2009-02-14 16:35:37

Has anyone any experience with running XP or other versions of windows on a Mac using boot camp? I'm curious how accessible it is, both in terms of choosing which OS to load and regarding the keyboard differences which I know exist between the PC and the mac.

Thanks. Sort of getting tired of MS reinventing windows with every new version and looking to see what else is about in case I have to jump ship in the future.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-14 19:59:27

For some reason, it isn't letting me post my whole reply, so I'll start with this until I can get the whole thing in. It's not difficult with dual booting, it just takes getting used to. There are some keyboard differences, especially if you get a Macbook/pro. I'll try to post the whole reply later, or PM it to you for what I had. The error I was getting was "You need to fix errors" but it wouldn't list the errors.

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2009-02-14 20:11:11

Very odd, I've never seen that myself.

I would be looking at a desktop, so the macbook thing isn't so much of a worry. I'm highly impressed by the specs of the mac pro, but equally scared by the price.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-14 23:46:27

Yeah, I can understand how the price would scare you. I did notice one thing though, apparently the links here for the different topics (general, off topic) don't come across as links in Safari (mac's browser) so unless I find a fix, you would have to post in Windows.

Here is the exact error I get:
The following errors need to be corrected before the message can be posted:

and then it lists no errors. :(Again, I had a bit of a longer reply for you. I am wondering since I am tryign to post longer replies, if it thinks that it's being spammed and not letting me? Anyway, if you go Mac, let me know and I can help you immensely with things that I have learned on my own. HTH

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-02-15 06:57:10

Hmm, might have to ask Senderman about this one.

I'm curious though, how easy is it to choose your OS from boot camp? I know you have to hold down options, or alt on a non mac keyboard, but from there does it always start on Mac OS and you have to press down and enter for Windows? Or does it remember which OS you used last, put the cursor on that option, and if you forget then you can get in a muddle? Or can you press 1 for Mac OS and 2 for Windows?

Thanks for replying so far, I appreciate it. I'm just trying to work out the fine details which don't make much difference to sighted users, but can mean everything to a visually impaired user. Sadly this means they aren't very well covered in online material since it is trivial to a sighted user.

Incidentally I'm thinking along the lines of a higher end iMac, though I wish you could get them without the built in display. I'm not comfortable with that really. It will be a while before I could afford it though, which at least means they'll have brought out Snow Leopard by the time I do.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-15 10:05:27

As for booting, when you hit option the "boot" disk is the top of the list. So even if you last booted into Windows, and you have OSX as your boot disk, OSX will be on top and vice versa if you have windows as your boot disk and lastly booted into OSX. As far as I have tried, only Tab works to get to the other OS and then you hit enter. If you happen to have a bootable CD/DVD in, it's always the last in the option (Tab twice if dual booting and want to get into bootable disk, or hold either C or Option C when the drive starts to spin I forget which).

As for helping out, it's what I do and what I like to do. smile I completely understand how frustrating it can be for a totally blind user to go through this, as you said, there isn't much for help on this topic. Just about everything I learned, I had to do so on my own so there might be easier ways to do things, but the ones I use are all I know. There is one tutorial for Voice Over (but after listening to it and trying things out) I found that it's not totally correct for everything (I'll see if I can find it tomorrow and I'll post it in a reply here). I am a huuuuge proponent of the visually impaired community learning OSX and switching to the Mac. Sure, certain things are different, but most would learn a new OS and screen reader for the convenience of not having to pay up the wazoo for a screen reader, or updates every year. Unfortunately, Microsoft has top dog status in the market and that is what most places use for work. You might also want to look at eBay or Craigslist for the iMac (or even the Mac Pro). They seem to be reasonable priced most of the time (and sometimes even fairly "cheap").

P.S. Another good thing is that you can store your Voice Over settings onto a thumbdrive, plug it into any other mac running at least 10.5 Leopard, and it'll run those settings versus another users settings without messing up the host settings until you take out the thumbdrive.

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-02-15 23:42:36

Ravager, if you're using voiceover you need to interact with the headinf for each topic.  It will turn into a link after interaction - a cludgy solution for that type of thing, but it works.

I use a Mac Mini. I haven't used windows, but the specs are good enough for what I need.  Mac pros are the only ones with things like PCI slots, and I consider them far too expensive.

James

2009-02-16 06:54:35

All very useful to know indeed.

The mac pro is indeed insanely expensive, though what self respecting tech geek wouldn't drool at the thought of 8 cores?

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-17 07:19:21

ItsAConspiraZ: I wouldn't have thought of that one for a while. Thanks for that, like I said I can't find squat for help so I just learn as I go (and have never had that happen before). On another Mac note, do you have any suggestions for a good IRC client aside from Adium for Mac? I used to use conversation on my gf's computer, but apparently with the upgrade to Leopard from Tiger, Voice Over doesn't interact correctly. I can use the speech function, but can't tell who is speaking in the room (Or even if you have or know of any Applescripts because I can't find any of those either). I can no longer just  go up into the chat window and arrow through to have it speak.

And CX2, 8 cores at over 3 GHz a piece, 32 GB RAM and 4 TB drive space... I wish I knew how to make a drooling smiley.

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2009-02-17 12:03:37

Hi.

Regarding Adium, this is the best messenger client we have right now. Is your Voiceover set to Group mode or Dom mode in the Voiceover Utility? You can't read the messages if it's set to group mode.

Best regards SLJ.
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2009-02-18 00:36:24

Argh, I am sorry, I didn't mean Adium, I meant Collequy. Sorry for the mix up. But just to answer your question, it's set to Dom mode. If need be (and it's looking as if this is the only choice) I'll run OSX, run VmWare and use a Windows based IRC client.

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-02-22 21:18:19

Hey,

Don't give up.  You can probably find an accessible mac application for most things with some tenacity.  Developers are also a little more receptive to adding access into their apps, especially if they're developed using cocoa (the Mac's gui builiding stuff).  there are several accounts of helpful developers on macvisionaries.com, aa helpful mailing list to blind switchers.  Blindcooltech also has some more tutorials - one was just posted recently.  Apple also has an accessibility site with info on voiceover (including an audio manual) and lioncourt.com has mac news related to us disabled.

I've never used IRC on the mac (or on any other OS for that matter) but I think I heard some good things about xchat.  You could also try irci from the terminal (google it) but it's a text-only terminal app, so the interface would probably not be so pretty.

James

2009-02-23 09:33:00

Yeah, I tried xchat... that for some reason was a no go, but I might try it again. The one I really liked was conversation for mac, but when I emailed the creator, he said there were too many bugs or somethign for it and leopard (it was designed whenever and ran great on my GF's machine running 10.4 Tiger). I tried just about every (if not every) IRC client on The Mac Orchard's site (which is a pretty nifty site for checkign out Mac app listings.

Thanks for the places to go and visit. I have checked out one of those I think and just forget about them. sad

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-02-23 21:39:25

Thanks for pointing out lioncourt.com, the article on visiting a mac shop was pretty useful for getting an idea of how to get around the mac at a basic level and how to get into the tutorial. I haven't even touched a mac, but it helped reassure me it won't be as bad as I thought it would be to learn.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-27 09:03:56

Splendid... another one joins the ranks... I knew it would only be a little while before the peer pressure got to you... mwahahaha.

James

2009-02-27 19:34:26

Laugh, peer pressure actually has the opposite effect on me usually. I'm deeply suspicious of many things that seem "too popular", often I find they are more marketing than substance. Not so much with software though. I'm just tired of Windows trying to reinvent itself every few years, I want something which actually progresses instead of putting all its effort into wowing people but mostly just moves sideways.

I've considered Linux, but honestly it just seems like too much effort right now laugh. Tried a bootable CD and not being able to have the key commands available on the computer wasa major drawback, I really needed them open in a second computer which wasn't practical at the time for me. The mac having a tutorial hopefully will do that for me.

All this said I won't be joining the ranks until Snow Leopard at the earliest, and I'll be saving up in between.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-28 05:40:59

Heh. I have been tryign to convert visially impaired, totally blind, and everyone else I can to switch to Mac. smile
I wanted to do my best at getting away from Windows, but it seems I'll never be able to do so. sad

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-02-28 06:34:24

Give it time. On the one hand the length of time XP was about helped more people gain more confidence with computers without worrying about having to use different versions like the old mish mash, but equally now they are trying to move on to Vista and even Windows 7 people will resent being expected to change to something so different with any frequency.

The way Mac OS versions are called 10.whatever will encourage more people to move to the mac, since it makes it seem like less of a upheaval when they do upgrade if they upgrade. They could well see it as easier to make one big switch to the Mac and stay there. I've been quite technical for some time now, and I've done the whole upgrading through different versions of Windows thing, but now the new versions are less and less backwardly compatible and so on even I don't want to stick with Windows long term.

So at the same time Microsoft gained more people in the computer market with XP, but lost future business with their practice regarding new versions. People want incremental upgrades not overhauls all at once.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-28 22:47:26

That is true with what Windows is doing. I was more talking about the fact that I am trying to get into schooling for Microshaft certifications. At home, I plan on continuing with OSX though.

I sooooo dread Windows 7. With how Freedom Scientific likes to try to play catch up instead of staying on top of things, it'll be well over a year after the final release of W7 until JAWS gets a stable release for W7. On top of that, any release versions of JAWS are also the betas for the new OSs through Windows, and they are buggy until they get the final stable out for it. Talk about a pain.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that with every update/upgrade of JAWS that comes out, functionality for certain programs that are older but worked seems to disappear?

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
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2009-03-01 20:03:28

Ravager,

Again, don't give up.  I've been using my mac as my main system since the beginning of this year. I haven't used windows at all outside of work (where I have no choice); work meaning working in disabilities office (don't judge).  Games can even partially be played with something like darwine (Super Deekout notably works perfectly) and Textedit handles most document types I need (everyone can read RTF so no problems there).  I use linux on the laptop with openoffice if I need anything beefier (apparently the newest openoffice works with VO, but it runs too slowly on my mac mini).

James

2009-03-02 00:50:22

Well Draconis seem interested in putting their games onto the Mac from what I read on their site.

I'm also sure in time that even business, government and education will get fed up of Windows. I think I heard something about UK government recommending open source software to public sector organisations, and since Linux is open source and free it might do well. I'm sure Apple will have an opportunity thanks to their brand name and more marketing funds available, they just have to time their pitch right and do it well. If Apple fail I think there is a fair chance Linux will replace Windows, but it's all down to how well Apple markets at education and businesses. Linux has't the marketing power, not unless all the different brands of linux make a joint effort... but I don't know that such an effort is likely.

Here's hoping anyway, since it would mean every computer in the future might come with either VoiceOver or Orca as standard. An interesting possibility indeed.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-04 08:41:04

I've just read about the new model Macs, and I'm not impressed... but not for the reason you think.

The updates seem useful, bread and butter type ones that all companies make sooner or later. The price increases in the UK are silly though, especially given the high price of even low end Macs compared to PCs.

The low ehnd base mac mini went from

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-05 00:20:09 (edited by Ravager 2009-03-05 00:22:01)

wow, that is pretty harsh. I can't believe that they would jump the prices up that much. There is another site that does custom computers that sends them out with OSX preinstalled on it, and totally working so you can have it up and running right out of the box. Let me see if I can find that site.

*edit*

Here is that site
http://www.psystar.com/

The computers there are way more reasonable, and even after the upgraded prices, the one is cheaper then the iMac (and has no screen if you don't want that).

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-03-05 01:18:06

Thanks, I'd rather not get in a mess with customs though being in Britain.

Also oddly the standard keyboards no longer seeem to have the numpad, or the extended home/end/etc keys. There is an option to have the extended keyboard, but it's an option at the Apple store so its availibility from resellers seems dubious. Could be a problem for some people who just walk into a shop and want a mac. The extended keyboard also advertises itself as having full size arrow keys, so it sounds like they're smaller on the normal keyboard too.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-05 09:17:04

Well, first things first, the numpad in OSX is not really used that much except for the numbers and signs. You can use it for the "Keyboard Commander" but I never remember to use that function (that and something is messed up when using the keypad commander with keeping in sync with the other keys for navigation). Secondly, almost every keyboard out there that is bluetooth, wierless with it's own reciever, or USB will work on Mac. I regularly use my Logitech Cordless Wave keyboard in OSX, an off brand USB keyboard, and even used a PC only PS/2 keyboard with a USB adapter plugged in and it operates the same as the Mac keyboard (and none of them state anything about Mac compatible, but they all seem to be anyway) . The only difference is that the Command (apple key) and Option (the Alt key) are backwards in mac, where as the Mac keyboard has them backwards when you use windows. So if you plan on dual booting, either which way you go, in one system the keys are going to be reversed.

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.