Topic by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-01 16:09:34

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Now that I've had a chance to test the Xbox One preview program, I wanted to let those who might be interested know that Microsoft seem to be currently looking to expand Narrator.  So far it's available in English (US), English (UK), French, German, Italian and Spanish, likely with more languages to be added later.  When these changes will hit the consumer/stable release is unknown at this point, but the fact that they're making these changes allows people in non-US regions to use their own store, for example, without having to worry about switching to a region that they don't live in and deal with the currency issues of that particular region.  Moreover, it grants the user in these regions the ability to work with any existing Microsoft credit that they've either purchased or earned without sighted help thus allowing friends, relatives etc to buy credit for those who want it and buy what they choose at a time of their choice.

Also, Clubs and LFG (looking For Group) are accessible with Narrator and if you are a member of the preview program Microsoft are looking to hear what apps have Narrator specific issues, amongst other things.

In my personal opinion, this blows Sony's efforts, as lightly as they could be taken to mean they were complying with the laws etc, out of the water completely and proves that Microsoft are open to making an accessible gaming experience possible.

Also, in a piece of Narrator related text I read on a task I had to complete as part of the preview program, it said (if memory serves) "Narrator does not currently work with games".  I think the wording tells me everything I need to know, in that they would like it to work with games and it's really a matter of time before it does.

Let me know your thoughts on this and when you think these features will be arriving.  I speculate next year as part of the creators update, given that the event mentioning it had an introduction with Narrator involved.

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Sightless Kombat.
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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-01 17:27:58

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Interesting to know... thanks for sharing this info! Quite frankly, Sony's efforts are definitely unimpressive, but only if accessibility is a deal breaker on which console you buy. As of right now I don't have any plans on switching, since I can use my ps4, even without the tts relatively easily, just like I used to with the ps3... and there's still only one game on xbox1 I want to play. But if this gets as good as it seems to continue to get, I see two things happening. Either Sony is going to try and catch up, or things will simply to go on the way they do... which means more blind people will buy xbox1's. Not that Sony would care, given how small our market is, and I may even get 1, if there are more games that come out exclusively on xbox1 I want to play.Killer Instinct doesn't justify the purchase of a console. lol

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Reply by SLJ 2016-11-01 17:36:36

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Hi.
Wow. Thanks for this great information. Now we just need more playable games. This is currently the Playstation which have most playable games so far.
I'm having some issues with the XBox store, which I'll take a look at later on when I get more time. Would you mind if I send you a private mail regarding this? It seems like my Microsoft account is missing something regarding the store when looking at the website on my computer, but that's an other topic. Please keep us posted. I'm excited for this...

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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-01 17:52:52

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Definitely thinking about it. I'm not entirely off the fence yet, either. but as SLJ said, the ps4 has more playable games... and as I've said before, it's still the game library that matters to me the most at the end of the day. Xbox1 versions don't count as all those games like Naruto, Mortal Kombat, the upcoming injustice 2... are all available, or will be, on the ps4. And SLJ, when using the website, make sure your language is set correctly or certain things will not work, such as your credit card.

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Reply by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-01 20:43:10

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It also depends, Assault and SLJ, on what you'd consider "playable".  Personally, I'd consider Halo and Gears Of War playable, to name but two, even though to enjoy it you definitely have to have sighted players who are willing to help out involved, to varying degrees.  If I'm honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that's not your opinion, as you're sticking with PS4 so strictly.

I'm going to take a guess and say that you guys won't find anything else that you'd consider playable on the Xbox one that won't be available on PS4, which is a real shame as if you were to switch to Xbox One, you could help make the case for the game library being important as well as accessibility.

What I'm getting at is, if you think about it, Microsoft's game library isn't going to become more accessible if you've got blind users sticking to PS4 and being unwilling to work with developers for Xbox One on new experiences by playing their games and feeding back.

I mean this is just me possibly being rather blunt, but it's not intended as a personal attack on either of you - I can understand your logic as to why you want to stick to your guts as it were, but in doing so I believe that might not help matters really.

I appreciate your willingness to consider the proposition of switching though, that's half the battle.  Buying the console is the other half.  Oh by the way.  The Xbox ONe S, for size and capacity reasons, would be a far better choice currently than the Original Xbox ONe, as additionally, the new controllers that come with it work via Bluetooth under Windows 7, 8 and 10 (for varying conditions and to varying degrees of compatability) with triggers that are pressure sensetive.  This is an extra insentive as they work out of the box, without the need for complicated rigging up of Joy2Key or similar programs.  If you have any further questions feel free to ask here and I'll answer what I can.

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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-01 20:59:55

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Didn't take it as a personal attack, not at all... I'm not bashing or criticizing either, just contributing my thoughts. I wouldn't consider any game, no matter what platform, playable if you needed to have sighted players around to help you play it. Playable to me means games we can finish on our own eg most fighting games, action games such as Samurai Warriors 4, etc. It's not about me sticking to ps4... there are definitely similar games that I think are unplayable, such as Killzone: Shadowfall, the Yakuza series, etc. So the console has no baring on my opinion of what is playable and what isn't.
As for switching, I honestly doubt we would be able to make any case... the game library is going to be what it is regardless of how many blind people play it. I haven't found one single game, other than Skullgirls on PC, which I would consider truly accessible. Everything else is considered playable... which means less than 90% of the information is obtainable by us. Again, it's not that I don't want to switch... and if you can name other games that we can play independently, then I'll certainly think about it more. But last I checked, the xbox1S was the same price as the original... but I might be wrong there. lol In short, it's not a preference for a specific console... it's the games I can play and how I can justify the money I'm paying. I love my Killer Instinct.

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Reply by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-01 21:06:23

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I know you love your KI and frankly, I don't blame you.  big_smile

It's not that you have to have sighted players around to "help you play it", but that they have to back you up in a firefight for example.  You can be in the heat of battle and maybe a stray rocket/bullet/whatever hits you and downs you and you couldn't have avoided it.  Those other players can see you and work with you to get back on your feet and then you can continue to fight on as normal.  I understand what you mean by playable though, makes sense really.  I mean Hand of Fate is sort of playable anyway, that's a sort of card game come combat arena thing - pretty hard to describe really.  But given that it has cards in it you have to just be lucky. big_smile  That's PS4 though as well, but I did get it free with Games With Gold, see below.

One thing I did forget to mention is the fact that regardless if games are playable, you can get free ones through Games with gold and normally every once in a while you'll get good ones - Tekken Tag 2 was available free with GWG a while back and I've heard of other games I've wanted to try and test for playability being free as well.

Regards,
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Reply by pulseman45 2016-11-01 21:13:53 (edited by pulseman45 2016-11-01 21:18:15)

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I may be wrong, but I thought that Microsoft wanted Xbox One and PC to get the same game library (at least when it comes to Windows 10). I'm pretty sure I saw something about Killer Instinct being available on PC. I don't know how much true it is as of now, but if that's what really happens, I would prefer sticking with my PC. Even though the main reason I don't have a Xbox One is because, like said abov, there are more playable games on playstation 4.

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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-01 21:15:20

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PS plus gives you the same thing. hahaha. And if Hand of Fate is playable, I might give it a look... but again, the element of luck will ruin it for me, likely. Samurai Warriors 4, though it requires luck, is about 70% player dependent. I've finished all the campaigns in the original game, and most of the sequel. And Haylo and Gears of War, although they sound interesting, relies too much on sighted people backing you up for my personal liking, but hey, whatever floats your boat. lol If I found a first person shooter that I could at least get through the single player campaign with, I'd be a very happy camper. I've already preordered Tekken 7 on ps4.But if you know any other games which we can beat on our own, and or play against sighted people without needing other sighted people to back us up other than KI, I'd definitely be interested to know...

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Reply by aaron 2016-11-01 23:26:36

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I am also very excited about this. I am getting back into Rock Band and being able to buy songs from the console again like the good ol days will, well, rock. Rock band 4 is available on both ps4 and xbox one too, it's still good fun.
I'm wondering whre accessibility will go in the future. I'd love apps like GameDVR to work.

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Reply by devinprater 2016-11-02 05:15:01

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This just shows that Microsoft is leading the way, again. Apple just throws stuff out there, Sony hasn't updated it's TTS offering, but Microsoft just keeps pushing forward. It's amazing!

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Reply by SLJ 2016-11-02 08:20:38

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Hi.
Not having sighted friends nearby where I live, playable games is for me games which I can play on my own without sighted help, or minimal sighted help from none experienced gamers.
Wow... I never thought Gears of war is playable. I have always wanted to play those games, but if sighted help is needed, then I just can't do it. If those games are completable with some luck without sighted help, then I'm up for it. I just have no idea on how those games are playable. I remember watching a sighted guy played it back in 2007 I think.
Would you be interested to write a guide on how to play the games?

Best regards SLJ.
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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-02 08:36:47

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Devin, Sony actually did update it, three times... and each of those updates were pretty substancial. Couple that with the fact that sony also doesn't release updates as often as Microsoft does and there's at least some cover Sony can get behind. But I agree... the lack of sincere updating and care is becoming very irritating.
I'd also be interested in seeing how Gears of War is playable, if at all, without sighted help.

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Reply by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-02 10:05:46 (edited by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-02 10:07:26)

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In terms of campaign, Gears has the advantage of being playable with online co-op, as is Halo.  This means that if you're willing to make the leap and converse with sighted gamers who are open-minded and willing to play/work constructively, you'll get through the campaign.  Having completed Halo 5's campaign and working through Gears, I can say that though the experience may be tedius and frustrating at times, when you finally finish a campaign that's taken you several hours over at least 2 sessions, you'll feel relatively good about it, most likely.

With the features that you'd probably want to use not being available in the consumer OS as of yet though (I.E. Looking For Groups and Clubs), but being a part of the preview program, I'm not sure what to suggest, especially considering the above opinions regarding games library, which also make sense.

You can actually set up private matches in both Halo and Gears to allow you and anyone else to run around on an equal playing field and practice/figure things out as you go along regarding weapons etc.

I'll keep answering questions as and when I can.

Regards,
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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-03 04:50:24

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Wow, good job Mr. Canine. I literally just posted a huge topic with a ton of questions about 20 minutes ago in regards to the xbox one.
So, in terms of the ps4, what is and is not accessible with text to speech? With, and this is just my opinion, consoles getting more and more ridiculously complex how, on the ps4, for instance, do you know where you are as far as what game you're about to select, the settings menu etc? Are there text files for this stuff? If I had enough money I'd get the best of both worlds.
I actually still might - in future, of course. Do you guys use surround sound headsets to play games etc?
Had no idea about the new bluetooth controller. Though, with that being said, could I not just get the original  and just get one of the newer controllers? Or is the one s a requirement?
thanks!

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Reply by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-03 16:18:37

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@15
You could get an original One and use the One S controller with it, I believe, though will have to test.

That's pretty much all I can help with regarding this, as I don't have a PS4.

Regards,
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Reply by aaron 2016-11-03 16:33:48

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What is mr Canine?

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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-09 04:27:39

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Hi
Mr Canine was referring to me.
Anyway - looking forward to trying the xbox - assuming I do go for it. It seems that Sony just doesn't care about accessibility and while I understand that the games themselves are not (and most likely never will be) read, it's still nice to have something accessible. Especially because the more and more complicated consoles get the harder it is to remember, at least for me, where things are. It especially would be a pain in the rear to figure out what game is what on the ps4 without speech and, so far as I know, the main menu isn't read allowed unless sony has changed that.
Anyway! Just my .02.

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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-09 06:53:59

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The whole function and home screen is read, the top level of the settings menu and party and messages as always. The Library is also read. Other than that, it's still unhelpful as ever.

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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-10 02:24:51

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Hi,
Wait, so the actual menu of each setting screen is not read? E.g. display, audio etc?
Kind of sucks, but better than I thought it would be I suppose.
There are a lot of games I want that are only on ps4 - the street fighter series among others. It truly sucks there's no backwards compatibility, though. How is the ps3 for usability now days anyway? Are there guides on its menu structure at least?
thanks

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Reply by assault_freak 2016-11-10 02:35:30

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Some are, some aren't. And the ps3 for usability is fine... and there are probably guides somewhere. But I don't know... I've never used one.

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Reply by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-10 12:45:30

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@20
The PS3 isn't a "bad" system, but I don't think I've ever seen a guide for it online, though I could be incorrect on that point.  Compared to the current generation of consoles, whilst it's still good and has exclusives like Heavenly sword, I would suggest going for a PS4 or Xbox One given that you can get help on either one pretty readily from either myself or a fellow Xbox One user, or the same with Assault_freak and other PS4 community members.

I'd say the Xbox One currently has better accessibility and I'm not trying to be biased, just stating facts in terms of a comparison.  That and you'll be able to test the accessibility features as they are developed as part of the Xbox Insider Program (Previously the Xbox Preview Program) and provide feedback via that should you so wish.

Regards,
Sightless Kombat.
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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-10 18:29:14

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Hi Sightless,
Must I own an xbox one before I enter myself into the preview?
I'm seeing a way to install the latest update offline without an internet connection by booting into recovery mode with a thumb drive plugged in with the update on it already.
I'm sure you yourself haven't done this, it's just a curiosity of mine.
Thanks

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Reply by Sightless Kombat 2016-11-10 19:43:18

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As far as i know, the Preview Program (now called the Insider Program) mgiht soon be open to all users.  When that'll be?  We just don't know.  But you'll still have to opt into it.

That's basically your question answered as far as I can see, sorry if the response was a little short.

Regards,
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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-11 02:43:04

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Hi,
Who is eligible for it right now? I'm curious.
I thought it was like the windows insider program?
thanks

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