2021-03-05 21:18:33

@Luel, C cleaner did indeed eat one of my early saves, after which I made the cookie an exception, so it was fine.
It was first NVDA deciding it wouldn't read the text at all, even with internet explorer, and then, even when I switched to Supernova, internet explorer deciding not to display the text anymore big_smile.

So, here's to hoping this new mod works out, heck, if it's got a decent browser interface, the potential is there for it to be even easier to play than the original,especially if they add some of the fun extra stuff that got added in expanded versions like weapon crafting.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-05 21:34:36 (edited by Luel 2021-03-05 21:36:41)

I had pretty much similar adventures with CCleaner removing saves and NVDA not reading the text in Internet Explorer.
I used Firefox to play at first, but then NVDA stopped reading the text or Firefox blocked the use of Flash extension and I switched to Internet Explorer until it, too, stopped working.
Regarding the mod, I think the author wants to implement the original game first.
Not sure if stuff from other mods will be implemented.
For now I recommend Corruption Of Champions 2.

2021-03-07 14:13:49

Good morning, @luek and @dark.
Well, the current verssion of the game is playable, in the sense that we can read its text and most of the buttons.
However, a good idea is to contact the devs and ask them to make the minigames skipable, just like they did in coc2. The game alsso needs to have its buttons labelled.

2021-03-08 07:44:03 (edited by Luel 2021-03-08 07:45:30)

I am still wondering why the game works for you and stopped working for me.
Could uninstalling Flash Player be the reason?
I think not, but who knows?
Does someone know an accessible program that still can play Flash files?
I welcome any ideas of what to try.

2021-03-08 09:31:40

what screen reader are you using anyway caio?
For me, many of the buttons had the same label but would do different things, making it really hard to know which thing did what.

2021-03-08 12:00:29

@defender I'm using nvda.
I navigate using the arrows and the tab key, just like a web page.

2021-03-08 12:05:13

@defender
The game isn't fully accessible but I can for example start a game and create a character without any problem.

2021-03-08 15:08:01 (edited by Luel 2021-03-08 15:18:04)

Yes, the game should read like a webpage, which it did for me until recently.
Now I am unable to enter browse mode in NVDA.
Some buttons are unlabelled unfortunately, but I eventually managed to remember what did what.
So, for me it was like this:
In the main game, after the location description two buttons did nothing and I have no idea what they were for.
After that was main menu, with buttons to start a new game and save and load the game.
After the menu was data, with saving and loading.
After that was character appearance, Mailbox and finally, the list of perks.
After that the button to level up if applicable and buttons to read back a few fragments of the previous text.
I think that was all from the unlabelled buttons, give or take.
Buttons like exits, NPCs, Storage, Inventory were always labelled.
Another thing not accessible is the Codex.
I always had to use OCR in NVDA to select a topic.
The fact that NVDA recognized only part of the object did not help.
And some Codex entries are required to read if a player wants to use some questionable items, or enter some locations.
The worst part, in my opinion, are minigames, because we are unable to pass them without cheating.

2021-03-09 14:55:58

@luel
I agree. Well, I think we3 need to gatter support for making this game accessible.
COC2 is fully playable, to the point where even the minigames are skipable.
I don't think it would be too difficult to do the same with TITS.

2021-03-09 17:55:06

Well they do have a discord and a comment section for each new update, so if the three of us got together and started (politely) asking about it now and then, keeping the pressure up without bombarding them, it would probably help.

2021-03-09 19:15:11

@defender
Could you send the link to their discord, please?
From what I saw, their foruns aren't too accessible.

2021-03-09 22:14:41 (edited by Luel 2021-03-09 22:15:28)

We could ask in comments after the next update about the port appears.
I think Dark asked about accessibility some time ago and was told no.
But that was regarding Flash version, so maybe something changes in the new port.
So far there was no concrete information about when it be released.
I will probably wait until they release something playable.
Or would asking now be better?
Here is the link to their Discord:
https://www.fenoxo.com/discordchat/

2021-03-10 01:07:42

@luel
I think asking now would work.. Better sooner than later, I think.. And new port? What will be the game's new port? I didn't know about that.

2021-03-10 05:02:15 (edited by Dark 2021-03-10 06:44:23)

As regards trials in tainted space, yeah, I was told accessibility wouldn't be happening, but if it's already in Coc 2 then there might be reason for asking again.
on the plus side, I had a look at the mod which luel mentioned in post 24.
It looks really awesome, actually slightly easier to use than the original with it's screen reader reader mode, nothing clunky about perk choice etc.

I don't know how incomplete it is, since when I was poking around, I could get up to finding amelie and the town ruins as well as Whitney's farm no problem.
The only thing which did strike me as a little weird was that I unlocked other explorable places by just using the explore button over and over again, where as before I thought you needed to be a certain level to unlock the desert and the mountain.

I'm going to update the database with info about the mod, and will have a look at Coc 2 as well, since if it's got a screen reader mode and skipable minigames that would be a great reason to add it.

Edit: Okay have updated the CoC db page, plus from the looks of it, the mod is pretty complete, I was even able to try out some of the alternative character names listed in the CoC wiki which seemed to work.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-10 06:51:27

Do keep in mind Dark, the switch to Javascript gives us a great chance to get some mor accessibility.  So this would be the time to put the feelers out.

2021-03-10 07:16:19

True, if you hear anything as regards Trials in tainted space,let me know, when I tried, the constant need to count unlabeled buttons, which didn't always seem to be in the same place made the game less than friendly to play.

I'm actually really interested in where Adev's CoC1 mod will go, since the developer mentioned something about adding more content to the game.

Back in 19 when I was playing CoC, there was a fascinating looking expansion which included things like weapon crafting, which would be cool, since in a lot of ways in CoC, it's the world and all the wonderfully weerd things you can do that interested me more than the erotica, although I didn't really like the way that levelling started to take quite large amounts of xp once you passed level 15 or so.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-10 09:13:02 (edited by defender 2021-03-10 09:26:17)

Well if you want to be proactive Dark, and given your valuable knowledge and solid feedback on other games I think you could be of great help, maybe you should open a thread about screen reader improvements in the future javascript build on the Fenoxo forums? I'd be happy to contribute...
I know you don't use discord, but for anyone who does and would like to (respectfully!) suggest this there, try this link.
https://discord.gg/7bnwmRTDnF
You can also comment on new patches on the Fenoxo Blog

2021-03-10 09:37:27

@caio: developers are working on remaking the game in another engine, since Flash stopped being supported.
It is the javascript port.
Regarding accessibility, I admit I am unsure how to bring up the topic.
I do not have any programming knowledge and have no idea what could or could not be made accessible.

2021-03-10 12:25:08

@luel
I honestly believe the current system can be made accessible. I mean the game's text is read easilly by the screenrader, all we need is to have the buttons labelled and a skip minigame buttona nd we'd be good to go.

2021-03-11 06:41:51 (edited by Dark 2021-03-11 06:44:18)

@Defender I looked at the old topics concerning Trials in tainted space accessibility from a few years ago. Unfortunately, Fenoxo literally refused to discuss the matter since he stated it would take rewriting the UI. I sent him a private message at that time explaining that adding a few button labels was hardly a rewrite, and he never replied.

Given that I'm seeing a large amount of access related discussions as regards the CoC mod and CoC 2, (the CoC mod topic even links to someone bringing up the matter of Trials in tainted space accessibility on the Fenoxo forum), I'm not sure how much in this case the issue is about developer awareness of the problem, and how much about developer unwillingness to actually do anything.

Generally speaking in the past when I've had this sort of negative reception from developers, it's a sign to move on to something else, especially with the great work that people are putting in to the CoC mod and CoC 2 at the moment.

CoC 2 is my top priority as regards text games now, since it needs a db entry, I'll also admit I'm also tempted to replay CoC 1 and see if I can finally defeat Lethice, since previously I got past the second dungeon, acquired several lovers and was level 15, but didn't quite get to taking on the demon queen herself.

Again, if there are any indications that Fenoxo's attitude has changed, that would be awesome, so let us know, and if I get around to giving Trials in Tainted space a look over I'll put my ore in on the forum.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-11 09:26:43 (edited by Dark 2021-03-11 09:27:08)

Okay, just to be fair, I had a look at the trials in tainted space version.
The problem however, is that at the moment, because of running with Adobi air, even basic text reading and finding the buttons is pretty problematic, indeed the game is far less accessible now, than it was back in 2018 when I was first making enquiries, heck I got stuck in the option screen big_smile.

This unfortunately means that until a java script port with at least the same access that the old version used to have turns up, knowing what in the game is problematic access that could be fixed, EG unlabelled buttons, vs what in the game is just adobe air playing silly beggars isn't easy to determine.

On the plus side as I said, given the great work that's going in to making CoC2 accessible, it's entirely possible that for the new Javascript port, accessibility can be built from the ground up, EG correct button labels and a skip button as Caio describes, assuming of course that Fenoxo is willing to play ball on this one.

In the mean time, I've downloaded CoC 2 and will see about playing it through enough to create a db page.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-11 10:47:46

As I said, Trials In Tainted Space used to work for me and it still works for caio.
The game was possible to read as a webpage.
I have no clue what happened with it.
@Dark, how are you going to play COC 1 again?
Do you have a reliable way to run Flash files?
I would like to play it again and TITS if possible.
Good luck with COC 2.
Feel free to ask in case of any questions.

2021-03-11 11:40:37 (edited by Dark 2021-03-11 12:42:35)

@Luel, Yeah, the old version of Trials in tainted space did work like a webpage, albeit one with some unlabeled buttons, now though it's more problematic. Sometimes nvda b will read all the text, sometimes the screen review works, sometimes you can tab between buttons, but it seemed less than consistent, which is why I'm not sure about accessibility testing on the Adobi air version, because in it's current state things like clicking on on screen hotspots would be nearly impossible, but wouldn't have been previously.

With Coc 1, everything I can gather suggests that the adev mod is pretty dam complete, or at least having a quick look at the game and reading the release notes mentioned in the above thread suggests as much. I was able to explore,  find several places, see several unique encounters, engage in combat, get cuddly with Amaly, , undergo transformations, even the names for pregenerated characters mentioned on the Coc wiki seemed to work.

The one stupid thing I did was forget to save big_smile.

The only miner issue content wise is apparently with the character Giacomo, who couldn't be included in the mod for some licensing reason, though apparently some scenes which cover his part in the story have been added, and so hopefully the items he sold like scholar's tea will be available elsewhere, though I've also dug out my old login info for the fenoxo forums and asked about this on the thread for that mod, so we'll see.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-11 20:05:10

Okay, CoC2 has a db page, Find it here.

If there's any major info which people who have played more of CoC2 think should be included on the page to make new player's lives easier, let me know.

Now I need to decide whether to continue my game of CoC2 (I've just recruited Brent), or make another assault on Lethice with the original CoC mod.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-03-11 20:18:26 (edited by defender 2021-03-11 20:18:57)

I found that in COC2, using JAWS made for less spam, and putting a placemarker above the portion of the screen where text usually appears was also helpful.  There are also some worthwhile settings for VI users.