2019-07-08 19:25:07

I guys.

Some of you may know about the Sonus GDE. An easy to use game making tools to create games from the sonus console and the sonus PCP (PC Player).

So far a lot of people have given me good feedback on it but that feedback is mostly from people who have never programmed before. And although its great to know people can pick it up fairly easily and start creating I also want to try and get serious developers involved.

So I was wondering if anyone has given it a go? And if so what are your general opinions and more importantly criticisms.

Some feedback already has informed me they dont like drop down selections for making games. So I have included hot keys and something called GDE script. Which allows you to write out actions rather than select them.

Including python was also raised and I completely agree, although it seems it could be quite a task and I need to ensure it would be worth the effort.

If you have tried developing with the GDE and would like to try it. This link will point you to the GDE and tutorials.
http://www.sonusinteractive.co.uk/GDE.html

The PCP is also there which plays the built/exported games.

Also there is an example project called Witch hunt in the game library which is here
http://store.sonusinteractive.co.uk/Index.php

As well as the built version which can be played on the PCP.


So I'd love to hear what you think and if I can give you a tool that could make game development quicker and maybe increase the rate which games come out.

2019-07-08 22:01:33

well, I can't even use the thing because I get something when I launch the games I built. something about microsoft .net framework. don't know but rite now, nope untill it's fixed.

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2019-07-08 22:22:10

Hi bopitmaster. I've started including the net framework in the install package. So maybe that could have fixed it. If it hasn't could you post the full error if it is giving you one?

2019-07-08 23:34:14

Though I have not used the tool myself, I have done some reading. I have looked through the tutorials, and it seems very convoluted.  That is my fear with Sable, it being really complex and having 1,000,000,001 menus, making the actions you want to do more difficult to find  and create.  I appreciate the effort, but until there is a faster, more efficient method of scripting added to the tool, I am afraid I will give it a pass.  Also, why is !=  labeled as not ==? Wouldn’t it be simpler to just say not equal?
You mentioned python support. How would that work?  What could you do with it?

Coding is not hard. No, not at all.
What is hard is making code that accepts different and sometimes unexpected types of input and still works.
This is what truly takes a large amount of effort on a developer's part.

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2019-07-09 00:00:32

Ok. Would you be willing to verify that what you feel is correct by testing it yourself?
There is GDE script to quickly add actions and removes all the menus involved. And hot keys as mentioned earlier. Although in haven't given them much spotlight and still haven't got around to giving GDE script it's own tutorial.

As for python I was thinking of simply adding a "Run python script" command. Which simply points to a python script you want to execute. Just to give the developer the full flexibility of a programming language if they felt they needed one

The reason for the operators wording is spelling our what the operators did seemed to wording but at the same time using the exclamation symbol may have confused non programmers.

2019-07-09 01:50:56

I will sit down sometime this weekend and give it a shot.
As for running a python script, what is the point of that? How would they interact with each other? You can’t create a window in python and expected to be the same window as your player. Similarly, you would have two keyboard listeners if you do implement that in python.  Finally, I am not too sure, but I believe there is no way to transfer any variables from a python script unless you write them to a file, which then your player has to parse and put to use. It seems like the cost will ultimately outweigh the benefits IMHO.

Coding is not hard. No, not at all.
What is hard is making code that accepts different and sometimes unexpected types of input and still works.
This is what truly takes a large amount of effort on a developer's part.

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2019-07-09 01:56:35

If you could do up a tutorial on the actual script that would be much more helpful.
I find myself getting annoyed by the point and click interface. I'm more comfortable with scripting something. I'd also agree Python would be nice, but I'm not sure what limitations you're going to run in to by trying to include the interpreter. Security is my main concern. You don't want to give a programmer access to the underlying system. I doubt they could do much damage to it, but... You never know.
My biggest feature request would be the ability to either do something object oriented, or be able to have modular functions.

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2019-07-09 07:54:08

I agree security is an issue, perhaps there isnt enough demand for python for the effort. So i'll put that one to rest for now.

The GDE script quite new. I find myself using it alot but this is the first time I'm actually pushing the feature out and putting some spotlight on it. So apologies if its a bit rough around the edges, I will give it some focus this week, but in the mean time I have just uplaoded a small tutorial to just give the feature a bit of an overview.

If you would like to give it a go and check it out I'd love to hear what you think and if there is anyway we could improve it.

Regarding the "do something object oriented, or be able to have modular functions." comment Laim, could you elaborate or think of any examples?

Fucntions is something else I was thinking of including, and being able to export/import objects from otehr projects.

2019-07-11 04:30:21

I got this error Win32 Version: 1.8.5.0
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Sonus%20PCP/NAudio.DLL
----------------------------------------
OpenTK
    Assembly Version: 3.0.1.0
    Win32 Version: 3.0.1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Sonus%20PCP/OpenTK.DLL
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

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2019-07-11 08:29:37

I don't know anything about programing, but, yet, with the GDE, I've been able to create a big square map with a partially built house. I've also got a generator near the house. You can turn the generator on and off. If you go into the previously mentioned house, the generator will actually go into a muffled state so it truly sounds as if you are hearing it through the house wall. That's as far as I've gotten. But, My next thing I want to work on is to be able to create doors you hit and bounce back from if closed, but can walk through if opened. I love this system. I've gotten way farther than I even thought I would get in coding my own audio game.

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2019-07-11 16:03:51

The error you are getting bopitmaster just shows the path of a couple of libraries used by the PCP. Would you be able to go into the PCP folder in my programs and make sure all those libraries are there. They are NAudio.DLL and OpenTK.DLL.


The part below is just about enabling JIT debugging rather than using the standard form error handler. Which should have come up with a window with a button called "details". 

Failing that. You say this issue happens when  you launch the games you built? When it faults it will create an error log in the games directory. Could you share that?

2019-07-11 17:28:05

WHEN I clicked the run option in the GDE, I got this message.
Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click
Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If
you click Quit, the application will close immediately.
The type initializer for 'Sonus_GDE.Debug_Data' threw an exception.
Details Continue Quit
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.
************** Exception Text **************
System.TypeInitializationException: The type initializer for 'Sonus_GDE.Debug_Data'
   at OpenTK.Audio.AudioContext.CreateContext(String device, Int32 freq, Int32 refre
   at OpenTK.Audio.AudioContext..ctor()
   at Sonus_GDE.Debug_Data..cctor() in C:\Users\Aaron\Dropbox\GDE\Sonus GD
   --- End of inner exception stack trace ---
   at Sonus_GDE.Debug_Data.Init()
   at Sonus_GDE.Form_DebugMode.Form_DebugMode_Load(Object sender, Event
I clicked continue but i am stuck in a thing called debug mode and have to quit it.

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2019-07-11 17:46:27

did you install open al?
sekend, would be any trubble to add online mode?

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2019-07-11 18:04:51

Did you Install the GDE recently KeyIsFull? As the newer install packages include the installs for OpenAL and dot net framework.

The most likely cause is OpenAL is not Installed. The hopefully less likely cause is your machines sound card doesnt support openal. Which will be harder to find a fix for but I will try . Do you have another machine you can try it on?

2019-07-11 18:14:07

it was openAl, everything works now. Thanks!

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2019-07-11 19:00:55

I'm glad you got it working. Iet me know if you feel there is anyway we can make it better.

2019-07-11 19:13:17

Oh about adding online mode. Such as multiplayer. I was thinking of adding database actions to the actual sonus. Simple connect read and write actions. So it could be possible for the console.

It's just a thought at the minute

2019-07-11 20:29:02 (edited by keyIsFull 2019-07-11 20:36:29)

why dd you limit it to only 16 sounds? That seems like a low amount fo ranything more than a fairly linear game. I know you're trying to downsize this into a console, but surely it would have enough memory for like 32 sound slots? Even 32 sound slots would be a huge improvement.

Questions:
Besides the tick event for each object, are there other ways to measure time? Can you put decimal numbers for the tick? Having atimer granularity of 1 second is pretty bad; preferably you would allow at the worst, a 0.1 second granularity. More preferably it could time all the way to the millisecond.
Random number generation: is there any way to generate a random number? What about playing random sounds for the same event? I didn't see any references to that in the tutorials and that's something that everyone likes to have. I did see random local variables but I'm not sure how they work.
Variable names vs literals: I am unsure whether there is a way to concatenate variable names and string literals. Does it just do a simple search and replace routine when evaluating that stufff? A clear example would be nice.
Strict or loose typing: The only variables I have seen are number variables, but of course there are other kinds of variables. Does your game support dfloating point variables and strings? Are there ways we can do more complex arithmetic than just the arithmetic operations (which you would have to string together with some difficulty in order to do complex formulas)?

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2019-07-11 20:58:56

I can't create projects, or save or load them.
Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click
Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If
you click Quit, the application will close immediately.
Creating an instance of the COM component with CLSID
{C0B4E2F3-BA21-4773-8DBA-335EC946EB8B} from the IClassFactory
failed due to the following error: 80040111 ClassFactory cannot supply
requested class (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80040111
(CLASS_E_CLASSNOTAVAILABLE)).
Details Continue Quit

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2019-07-11 21:11:20

Ok lets start from the top.

16 channels is changeable of we need. I was under the impression 16 sounds being played at once would be about noisy but that was before 3d was added.

The periodical (tick) can deal with float. 1 second is not the lowest value.

Random numbers can be generated and stored in global or local variables. There are actions in the list for that. You can then check the variable with a condition to play a random sound.
You just put a variable name and a min and max value in the action and the variable will
bet set to a value between the 2. You can also add subtract etc.

Variables dont just have to be numbers. They can be strings or floats.

Sorry. Not sure what you mean about joining variable names and strings together.

And as for the arithmetic. Complex formulas would be awkward. That can be improved.
I'll add it to the list

2019-07-12 17:35:29

I'm so sorry hurstseth. I didn't event notice your post. Could you click the details button and post the contents?
Then I should be able to track the issue. Also are you using the latest GDE version? There was some globalisation issues in previous builds

2019-07-12 19:32:37

So in reading more on this I'm assuming since it is written in c#, MacOS support is out of the question? also while this project does seem promising, one person behind it makes it much more likely that support and update or improvements will stop. plus a one person dev team limits  speed of features and improvements. Any chance of making this open source so the community could improve on this? then the wider community could add MacOS or linux support etc.

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2019-07-12 19:53:45

Of course I understand the concern Kyle, but I do also think the project has come a long way with the limited man power I have had. Of course I would openly accept help and community involvement would be an exciting concept, unfortunatly the source code has sensative data in it relating to the actual console, meaning that making it open source could elimiante the possability of it ever being released.

And if the GDE or PCP code changes, the same changes will need making to the console.

If it wasnt for these issues, I would happenly let the community have their creative input.  but I have implemented a lot of feedback already such as GDE script, 3D sound and a lot of small tweaks and features.

2019-07-12 20:25:00

Here is my error.
Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click
Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If
you click Quit, the application will close immediately.
Creating an instance of the COM component with CLSID
{C0B4E2F3-BA21-4773-8DBA-335EC946EB8B} from the IClassFactory
failed due to the following error: 80040111 ClassFactory cannot supply
requested class (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80040111
(CLASS_E_CLASSNOTAVAILABLE)).

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2019-07-12 20:25:59

I'm using the latest from your site. I allready had .net installed and all I needed to install was openal.

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