solder things.
@20, and why would you want a machine with native drivers over what system76 offers? I have system76 windows drivers on this machine but I most definitely don't need them. With windows everything just works out of the box. With Linux it gets a bit more complex since you need a couple extra tools for charge thresholds and stuff but other than that again it just works. The firmware setup tool is insanely simple:
Boot default
One-time boot
Change boot order
Secure boot configuration
Firmware information
That's literally the entire firmware setup utility. You get not only repairability (which is something your not going to find in many mainstream laptops these days) but you also get open-source firmware and universal OS compatibility. Frankly I'd be surprised if you could find a computer that offers you a 4.8 Ghz Ultra 7 155U processor with 12 cores and 14 threads, 56 GB of RAM (or more), ,and up to 8 TB of NVMe storage (or even M.2 storage) for under $1600 at the cheapest, and that's if your lucky. (The computer I have is a few generations older but still, even back when I got it, you would've been hard-pressed to find a reputable manufacturer that would give you the specs of this machine with a quote of under $2000.) I can see where your coming from with less-powerful machines, but if you want to do stuff that is power-intensive forking over this kind of money is really all you can do. There's a certain price point below which you need to start questioning the integrity of where your getting the computer from, because at that point even building the computer would cost a ton of money. Especially when you get NVMe involved, because NVMe is not cheap.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
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#22 2024-03-25 04:55:28 (edited by Ghost 2024-03-25 04:56:53)
21, you had stated on another thread the firmware drivers didn't work correctly with Windows, to set charging levels etc. If those firmware features can't be set in Windows that would be a deal braker for many here. Those features can be configured outside of bios in control center software for many gaming machines. There are very good reasons to install manufacturer drivers, as they can be custom made for the machine. As for the price, you can easily get gaming machines with a Core i9 14900HX, or 13900HX and plenty of ram, and an external GPU for below or slight above that price. The HX processor and the superior cooling would provide better performance. The HX I9 has 24 cores, 32 threads, and goes up to 5.8 GHZ. Some of these gaming machines even come with a liquid cooler, so you can push it even harder.
The crazy thing is once Intel goes to 2nm with Arrow lake, whith the chassis these companies use for good cooling, as heat will go down as a result of the more advanced process node, we should be able to push them insanely hard.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."
#23 2024-03-25 05:06:27
@22, you can't set charge thresholds on windows. But the charge thresholds are for telling the system when it should start/stop charging. That's all they do. You don't need to use that feature and it's entirely optional. The Lemur Pro isn't meant to be a hardcore gaming machine, though you can push it pretty hard. It's meant to be an ultra-portable laptop. Laptops at that same price point with dGPUs and all that have far less battery life and most of their control panels aren't even accessible to begin with (at least for the hardcore gaming machines anyway). If you wanted a hardcore gaming machine though, you probably wouldn't want to do it on a laptop anyhow.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
My Github
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#24 2024-03-25 09:51:41
@23
how far does the battery really stand. Can you give me a link for the one with the best battery life overall? My lenovo yoga 6 claimes it will last for 15 hours on a full charge, but in actuality it just does 7 hours if I'm not having lots of apps opened, and sure the battery size for that one is 13 larger than my lenovo laptop, but my laptop has an amd processer, which is far more efficient than intel all the time, don't worry about the price, just give me the best, as long as it's not $4000 lol.
I'm curious though, why wouldn't they, for example, let you customize the battery a bit? IF they added an option of a battery of 100 lecium or whatever that thing's called, it's going to pack quite the punch, or is it size limiting problems?
also, that thin system76 you mentioned, does it have a deticated or integrated gpu? It sorta matters for games, and it's normal cooling right? Not liquid? IS there a laptop that has liquid cooling? One of the things I don't like about windows laptops is how hot they can get, which in tern damages the battery and becomes uncomfortable while it's at it, it seems windows laptops can't be strong and be fanless like macbook airs, so maybe better cooling?
#25 2024-03-25 15:05:46
@24, either the pangolin or Lemur are what you want for longest battery life. (They have a third ultraportable called the Darter Pro but it's out of stock right now.) The Lemur at least has an iGPU, as does the Pangolin, but both of the iGPUs are actually quite good for what you get (i.e., my Lemur Pro 10 (which is a few generations old) has Intel Xe graphics, and I think the latest does too). Battery life is pretty much exactly as advertised. Even on Windows I can easily squeeze 8 hours out of it if I switch it to the power saving profile, though I had to create that on my own because for some weird reason Windows didn't do that. On Linux I could probably get 9-11 hours out of it -- Linux is far, far less harsh on the system than Windows is. Which is purely the fault of Windows because it could be far less resource intense if it wanted to, but it isn't.
They let you customize the battery in terms of charge thresholds but not in terms of larger and larger batteries because the case can't hold larger batteries. The battery they have in there is pretty damn good, but fitting an even larger one in there might risk damaging the components in the current case (or destroying the battery), and that's assuming it even fits to begin with. They don't let you customize the charge thresholds on Windows because that requires special ACPI support, and I just don't think the team knows how to write windows drivers for something like that. And to be fair to them, windows driver development is complicated, so yeah, I don't hold it against them.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." — Charles Babbage.
My Github
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