2024-02-11 04:03:07

@23 At this point, I say they can suck it up if they don’t like it. Since it's a large matter of security now, it's either they get used to different forum software, or they get used to no forum.

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2024-02-11 04:17:48

Ok, now I understand why the forum didn't load at all and I just got a cloudflare error... Damn. This seriously needs to be dealt with. I mean... Only a matter of time before people start doing this to follow this guy's example. At least he's now banned, but there's still over 1100 topics.

sound designer for mental vision, and Eurofly3.
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2024-02-11 04:20:14

How is that interface anyway? Is it clean like this or is it another bloated pile of garbage like most everything else is now>?

2024-02-11 04:26:43

As of my last check, the first good topic was on page 37.
Too bad they disabled topic deletion.
Even if they have to temporarily enable it to make this troll delete each topic one by one, then so be it.
I realize the admins can do this, but they shouldn't have to clean up multiple pages of someone's mess.
@20, Good luck accomplishing that without being an admin or mod. Please let me know how it's working out for you.
@23, I agree with post 26 on this one.
Like it or not, people need to realize that change eventually needs to happen, and if they care that much about being part of this community they'll learn how to work it.
I'm not saying that we should just accept it if they give us an inaccessible mess of a forum software, but I am saying that sometimes we need to learn new ways of doing things, and until some people grasp that concept they won't make it very far in life.

2024-02-11 04:29:37

Even cleaner, and yes, it has headings for posts and topics, and almost everything else, but no one wants to switch still

2024-02-11 06:12:29

Well shit, someone pulled this shit... again. Topic room is now being spanned by webber, who ever that is... with topic's titled the i am in bed game... For fuck's sake. This is getting annoying, and uh... We cant use the forum for shit with jackasses like these doing this deliberately. This getting ridiculous.

sound designer for mental vision, and Eurofly3.
take a look at
My freesound pageWhere I post sounds I record. ps: if you use my sounds, remember to credit me smiley

2024-02-11 06:16:06

i'm not surprised at all, mods/admins, migrate the forum, and if people dont want it, they can just suck it up

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2024-02-11 06:17:45

If you hate infinite scrolling and hamburger menus then you'll hate discourse.
Whatever we end up moving onto we should probably aim to preserve the nice comfy web 1.0 feel we have here. Infinite scrolling is  a fucking nightmare that can and will end up breaking somewhere down the line because google fucked up chromium or whatever.
The fact that google has screwed up chromium a few times over the years but this site just kept trucking speaks volumes for it's usability, current issues aside.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2024-02-11 06:34:35 (edited by Ethin 2024-02-11 06:36:19)

@33, if Google breaks Chromium I don't see how that's our problem. Blame that on Google for messing with something that worked fine before they broke it when it does break. The current state of things cannot continue.
Edit: and as for hamburger menus? Yeah, I haven't really seen those and I hang out on at least 3 discourse forums. I'm pretty sure both can be turned off if you (really) want to anyway.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2024-02-11 06:45:51

And we thought we had it bad when Slover or Donaldsj or whatever their name is was spamming.
This almost makes what they did look like nothing.

2024-02-11 07:08:05

I didn't even realize Discourse autoscrolled anymore, so whatever they did must work well enough.

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2024-02-11 07:10:13 (edited by Draq 2024-02-11 07:15:50)

My only issue with infinite scrolling is when I get to a certain area of a page and, instead of just putting more at the bottom of the page and waiting for me to get through that, the content just starts scrolling slowly without any input at all. Anything I was trying to read gets replaced with the new content. The focus doesn't change, only the content. That makes things extremely frustrating to navigate. I still don't know what that's about. The only way to get it to stop is to fight with it by moving back up the page. Unplugging the keyboard or switching away from the window pauses it, which is even more strange. It happens only if I'm trying to navigate with anything but tab. I don't know if that's a common issue with infinite scrolling and screen readers or if it's just me.

2024-02-11 07:12:09

@36, yeah, same experience here. I never notice the scrolling -- it's slow enough that it doesn't matter. Scrolling up to read posts that are hidden is a bit annoying, but I think that's more NVDA's fault than Discourses.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2024-02-11 07:19:45 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2024-02-11 07:27:25)

yeah so I knew this spam stuff was gonna happen somehow, some time. And its a bit appalling (but expected) that no real new alternative places were successful. I remember asking several times on these "oh lets make a new forum a new audio games place waaah" crying topics for ideas, for starting points, for at least some discord or whatever, and guess what nothing. Because this is essentially unpaid volunteer work and of course it shows for years on this site that there is little of a desire to do stuff for free from pretty much every one here (and yes, this time generalization is the right thing to do to get the point across). Also, with the abundance of superiority complexes that one finds here, a technical solution could have been implemented in people's sleep and very simply done from the database or the server... topics with similar titles (say a 90% match) should be rejected, simple conditional reg exp boolean things plus a no more than 5 topic creations a day or something (who really needs to make 5 new things to talk about anyway if there is even a monthly chat?) (and yes this comes from someone who is not a programmer at all) but alas, I digress too much for my own good.
Its a bit disturbing the website has kept going on at all. Remember last time what a great smooth experience it was to contact the webmasters of this thing?
or the countless times any topics have gotten out of hand.. when noble ideas stop being cared for at all this is the glorious result.

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station…

2024-02-11 07:41:20

Mods, is there not a mass deletion option somewhere? Delete all this user's posts/topics, sort topics by user and hit select all, anything like that? Something like that seems like a no-brainer for moderation tools, especially with threat of spamming.

看過來!
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    George... Don't do that.

2024-02-11 08:12:58

So, the Space Battles family of forums seems to use a mostly web 1.0 UI without any of our problems. Of the three I'm familiar with, this one has the most permissive rules relevant to recent drama (you can ignore how much detail they go into about NSFW content; it's relevant to why they spun off from their parent sites).
I have no idea how feasible it would be to migrate the database to that forum architecture. I do know I have heard nothing about any of the SB family having issues with spam attacks. I've mostly only heard complaints about moderation styles, hence I linked to the most permissive one.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2024-02-11 08:32:01

@41, looks like that forum software they use is paid. I still don't really see why we should keep the "web 1.0" look. Sure it's all nice but it's also obvious just how outdated and broken that look is. Modern forum software uses JS but that's not a huge deal.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2024-02-11 08:48:23

@42: but why though?  In terms of UI, this forum is the least annoying I've ever come across. Do you have a recommendation for a modern format that isn't bloated / laggy / requires additional whatsits for accessibility? We need simple, and it seems like trends have been toward needlessly complex, and therefore slow and cumbersome. In the past month or two, I've seen specific mainstream sites improving on this, but none of those have been forums.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2024-02-11 09:02:54

This is the first one I can think of, it seems quite nice and easy to use, not to mention that half the forums I go to have the same layout, about endless scroling? I didn't even notice that exists, in fact, of all the forum systems I've ever used this one is the less annoying/buggy/etc one, Always sigh in releaf when a site I click on from google search uses it instead of redit or quora or whatever other site that loves to scream suggestions and hide comments lol.
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2024-02-11 09:25:19

@43, because Discourse may use JS and such but it also has very good moderation tools. It's also not that slow or bloated. This forum software is absolute shit nowadays, and I'm pretty positive the fact it's in PHP (and very bad PHP at that) doesn't make the idea of fucking around with it by the admins a task that they'd want to do just because when you have bad/messy code like that, it can be very easy to cause a cascade failure.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2024-02-11 09:40:02

@ethin
Sometimes software just works.  You are right that the forum's codebase is probably fragile, but in terms of the frontend this style of thing just works.  There's no particular need to modernize it so why would you?  I mean obviously you would because the backend issues, but the frontend is fine here.  Discourse or whatever isn't necessarily bad but even I will agree with everyone else that this site is one of the smoothest experiences out there for forums if you're blind.

If someone got the few things that were broke handled--and this duplicate topics one is definitely on that list--this could run another 10 to 20 years without significant code changes anywhere.  Forum software only has to do like 4 or 5 things at most.

Switching to Discourse or insert other solution is an answer to the issues but "it's technically better" just doesn't apply a lot.

@41
They probably have had spam issues.  You can't exactly stop this level of trolling, only moderate it after the fact.  The things that prevent such things are social.  Bots may be blocked, but what's going on here isn't and has never been bots.  Show the average blind teen a bug this easy to exploit in an environment where there are few consequences and only semi-active mods and it's well known that no one has good access to all the backend stuff?  That's the recipe for failure and it's entirely social/organizational.  You can software away specific bugs like this one, but someone could do the same thing with a tiny Python script easily enough without the bug.  Honestly I even wonder if that's what happened here, because triggering the bug reliably enough to get thousands of topics seems way harder and less likely to work, and the script would be insultingly easy.

No matter where we go, if we just magically transplant everyone like transplanting the garden, these issues will come along for the ride.  Fixing them requires social changes.

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2024-02-11 10:08:25

@46, I don't propose the change to Discourse because "Hey this is just a good idea" or something similar though. Discourse generally has much better tooling/moderation systems/whatnot, email replies for those who like that sort of thing, and it also has a vibrant community. The fact that it's not written in PHP is just a side bonus (maybe), but I'm not just advocating for the switch because "hey this is a modern cool thing". Sure, this is one of the smoothest for the blind community, but it lacks a ton of features that people have wanted implemented that Discourse already has (or could have, given it's community), and thus far, the mods haven't shown an interest in updating the PHP code to incorporate those features.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2024-02-11 12:58:41

Dear all, the user has been banned and the topics have been moved to a TRASH forum folder. This is done because deleting a topic takes a relatively long time, making it too worksome to remove all the posts. We'll try to find a fix for the slow behaviour of the database, for now, the abusive posts have been moved to a folder so it is easier to remove all the posts at once.

2024-02-11 18:39:05

@48, couldn’t you just delete the users in question? I believe there’s an option to delete a user and all their posts / topics, though I may be wrong. I don’t get the impression that either of these guys were particularly good contributors to this place anyway.

2024-02-11 20:19:29

@48
If you hand-add a unique constraint on one of the tables (I don't know which one because no backend access) you can stop people from making duplicate topics without changing the subject line by causing subsequent requests to fail.  The only issue is that said constraint will already be violated, so you may perhaps need to use a trigger instead.  Unfortunately I don't know enough sql to do triggers in my sleep and alter table varies per database.

@47
Like what? The only things I've seen people ask for are "fix search", "fix e-mail" and that's it.

(I would like to see us fix "google doesn't index this site" but that's not a code issue)

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