2020-05-24 06:06:31

Hmm. Interesting. First, the phrase you may wish to use is No rights Reserved, as I do believe that is the tagline for Creative Commons zero/public domain licensing. As for the excerpt of that contract you presenting, given that it seems to be a seperated list, seperated by commas, could CP fall under a product or service that is not Nintendo's? I am having trouble seeing anything in that language's mark-up that says it has to meet any additional requirements. We should also be careful, as due to all this anyways, we've long since fallen through the ice on the matter of should have known in the event this does become an issue. On that note, though, 150 does make a good point in that if this was to become an issue, chances are the webmasters would be contacted before more pressing legal actions were  taken.

I have a website now.

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2020-05-24 10:01:47

@150 there's one problem here though. CP's sounds are only packed, not encrypted. This means that anyone with either the bgt pack extractor, or enough programming knowledge to write an extracting script of their own (the required functions are right there in the function reference) can unpack the sounds from the data file and do what they wish with them. There is no key protecting them.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

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2020-05-24 11:57:26

+1 to 150

2020-05-24 13:52:19

There's also the issue that the music files, encrypted though they are, are not similarly obscured by other sounds. Dozens of them are pirated. The game could probably be taken down with the pirated music assets alone.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-05-24 16:12:49 (edited by Nocturnus 2020-05-24 16:17:57)

Alright, I'll bite, as Jayde said elsewhere.  :d
@151, Thanks for that one.  I'll remember no rights reserved.  I wrote all rights rejected as I personally rejected and waved all my rights to my own writing and basically stated do as you will with it.  Still, that does make it sound like I'm saying reject rights to legal content, which is not what I'm saying.  I appreciate the correction but will leave it there to showcase, once again, just how other people can help me even as I help others.
@152, the same is true of just about any mainstream game.  Programs have been written to extract sound from many, particularly older titles, and some of those sounds have found their way onto youtube videos.  The fact is that anything assembled can be disassembled.  More to the point though, as I said in 150, there are paid products that already provide sounds very accessibly from within their folder structure, not encrypted or even with an ounce of thought toward the idea of hiding them.  To extract the sounds, as you say, the general consumer/gamer has to go out of their way to obtain something called the pack extractor, or code yet another product.  That is clearly an issue with the user and not the developer.
@153, thanks.  I'm doing my best to remain as unbiased as usual.  I can't do all the research on my own though; I have a wife and kids.  I'm sure there's more I can dig up on all the subject under discussion, but I can honestly say that for the time being I've done my best and given you all something to run with.  It'll be up to you guys to cary the ball from here on out.  Use it wisely and tread on legal waters for the sake of this community.
@154, here again, you have to take steps to get that done.  You have to make sure stereomix is enabled, something which does not happen on many machines by default nowadays.  You also have to make sure you set up audio recording software to record from stereomix.  Yes, these are easy matters, but they're still steps you have to take, much like recording music from a radio station from a cassette player in the 90's.  the quality is also not ensured, meaning that while you will end up with a copy of the track if you take said steps, your copy will not entirely match the track in question.
All that being said, I see what you're getting at here, but once again I freely confess I just can't fully stand behind it all given the overall gravity of the situation.  To fully excecute what you're suggesting you're going to have to put a ton, probably most of the database on the burner right now.  I feel like you're placing to much responsibility on yourself and the panel.  It's up to the users and the developers to figure out how to wisely use products and services.  This is why user licenses exist and why consumers should make themselves aware of what they're getting into when they go about tampering with said products and services when they use them.  Cautioning people and developers praticularly is one thing, but threatening to pull the plug on them and baby them and hold their hand does not teach them how to face consequences in the real world.  As soon as you find out CP is being pursued as an illegal product by companies wanting their royalties or some other such matter, then you can certainly pull the plug on the product and say "We tried to tell you."
For the time being, however, there are far too many games in question that have engaged in, at the very least, questionable practices over the years as I pointed out in 150.  The question before you that you should heavily be asking is, how far are you willing to go, and what for, precisely?  It's one thing to want to steer the website clear of legal issues, and I think you've done a commendable job.  On the other hand, what if it seriously means you have to get rid of a myriad of entries in the database because, A, developers are not around and will not change the way their games have been coded to meet up to a set of standards, B, some of the sounds have been miraculously proven to be illegally used even in paid products and or, C, there is some other legal issue we just haven't even considered, much as was the case with this issue we are trying to tackle at present, which was not an issue throughout the 10 years I've been out here?:  Should we then treat every single game as suspect from now on because it has sounds that sound all too familiar?  If that is the case, I think less people will be likely to download something because they'll always be afraid of getting into trouble for doing so, or you'll see way less entries in the database and less people willing to develop because the steps required to submit an entry will be much more stringent than they are at present.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-05-24 16:51:49

+1 to post 155.

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2020-05-24 22:04:10 (edited by Zarvox 2020-05-24 22:05:44)

some of the music in cp is remixes pulled from youtube, so I guess in one way that is a loophole, but they are also not giving credit to those who made the remixes. And thinking more as I write, that might even be worse since those small creators are not going to copyright their work, it is a simple remix, and one based from something else at that. Obviously, the cp team isn't goign around saying, oh this person has a remix, since they don't have copyright let's use it. They just want to use it because it sounds cool. But still. Also, why are they using horrible horrible quality tracks? If you are going to pirate, get the best quality you can find!

I'm probably not making much sense in this post. Fuck English and my inability to use it affectively.

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2020-05-24 22:45:12

Nocturnis, I actually agree with your overarching point that we may not be able to process absolutely everything, and while it might be morally correct and/or legally correct, it might be more hassle than it's worth to exclude absolutely everything that has even one pirated asset. This, too, is why I'm not chomping at the bit to tear the database apart.

My view, both as an individual and as an admin, however, is that Crazy Part is a done deal. Its creator willingly used copyrighted assets in order to cash in on the publicity of previously existing series, which means that any attempt at fair use goes pretty much out the window. No permission was sought or granted for the use of these assets. And whether or not they're encrypted, they're still being used in bad faith and against known copyright. so for me, Crazy Party is still a slam dunk. A few other things might be as well.

For me, thist absolutely does mean that I think it's time we really tried to thrash this out as a staff team again, particularly as Pragma rejected a chance to update his sounds and music even when told that the community was willing to put in the work. What it does not mean is that every game with even one pirated asset will face immediate takedown. Copyright issues are sticky, and piracy is generally not something we want to push or allow on the forums for obvious reasons, but that does not, as you pointed out, mean we have to burn down the whole database.

Now, with that said, can I make a plea to all future developers? Please, for the love of crumbcake, try very, very hard to use your own assets, or to legally obtain the right to use the assets you do put into your products. If we know that piracy is not going to be tolerated in this community, and we still want to make great audio games, let's make those two realizations work together and stop accepting sub-par standards where it comes to other people's material.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-11-19 23:17:12 (edited by mjonsson1986 2020-11-19 23:18:09)

this is why i plan to leave this forum. this stupid rules. and the blocked words you cant search for. try to search for windows xp for example

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2020-11-20 00:40:02

What the fuck? Did you really bring back a 5 Month old topic to say that? I mean, I'm contributing to the pointlessness myself, but I actually thought someone brought it back to say something of importance, but meh.

Who has any time for the letter h?

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2020-11-20 00:49:18

It's not blocked, it's saying that because it would turn up too many damn results. The forum search sucks ass and always has.

Join me in eliminating BGT from the forum.
It's very easy, if you see a topic about BGT, simply don't reply to it.
If you're thinking about creating a topic about BGT, just don't.
Doing these things will cause all such topics to sink to oblivion.

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2020-11-20 00:53:05

@mjonsson1986
Which rules do you have a problem with.  Right now it just sounds as if you're complaining about the fact that there are any rules at all.

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2020-11-20 12:19:26 (edited by connor142 2020-11-20 12:20:11)

You know, I usually don't care much about thread necromancy, and I don't understand why it's hated on so much here. But out of all the topics on this forum that are filled with good content and sound advice, did you really have to bring back *this* one? That's like someone going to the toilet, flushing it, then scooping out all the dump with a really long scooper after the toilet is flushed, then taking another dump on it.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

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2020-11-20 17:49:17

Thumbs up at 163.  I was going to ask if you'd ever tried that in theory to come up with such a spot on analogy, but I don't know if I really want to know the answer... smile

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-11-20 19:12:07

@164 nope, but I do tend to watch thunderbirds101 video series, like Microsoft Sam reads funny Windows errors. You get... ideas like that here.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

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2020-11-20 19:25:08

Yeah and the point of reviving this was?

2020-11-20 19:55:04

Lol yeah, I was thinking that too. Love that guy's videos, a shame he rarely uploads any more.

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2020-12-09 09:14:57

defender wrote:

@mjonsson1986
Which rules do you have a problem with.  Right now it just sounds as if you're complaining about the fact that there are any rules at all.

the fact that admins remove links because the link can get you to ilegal software

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2020-12-09 12:53:11

Bro, seriously. There are more productive ways to show your displessure than bringing back old topics once a month. For someone supposedly born in 1986, you're sure not acting like it.

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2020-12-09 19:30:25

Moderation:

@mjonsson1986, I'm going to go ahead and issue you a warning. This is not the first time that you've gone out of your way to intentionally revive this topic, while simultaneously attempting to stir the pot. You're more than welcome to create a topic if you have questions or concerns that pertain to the rules here (so long as you do so respectfully and like an adult), but bringing back old topics simply to criticize the policies we've set fourth (without even attempting to be constructive) is not okay.
No one is making you stay here. You're more than welcome to leave this forum and start your own if you're unhappy with the rules and guidelines put in place.

I'm also going to go ahead and lock this topic, since the discussion here has long since ended and to avoid potential revivals in the future.

It's not about what you know, it's about who you know.

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