Those who say it's just the same game with a different story, that's how sequels work in the real gaming world. You don't re code the entire game, you use the code that works and base your next game on it. Look at any Naruto / DBZ / whatever sequel and you will notice that from game to game, the stile and gameplay changes only in minor ways, the content changes are the most important. A different stile of game, but still relevant, look at soccer games like PES or Fifa. They are probably still using pieces of code written more than 4 years ago.
My angle on this is simple.
Is Aaron trying to milk this community for every penny? No, I'd say he's not.
Are his games overpriced as compared to other games? Perhaps so. To be fair to him, most of his games don't contain bugs, and the sound design is solid. It might not knock your socks right off, but it's solid. And he does his homework when it comes to music. I'll give him credit where it's due. He's a bit hit and miss (balance issues, follow-through after a product is released, and I've talked those things to death at different points)...but no, I don't think he's milking the community.
Making an RPG from a mathematical perspective is far easier than making, say, an FPS, if for no other reason than that all you need to really handle is battle. Also, if you're doing grid-style vs. full 3d, that's even easier yet, and grid-style is what Aaron has generally done. Nothing wrong with this, if that's your jam, but it does mean things are easier overall.
lol I've already got enough new manamon in the "create your own manamon" thread to make a Manamon 3. And if I had a sound designer, someone to code and/or use the existing engine, and a legal go-ahead, I bet I could make an extremely worthy sequel. But I don't, and I'm not going to, and that's okay. Either manamon 3 will come out one day, or it won't. In some ways, I'm almost hoping it doesn't. While the second Manamon game was better than the first in almost every way, it still suffers from a lot of the problems of prior games, which tells me as a customer that maybe Aaron isn't as invested in actually improving what he's doing as he ought to be, if he's going to keep asking premium prices for his titles.
the demo from manamon 2 though. You got to give it to him, that is a long demo. And making sure you could revisit all the areas in the game is important to catch all the manamon. But it is dumb that you have to get some manamon from manamon 1. I am not sure if that is the case for pokemon too, and if they have rewards for collecting all pokemon, I am sure they do.
What the pokemon franchise is infamous for is having two concurrent versions that are very similar, and having version exclusives. This is obviously much harder to do for a small dev team. I don't have a serious problem with some manamon not being available in manamon 2, although if I were doing it, I'd make them rare, or unlocked only after certain conditions were met, or something like that. Aaron does as well as or better than pokemon in this regard.
Demos being big or small aren't entirely the point. I also want to point out that Aaron's promise for his demo is not entirely truthful, since you can't enter Haunted Thicket even though it is technically before the third stadium. It is fair to say, however, that you get a good taste of the game, and can decide whether or not you want to buy it. As I've said, this game did many things right, but still has enough problems which existed in the past to make me extremely dubious of a manamon 3 without far better help and/or representation from people who frankly know the genre, the tropes and the act of writing better than Aaron himself does.
#30 (edited by defender 2020-11-03 15:32:03)
Regarding Blindfold games.
Continually making a sub par product and not listening to criticism, while charging for every game rather than having a series of themed game packs or letting tokens be used on all games is wrong in my opinion, whether it's this community or the mainstream.
Many older blind people who only really know about his games can't compare them to more reasonable offerings like we can, meaning he relies on their ignorance for his business model.
I don't fault the guy for trying to make a living wage in a niche market, nor can the responsibility for the Skinner box microtransaction model which relies on addiction and weaknesses in human psychology be laid at his feet.
But the production value and mechanical complexity of his games is generally low (he would make the point that this simplicity is good for his clientele but difficulty settings are a thing), and many are built on the same structure so that he can turn out games like a factory, then charge for them as if they had taken a significant amount of development time when they didn't.
Again, I think he relies heavily on the lack of experience and knowledge of his playerbase to keep getting away with this (they are just happy to have something) and that's not okay. He worked in the mainstream before this, so it's not as if he isn't him self aware of what's out there.
Aaah. Body paaarts.
At defender well the applevis comunity eats up these games like nothing else, and not all of them seam to be older folks. possibly not technically as literate as we are over here, but still interesting to see. Interestingly enough he hasn't published a new game over the last months and is concentrating on his object aid, something with learning how to use computers when you are blind. Although if he keeps his strange control and interaction models in his programs, they students who rely on these things will have a rude awakening.
Well, he lost every respect when he came around with the open letter when apple requested something off him, I think that he was asked to bundle his games, something among these lines.
der Kirchturmpfal zum Himmel steht,
Der Wein geweiht, die Erde bebt.
Dem Herr seih nah im Stoßgebet
@Simba: Not read the open letter but come on, bundling your products is a simple request
@Jade: And rereleasing older games as part of a new generation too. Oh and bugs. And al the bugs...
#33 (edited by moaddye 2020-11-03 18:30:59)
just because you want manamon 3 does not mean you will have it right now. Be patient, creating the maps, the storyline, the sounds, the new features, the new moves and manamon, the new entries, the new abilities, do not just make themselves in 1 second and then are handed to us on a silver platter.
After Finishing the giveaway formanamon two I had an email discussion with Aaron and said Why don’t you make a third version of the game so that they could make another giveaway next year? He said that you had no plans for it and it takes really really long time to make a game. So from this thread it sounds like the same thing you said just before releasing the second game.
Yeah, I personally don't expect Manamon 3 before at least 2023. The fact he released the games as a surprise, that kind of release just doesn't happen often enough in my opinion.
What makes me uneasy is when one of you said it was possibly developed due to a lack of alternatives. I really hope he doesn't develop the game for that kind of reason because one generally doesn't stray as much to improve while having that mindset, and because he would be pretty much kidding himself at this point, no questions asked. Pokemon was already pretty playable before Crystal access was even a thing, and some members on this very forum have experience with the series, like Jayde for example, who has demonstrated it countless times. It even begs the question of Crystal access and Manamon existing were Pokemon's sound design not as solid from the start.
Now I do have some hope, for Manamon isn't a soulless clone of Pokemon. Sometimes it differenciates for the worst, but sometimes definitely for the best, like for example there is no dungeon as cool as the Baren Underground in the Pokemon series, in my opinion.
it's damn hard to make really good game, like manamon 2, even if you have code base.
Manamon2 and 1 are gonna die someday and wen that day comes, their will be something even bettor.
8. He has betatesters, they can know something.
Other thing is strange. We don't have anniversary gift. We have only Drabao from holiday.
I've said this before, I'll say it again.
Beta testers *cannot!* just come into the forum and start spilling secrets.
Do we formally sign non-disclosure agreements? No. Are we considered trusted individuals who may be granted the privilege of knowing certain things that the general public doesn't? Yes. Would it be a complete violation of that trust were we to go spilling the beans in a public forum? You bet.
You want to know if/when there'll be another game? You want to know where music tracks come from? You should not turn to us. I may or may not know this or that, but these are not my secrets to tell.
yep. liked your post.
#40 (edited by Minionslayer 2021-04-10 22:53:21)
I think my brain just melted, from the first post alone.
Seriously, the entitled nature you reek is unappetising at best, and down-right rude at worst. Why do you think that you have command over Aaron to produce what ever *you* want? Why do you insist it's strange that DLC and online gifts haven't been released? There's no handbook of game developing, and this certainly wouldn't be a requirement anyhow.
We need a decent fps along hte lines of ghost recon, splinter cell, or Call of duty. If i could code I'd work on it but coding is beyond the scope of my brain to handle.
@pates: I'm going to be blunt and say this right here, right now. Unofficially, and you'll see why.
I can think of only one reason not to give you a warning. And that is that there is no official rule in the books that states one cannot post release date inquiry/where is game x? topics. That's about it. Otherwise post 1 would probably get you a caution, but post 8 a warning for continuing to press the issue.
Your post about beta testers in particular. People like you are one of the reasons many developers keep even looking for beta testers on the down low, and mostly keep it within people they've either known already, or are known to be trustable rather than randos on the forum who don't know how to keep quiet about a project for more than a day.
To the rest of you who are wondering why i so there were grounds for a warning? Simple. This is far from his first rodeo. During the Sable testing period, he pressed and pressed and pressed. Feature requests beyond the expectations of the thread. More questions tha na press crew on what happens next after Sable expired. And now here he is again to demand the Aaron release Manamon 3.
Seriously. It'll be ready when it's ready.
Now, back on Manamon 3 itself. I have a good feeling one is on the horizon given the myriad of hints dropped about Quennset.
1. The rainforest and village of Mamia, for one. Even Manamon 1 didn't have any environment from Kiarre despite the strong, strong mentions of it. I do believe the Order of Angels was mentioned in one of the newspapers in one of the houses if memory serves.
2. Lionel's mentioning of the Ittanill City stadium.
In Manamon 1, there were various mentions of the Kiarre droubt, and of Kiarre itself. Rena also wanted to go to a different country, which we later found out was Kiarre.
If the pattern between Manamon 1 and 2 continues, the nManamon 3 could very well be set in Quennset. Although, depending on the timeline and whatever became of the Order of Angels after Adam and Benjamin were exposed, one has to wonder what a Manamon 3 without freaking transportals would be like. Lol! AFter all, Logan may have started Manalyft, the feruddae-driven rideshare delivery service for Manamon from one mana hotel to the next. So long, gold. Nice knowing you.
One question though. How were Manamon beta testers chosen? To my knowledge there were no open advertisements or any conversations regarding this.
I mean: If he hasn't told you then it's probably not really your place to know, Aaron might have kept it strictly to friends and/or those he knows have enough of a reputation. The no solicitations policy does have its drawbacks though. Judging by the fact the excellent effort to correct the Manamon script has the potential to be missed by him, it is a bit worrisome for his future projects. While obviously it's not a good idea to ditch the team and go for a new one every project, it pays to diversify your closely received feedback.
@43 I can't comment on how the rest of us were chosen. I can speak for myself however, so I'll say just this one thing. I knew Aaron before he new how to code.
Obviously one other member of the testing group is a well-known Japanese audio game developer.
As for the rest, I don't know, and I figure it's none of my business.
There is absolutely zero chance that Aaron will miss my attempt to help with his script. None at all. Unless, of course, he literally starts ignoring emails, which I have no reason to believe that he'll do. I take the man at his word; he claimed awhile back that if I could provide fixes to the script, he'd implement them. Obviously, he didn't give any time limits, and I wouldn't dream of trying to insist upon one (seriously, entitled much?), but one would hope that this was a standing offer.
At some point in the next couple of days, I will be sending Aaron an email with a Dropbox link to the completed script of manamon 2; hopefully this will speak to my writing bonna fides, if nothing else.
If a Manamon 3 is in the works, I would enjoy being part of the dev team, either as a script editor, a beta tester or both. However, I think it's fair to say that Aaron and I have a somewhat adversarial relationship, which I didn't intend but which I have played a part in. I think he's stubborn and that he doesn't listen to the feedback of folks who know this sort of game better than he does. That said, I think he's taken some steps in the right direction, for sure, and his chops are improving with each game he releases. He seems to think, by contrast, that I'm pushy and that I'm apt to share anything and everything in order to prove a point. This isn't precisely true, but at times in the past, I haven't done myself any favours with my vocal opposition to certain things, and I haven't been shy about sharing emails that were pertinent. Now, given that said emails didn't contain anything super sensitive, I really didn't see a problem with showing them, but for obvious reasons I would employ a much, much tighter hold on anything official; I can keep a secret better than most.
To be frank, I feel like we have both rubbed each other the wrong way, but I also feel that there is great potential on both sides, which is part of the reason I bothered taking dozens of hours to both write a manamon 1 guide and retool the manamon 2 script in the first place.
A while ago when I asked if VGStorm was dead I think it was Trajectory who came into the topic and hinted that another game was in the works, although he didn't give any specifics
About that. I am going to run through the master's stadium and grab Mercilla's lines and add them to the script as well, making fixes where appropriate.
@47 If I did that, I shouldn't have, but I don't remember it or what I said.
What I do remember is my week-long server outage in 2019, which spawned an absolutely ridiculous conspiracy topic. I chimed in there to let everyone know that it was basically my fault (I borked the server) and I was burning the midnight oil to un-screw the thing as fast as I could.
@49, apologies, it wasn't you, it was stirlock and Omar