GCW:
 
OK, here we go then!

Porn is an unmitigated evil is a stance usually held by fundamentalist Christianity, although Thunderfist gave a pretty crazed description of it, and I think they might be Muslim. Anyway, I'm going to stick to Christianity, because it's what I'm most familiar with.

So there are sects of Christianity, usually associated with Evangelicalism, that share some features.
1. Testimony:  You get up in front of everybody and tell them all of the bad horrible things you did when you weren't a Christian.

2. Spiritual warfare:  This can be more or less explicit, in the explicit forms you get a lot of people insisting that everybody and their brother should be casting out demons. In the less overt forms, Satan/demons are out to attack and tempt you at all times, and you have to resist.

Now because of this, you get some of the interpretations you see here. Jesus said if you lust after another person in your heart, you've already committed adultery. And for these people, that's all you're doing. It can never be, for example, something that feeds into you and your spouse, in other words yes you're watching other people go at it but what's in your mind/heart is you and your spouse. Nope, you're involved in sex things with somebody other than your spouse. That's a problem. Additionally, in the more overt spiritual warfare stuff, you get talk of stuff like every porn star has a demon assigned to them, and when you watch it, you get that demon in you too.

Other versions of Christianity don't really have this. I don't know of any that are explicitly going, "sure, go watch a bunch of porn", but I think the more usual idea is, well if that's what you guys do in private, OK. And I think that's because you don't have these two ideas, first that everything is a potential attack/temptation, and second that the *only* thing this can do is take you away from your spouse. It's not something you guys can watch together and get turned on by, it's just something making you lust after other people, for the versions of Christianity that are explicitly against it.

Thunderfist, post 49, I want to address a few points.

1. You say that porn is designed to tear families apart and ruin people. Okay so...the trand majority of people have sex drives, and the fair majority of people can be at least nominally turned on by porn. What seems more plausible to you? An industry that's trying to exploit the human sex drive for profit, or an industry that is designed to make people miserable? The former has problematic elements, for sure, but the latter, if found out, would literally destroy itself. That would be like a house designed with a fire pre-lit inside the bathroom wall; as soon as those flames eat enough of the substructure, the entire place fills up with smoke, becomes uninhabitable, and is absolutely useless.

2. You say that the wrath of the Almighty is something to be afraid of. I'm wondering if you have a personal channel to this particular being, and if you do, would you mind hooking me up?

3. Most egregious for me personally, you say that cooking and cleaning are women's work. Why do you say this? On whose authority? Was it a woman who told you this, and if it was, where did she get her info from? You need to do a ton of work on your gender expectations, I think, because the vast majority of modern women will utterly repudiate this more traditional, restrictive interpretation. Also, just a tip for your future life, assuming you're still young: if you ever have a female partner, or if you ever live with a female relative, absolutely do not assume that your messes are hers to clean, and that your food intake is her responsibility. I mean, I've heard of chauvinism before, but this is way beyond the pail, and probably the worst example I've seen in years.

@Jade:

THe way I read :@49 was that it's a cultural thing with Thunderfist and it won't change much though because of societal/religious reasons however. As much as I disagree with @49, I get why they are saying this given IIRC they are Muslim, and by that post not a progressive, enlightened form of Islam, but one that's more steeped in somebody's interpretation that  traditional Islamic teachings  are the only way to live,which are not very progressive by anyone else's modern standards however. There's absolutely parts of the world where that view is the norm and women are treated as third or fourth class citizens by men because that's what the holy book says, or their interpretation of it at least.
So yes we can all (rightly) critique @49, and it's deserved. But there's also a deep cultural and religious reason why it's said like that, but personally living near a large Muslim area, @49 comes off like somebody who is deeply, deeply entrenched in traditional, and edging towards fundementalist, interpretations of what the Koran says regardless of the world moving on around them. And again, there's absolutely parts of the world like this. I can sit here and name five or six nations where it's like that, mostly in/around the Middle East/Asian subcontinent.

Lol @56, that one got a good laugh out of me.
@58, I'm, really not seeing your point. Obviously post 1 has a pretty definite undertone of porn = bad, but that's based off of and around his own personal experiences with the medium. Also I already mentioned religious bias in my previous post, and in all my years on this forum I've never, ever seen Nocturnus argue in bad faith, for any reason, not even as regards his religious views. @49 is a complete and total contrast to anything he has ever said on this particular subject matter, or on religion / Christianity in general, and is exactly the sort of thing my previous post was attempting to condemn. Your earlier posts weren't far off either, mind you, but you did at least attempt to be civil / not overtly hateful.
Edit: I should probably add that I wasn't in any way trying to excuse Nocturnus's duplicity here. And as I also said in my last post, it will absolutely be up to him and his wife to move on in whatever way best suits them / the situation in general. I hope that doesn't involve divorce, I really do.

I'm well aware of the potential cultural significance of Thunderfist's posts. But given that this particular cultural norm makes women into fourth-class citizens...nope, ain't no way I'm letting that shit stand without a challenge. That whole mess needs to be done with, preferably yesterday. I try to be culturally sensitive wherever possible, but some things just cannot be excused. Because I bet you that the fair majority of women even in these specific cultures, if encouraged to speak freely, probably would not be okay with this. Or, at the least, not nearly as okay with it as their culture expects them to be.

Bashue, I don't really see any indication that Thunderfist was writing his post with the intention of drawing attention to problematic cultural mores. It looks a lot like he believes and/or supports this stuff. The way he worded his post does not indicate a devil's-advocate position of any sort.

That's why such men and even some women who perpetuate the myth that the woman's place is only in the home need to be educated and given all the pertinent information regarding the equity of women. Women must be treated equitably from this day forth and be given equal opportunities and equal pay in the work place. Why must they be treated equitably as well as equally? Equity takes into account the different skillsets of the individual; it also takes into account an individual's wants and needs. Equality takes you a part of the way but equity takes you the rest of the way. As for wives not being controlled by their husbands, I agree, that should never be. I've spoken with people who believe that the wife must honour and obey her husband and I've become very unpopular with said people because I turned it around and said unto them that in that case, husbands should also honour and obey their wives. Is it not so that both the bible and quran talk about husbands and wives being equally yoked meaning they must follow the very same guidelines that were given them via the scriptures? I was told to not talk to the men who believe that the woman's place is only in the home again about their belief when I told them that my diosa and I enjoy a horseshoe relationship meaning that we honour each other and listen to one another and we give one another the freedom to do what we want to within reason because that allows us to learn from our mistakes. In short, it's far better to communicate rather than control and we wouldn't dream of controlling one another. You're also right in stating that Nocturnus does not control his wife nor does she control him. Anyone who controls another and subjugates another will be controlled and subjugated in turn.

I have to echo what @63, 64, 65 and 66 have said. their is no need to have me come on here to talk about that as that is messed up. I too hope he is trolling?

Before I  start this post, let me just state that my goal is not to offend Muslims, or anyone for that matter. I would just like to draw attension to why Thunderfist (and indeed, many Muslims around the world) believe this way.
TLDR: Muhammad taught it.
To make sure I'm not quoting the Quran out of context, I'll be posting the entire verses from which I quote.
Quran 4:34 says:

To back this up, let me site one of Islam's most trusted sources, the hadith collection known as Sahih al-Bukhari.
Sahih al-Bukhari 5825 says:

If that isn't bad enough, in Islam, the witness of a man is equal to that of two women, according to the Quran.
Quran 2:282 says:

That is all I will post regarding Islam, so that I do not take up too much room on Nocturnus's topic.

If I felt like it, I'm sure I could go find some really ugly passages out of the Bible. And let's be clear here. I know tons of Muslims who do not, in fact, subscribe to this philosophy you've quoted. Some do, of course, just as some Christians and Jews are extremely orthodox or antiquated in how they observe their faith. But the reality is, cultural norms hundreds of years ago were far, far more restrictive, so these passages do not surprise me at all.
I'm saying this only so as to not start an avalanche about Islam. Virtually all Abrahamic religions have been pretty awful to women over the years, and only now, in the last hundred years or so, are we seeing strong pushback.

First of all, I never said the woman is a slave.

The fact of the matter is, a woman likes security, just as a man does. A woman is emotionally weaker than her Husband withregard to many things - note I'm not talking in regards to intelect, because that's not based on gender. Most women, even those that aren't obedient to their Husbands, still like a strong man as a protector. This is obviously because biologically men are physiologically stronger than women and in certain espects can surpass women. Tell me, in most countries, who are in charge of the government? Men, of course. This is because a man is in a better disposition to protect a country from any danger e.g. invasions etc. Who fights in wars? No doubt men. The stress and strains of war aren't something that a woman can ordinarily cope with. If you ever pit 1000 men against 1000 women in a battlefield, the men would win 99 out of 100 times since they have better endurance and can cope better with the stress of war. Otherwise we should have a majority female army in every country. By the way, most countries don't allow women to seerv in combat roles, and those that do, very few women actually serve in those roles simply because they know it's not worth it. Most women in militaries serve in support roles etc.
2. Post 69 is a fundamental misunderstanding of those teachings.
1. As to the verse you quoted, know that Arabic is a hard language to translate into English. Islamic scholars are unanimously agreed that it's forbidden to beat up ones Wife, and nowhere did I say that. Let's look at the verse.
Part 1, to advise the Wife if she is not obeying him. This is common sense. Of course you are going to advise her, just as a Wife would advise her Husband if he is doing something wrong.
2. To separate beds, i.e. to stay apart. This is of course  if things get to such a serious level. Again, common sense. People need time to think things through. It could also be beneficial for the Husband because he might need to rethink some of the things that led up to that point.
3. The part about hitting ones Wife. The word strike is an error in the translation. Rather a more correct translation would be to beat them lightly in a way that does not cause injury or pain, a type of hitting that does not even leave a mark. And for your information, this type of disciplinary behavior is not only practiced by Muslims but it is in many cultures worldwide. Don't forget that in Medieval Europe women were animals  to be used and tossed aside whenever men wanted to.  Also see this link.

https://www.answering-christianity.com/ … adiths.htm

Also, you should understand how Islam honored women. Women were given the right to own property in the qur'an 1400 years ago. In contrast, a woman was only given the right to own property in 1882 in the UK! Not only that, women in Islamic society were scholars, poets etc. For example, the oldest university in the islamic world was founded by a wealthy woman Fatima Al-Firi, who was an African woman! Contrast this to medieval Europe where most of the nobles who went on the first crusade couldn't even read or write their names! Who did the crusaders take their knowledge of paper from? They took it from the Muslims, who took it from the Chinese!
Finally, Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion. Tell me, if islam was abusive to women why would so many women nowadays then embrace Islam?