252, nope, it's pretty much your regular keyboard. There's control, then the fn key, then super/windows, left alt, space bar, right alt, right control, and then the arrow keys/page up/page down. The page up/down and arrows are tightly packed such that the page up key is above the left arrow and the page down is above the right arrow, with the up arrow of course being right above the down arrow. My (only) complaint is that home, end, print screen and delete are all in the function row, after f12, and the keyboard has no insert key.

Apple has stated that the Apple Silicon Macs are capable of running Windows natively, but it's up to Microsoft to make it happen. Microsoft has said and done nothing about this, though I wonder if it's because the Qualcomm exclusivity deal is still in progress? I thought it was supposed to end at the beginning of 2024, but maybe it's the end?

@56
there's a huge difference, very, very huge, first of, there are hundrids on hundrids of devices that are $300 or $400 cheaper than framework/system76 while having the same specs or more, while, they, *, run windows, *, macos is exclusive, and no matter how you deny it otherwise, macs are the strongest laptops in the planet for the prices of under $3000, funny enough go buy the base macbook air and go compair it with the same price any laptop, it might have more storage and ram and I know you're angry freaks of control and you'll shout in outrage for not being able to replace every component, including the color, how dare they not allow us to change the color, wawa wawa, but either way apple silicon is monstrous even the normal model, and there is no computer that can compeet with mac devices and their battery life, none, windows, linux, all of them are far too unstable and not exactly built for efficiency, macs are, same for duribility, all windows devices I touched, no exception, tended to creeck, something falling off after a while, or something else, mac devices never did that unless if you dropped them on the floor or something.
And I mean, fine, system76 and framework are so great, they can last me for 5 or 10 years without buying a new one just buying the newer parts, but why, why do I want it? Why shouldn't I just save the extra $300 I'll pay for it to just get a laptop with more specs, or maybe for food, or getting a new headphone, or anything? Investment? Sure, but what is it to say I will be satisfied with it in 5 or 10 years? Maybe it got scrached so much, maybe I just hate how it looks, maybe the fan isn't for me, maybe and maybe and maybe, easy way around it most of the time is that you'll buy a new laptop when the one gets out of committion, and what does garentee that a new tech appears in 5-10 years that cannot be simplly inserted in your laptop? And the fact that rarely anyone normal heard of framework or system76 heard of the idea doesn't sound like it will show promising future, what if the company decided they're not getting enough money and closed? Or decided to stop producing spare parts? I understand wanting to be able to change ram and memory, in fact I've been searching for it when buying my current laptop, but you folks are going a bit, overboard? Ethin sounds like he doesn't exactly care much about every single piece but the rest?
also you want a very solid argument? Fine, give me a fanless windows laptop that can compile say, synthizer under 15 seconds. Because yes, my old m1 air does that without even getting warm, maybe it did get warm, but it certainly didn't get hot, I am certain of it.

I have a Mac. Putting my hatred for Apple as a company aside, I know that, on the whole, Macs are indeed very good computers. That's not the point. The point is, you're encouraging people not to buy one thing because that thing is really expensive, but then encouraging them to get a different thing that's much more expensive.

Also, on the visual side of things, why should I care about the color, and why do you care about how a computer looks? I'm blind, and so are you.

@59
Yes but I was saying if you want macos, mac is the only choice, but if you want windows, there are a lot of them, and recommending system76 or framework to every random guy that asks for one is sorta counterproductive because they might not really get a use of it's great features or realize why it's a good thing or really care about it, as I said, argument about your average user.
the color thing was a sarcastic comment to how you want so much control for everything it sounds frankly ridiculous to my brain lol, sorry had to get it out there, it was nagging me for a while.
@60
sorry, when I said windows laptops I didn't specifically mean laptops coming with windows by default, yes I knew system76 comes with popOS or linux by default, but when I say windows I mean to generalize for any laptop that isn't mac, to make it easier to understand.
yes, mayb eI'm sending my point in a weird way, ok, look at it like this. I'm actually really curious and I might check system76 because apparently it does ship to my country unlike framework, but why I was really irritated is how most people here forgot and keep ignoring the fact that there are other laptops and just because system76 and framework offer great customization options they're the only choice, they're good, yes, but don't give the impression that just because they exist the rest are trash. I was giving all the fault points of both to try to drill the idea that your average consumer doesn't necessarily need it, some people don't even care about specs beyond storage, or don't even know anything about them beyond just knowing that having very low in generation x or y is bad or good.

@62, good points. Apple doesn't document literally anything in regards to their hardware. They haven't tried to implement preventative measures to prevent someone from getting Linux or Windows running but they also haven't done much, if anything, to actually help in that process.

@64
yeah to be clear I didn't say windows laptops can't do that. I said no *fanless* windows laptop can do that. My windows laptop can do it in like 30 seconds maybe? And it's amd r7730u, but I said for a fanless laptop, that's insanely impressive, because it's quite, comfortable, light, thin, and fast, really fast at that.
and yeah, you're forced to do arm, No tew ways about it last I checked, which makes it not quite the monster it is in macos, and with NVDA, it is noticable.

@55, I've heard the same thing.
@64, Your Windows VM has to be ARM on the new Macs.
Things may have changed, but last I heard you had to be part of the Windows Insider program to get the ARM builds.

Given how fast the world is changing I don't personally think buying hardware that'll last is the right move unless you have tons of money to throw at it.  I mean in terms of system specs, not in terms of it literally falling apart because it's fragile.

I mean if it's a tower and you're a coder or something and you can upgrade components fine, you can probably get 5-7 years out of it if you put down the money, but with AI coming and ARM taking over and everything going on...idk, throwing say $3000 at a laptop or some shit isn't what I'd personally do right now.  At least, I wouldn't if I had a choice--I am a coder, what I work on professionally takes 10-20 minutes to build, so...well.  But if I could have the choice I wouldn't.  Fortunately work foots the bill for the work laptop.

@70
As I think I said sometimes gaming laptops work out but in general it is easy to put that giant list on paper but that doesn't mean any of it is quality and the sort of person who buys such a machine isn't looking for portable or battery life anywayj.  ANd there's no easy way to tell as the consumer unless someone else you know has one.

I actually got the Rp17 from Eluktronics it is a gaming machine, but a budget one, but got it because it was only AMD machine, and I didn't want Intel.  But it is quality, but for gaming PC I think it is worth going over $2000 budget to get a metal chassis.  The plastic can flex or brake when dropped around the edges.
70, but that is why you  have reviews, you get geekbench scores, or other benchmarks, a whole lot of info from reviews, even the audio quality.  So I'd look at several reviews of something before butying it. I did this with my current machine TBH and the machine is as the reviews said it would be.