2024-03-17 11:32:00

looking for a little help and  suggestion , I  want to try, at least
consider the sims 4   is an old game and somehow easy to understand,i'm not posting  this to coding room because I think we need to talk a bit first, for funtions, worrying and more.
another reason of posting this, because i see how good the factorio mod is, and the sims 4 even easier than factorio
I want to make a mod for the sims 4 to communicate with screen reader, like NVDA  about the worrying
i'm not a very good coder, and don't have experience about communicating in two softwares
the most worrying is NVDA  will upgrade to python3.11, and the sims 4 won't upgrade, will still in python 3.7
will it make it unuseable in some case
basic funtion may not that hard, because large amount of the game is menu base
for example, you get a microwave, it will have menu to make dinner, have tab like popcorns pizza and below it have options, you hit an option so the person will do it.
similar with most objects, other people, as long as  the person can see it, you hit it, and a menu will pop up.
we need to let the mod to read each stats of the persons, objects
harder funtions  are
1, we need to know what objects around the person, so we can hit it with mouse, let the person do what we think.
2,camera length, because it's a god mode game, so we as player have camera, it's not always  follow the person we  are controling.
3, map, it's even harder, but the map in the sims 4 is easy to understand
each world split to different areas, you would think worlds are cities, and areas are different large areas around the city, range from apartments area, shopping mall
each world have few areas to choose from, when we open the map,, it's just a special menu
the harder part about the map  is, we need to see different buildings in the area when the person is standing.
thinking about the camera mode in the factorio, if we can get x/y number and the stats of the object , just like  what I think in camera length, it should be fine.
the  most difficult part is, the build mode

it's called manage worlds, or build mode, let you buy most large things, from tables to computer to TV, but it's also the mode we can design the house, it's
it's really difficult, consider the hard part you try to design the factory in factorio
but if we can make the camera mode work in build mode it's mostly done.
thoughts? and more?

2024-03-17 15:15:51

Well, when I was sighted and play sims online and even the off line sims they had mods and its all click mouse base.  So not sure how thats going to work out for a mod for the blind, as it would take somebody sighted to lay out all the click points.  The only issue I see is the fact getting focus on a item that you want to move to, ifyou  can't see it on the screen, then the mod would have to know where to move your player to that area and then click on the object to react to it.

I know also the game uses a gride style third quarter view.

It might can be done. not sure I still have my sim  cd laying around from pets to vacation and so forth.

2024-03-17 15:59:13 (edited by snow 2024-03-17 16:03:30)

@2, if we can use API or other to get  data, like object name, and  as long as we can get camera  access with mod  i think it may be  useable,so cursor mode is  an important funtion, I think?
I  know python, but don't know the sims API, it's the  most  info i  need to know, and how to   communicate  with NVDA

2024-03-17 17:14:38

You didn't think about dividing the whole world into squares, I remember that in older versions of the Sims this was the building mode. I will add that I don't know how to build Allegro games in Sims 2 and 3 as an invisible person

2024-03-17 18:57:20

Well, keep in mind, this game was made with EA, good luck on cracking there API.  Yes I said grid though my keyboard loves to add extra letters when I type.  Or its my dang long claws that is getting in the way.

As much as I would love to play The Sims, as a blind person I don't think it would be any fun.  Frankly if some blind programmers put their heads together they could make a simular game, just would take some time to build the game though.

Surprised nobody came up with a Pokemon Stadiums game for the blind yet, maybe useing Manamons creatures.

Either way.  Yeah, EA loves to give folks the finger when it comes to there games.

2024-03-17 18:59:10

though I did forget, you could add content to the game, so maybe there is some hope.  Not sure.

2024-03-17 19:08:12

I do recall when Sims Online was around, I had a program that I used with two accounts to make money, which was against the rules, and it I think used mouse clicking as its controller on the one screen, you couldn't mess with the computer when yous tarted the action.  So maybe the API is open.

I won't forget makeing hundreds of real dollar selling spotted cheetas and I forgot what the other pet was, I think it was a oh thats right a Tiger.  sold those on I think it was E-Bay for $100 a pop.  Before E-Bay cracked down on game content selling.

Gosh that was like way back in 2003 or 2004.  before I went total blind lol.  Good old days.

2024-03-18 07:45:25

@6 EA? what you mean  EA will block the API?
If i was right, the sims even allow cheating, so if we can read the object name and any status we need, it could be  enough.
about we would happy when playing it, the sound design  actually not bad. it have a hotkey for pause the time, so we can read the status  and try to see what is going on.
the largest problem is  if we can see all the object's information, and how to communicate to NVDA, toke, or com API in NVDA?

2024-03-18 10:19:01

I do think it's defonitly doable.
In my view, the most difficult issue is tracking items and moving the mouse to them.  Once you can solve that, the rest shouldn't be as difficult.
I wonder what language the sims modding is done in?

2024-03-18 10:51:23

the sims 4 mod mostly using  python, python3.7, and NVDA using python as well, so i'm thinking if it's useable
@9, right, tracking is very important, because objects like person may moving, we need to know the direction of move, so we first need to make camera a good support.
@7 you are worrying about  playing for happy? the sims or any life simulator just making person laugh.
it's a godmode game, most person playing like dress up or house, and see it.

2024-03-18 12:23:03

Could some ideas from the Stardue-Access mod be implemented to this game to do things with the mouse like stardue does.

2024-03-18 14:42:44

I doubt you'll have to directly intigrate with NVDA.
You can probobly use something like tolk, accessible output or just tts.

2024-03-18 19:47:16

Well, having an older python version can be worked around easy enough with virtualenvs, the only thing is library support which I mean could also probably mostly be figured out all be it a bit of a hassle to maybe get older versions through pip or building manually or something.

Abay chal.

2024-03-18 21:29:40

yeah, that's not why I suggest avoiding direct NVDA integration.
Using tolk or accessible output would probobly be better so it supports multiple screenreaders or even tts.

2024-03-19 02:38:30

Yeah no I'm totally with you on not integrating this with NVDA directly. I encourage people to not do that anyway even if they are building an NVDA addon lol -for several reasons- and make a standalone app itself that is screen-reader agnostic, let alone something like this where that applies even more, among other things.

Abay chal.

2024-03-19 05:38:33 (edited by snow 2024-03-19 05:40:01)

you guys saying not using NVDA addon, so my best choice is  using tolk for any output to the screen reader, is it right?
I heard tolk  is a no longer active project, is it still useable?
if  tolk can do   any output to the screen reader, so  what i must do is try to learn the  game's API to know if we can read any object name or status, and passing the result to the tolk and so tolk to NVDA, i think?

2024-03-19 07:25:26

Hello. I started working on this, but I didn't get very far. The problem for me is figuring out EA's mess of an undocumented api. Even something as simple as printing to the debug console is painful and took time for people to figure out.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2024-03-19 08:42:56

@17,  what you mean? you was did something, , the problem is docless API, it means even reading the menu could a problem, hmm.

2024-03-19 16:21:34

I'm glad to see someone's trying to make the sims playable for us. I don't how successful it'll be, but hey as long as you're willing to try it, you've definitely earned my respect and I hope you can get it working, because I'd love to play the sims and always have.

2024-03-19 18:11:47

@snow I'm also learning and working in python at the moment, so if you'd like help with the project, I'd be willing.

2024-03-19 19:52:58

Well since multiple people are willing to give this a look -myself included- how about we actually team up, make a discord server or something and see what can be done? Strength in numbers and all that; we can divide the work, help each other in figuring things out and keeping everyone accountable and prevent burnout? I suspect that last one will be needed anyway if this API really is as big of a mess as you say.

Abay chal.

2024-03-19 20:20:23

yeah, the API intimidates me.  Integrations are the worst, so that will be very painful to deal with.

2024-03-20 06:12:17

@21 and 22,  my idea was the sims have so much mods, so API is useable? or  common sense of mods don't need to talk deep  for API using?

2024-03-20 06:19:07

my  most knowledge only from the sims 4 modding wiki and reading the open sorce mods, it says we can use object adjustment like cheating, could I make it out put to tolk or anything attach to screen reader?

2024-03-20 13:07:05

I don't know enough to say at this point.  I haven't really looked into it, been busy with college stuff, I would defonitly imagine it's doable, how difficult it is is the only question.