2024-01-27 22:55:50

Warnings are pointless. Warnings do nothing. If someone is convinced of their opinion, being told to quit it by a moderator, none of whom are particularly respected these days, isn’t going to change their mind, or get them to reflect on the behaviour. Plus, they expire in thirty days. I think bans are a much better way of imposing stability. Anything worthy of a warning should instead receive a 1 week ban. This of course might mean that the rate at which warnings expire would need adjusting.
Too many people in this community, including myself I admit, are perfectly happy to take a warning to say something that needs to be said because it holds no consequences (see politics topic).
At the end of the day, posting on this forum is a luxury. not having that luxury doesn't hurt anyone, and forces people to actually reconsider their behaviour rather than completely ignoring the pointless warning.

2024-01-27 23:02:21 (edited by Jaseoffire 2024-01-27 23:05:04)

Actually, we monitor within 90 days. In other words, accrew 3 warnings within 90 days, then we do the banning. Time to sound like an old man, but... Back in my day, warnings were only meaningful on paper. They were basically cautions, and after a random number of them you were banished for a random period. The idea is that if you really only fly off the handle every once in a while, you probably aren't that big of a problem to begin with. If you cause a great number of issues, then we get rid of you for a long while. We also have cautions which are pretty much just gentle nudges. The system assumes good faith, and when people start acting in bad faith, we have community failure. It also works for things that aren't exactly rules, but really, you should no better. As used in that very topic, actually.

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2024-01-27 23:48:44

At least they don't seem to be giving out cautions anymore. God those were even more pointless than warnings.

2024-01-28 03:18:12

If you're the kind of person who tends to post things that get warnings, but are careful enough to back off when you think you might be getting close to the edge, that will become obvious sooner or later. That's when the community failure clause would kick in, and you would catch a ban for something that you would have otherwise just been given a warning for. At least, I assume that's how that would work.

2024-01-29 00:12:04

Shorter bans ftw. IMO, going 1day - 3days - 7days - 14days - 30days - 60days - 90days - 6months - 1y - permanent seems a more useful escalation. It would require careful judgment from mods, though. Ex, someone who gets cranky and causes trouble once a year probably doesn't keep escalating one level annually. Someone who treats the rules as optional annoyances and can't take the hint could stand more rapid escalation.
Of course people don't care for the moderation, here. IME, if you have strong moderation and a community at risk of bursting into flames, mutual disdain for the authorities ruining your virtual terf war is inevitable. I'm not sure positive vs negative feelings toward the mods is a good metric for their actual value. You need to know more about the community and how people join / leave / etc to make that call.

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2024-01-29 07:27:24

@5, I kinda agree, but enforcing that could pruve to be quite tough given the number of mods, and that this would have to be probably on a case by case basis, and that we'd probably need more people to step up as mods for this to work as intended.

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2024-01-29 12:38:13

Okay, let's talk my views on this:
Warnings lead up to bans. If there was no warnings, one of 2 things would happen: (1) there would be no bans or (2) People's infractions would be tallied without them knowing. Then they'd be banned out of the blue, almost. Makes perfect sense to me, that we should let people be warned a few times, reminded they are bleaking the rules, and given more chances, and if enough of those warnings (3 is fine) tally up, a ban happens.

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2024-01-29 21:27:16

@2, sorry the 90 day thing was a bit of a brain fart.
I think I need to clarify, though, because I don't think I've explained myself very well.
How many times have you seen a user say "I'm going to get a warning for this, but", and continue to do the thing they're going to get a waring for? it's quite common. People do it because as long as you're not doing it super frequently, more than once every three months, there are no consiquences for it. Granny got away with that stuff for years, and so have many others. I don't think these people should be banned permenently, but I also don't think a warning is much of a warning if the person getting the warning is perfectly aware they've broken the rules. It isn't warning them of anything. It is also not how any online community other than this one is run. I don't even think people should get a first warning. If you break any rule, you get a day long ban. each subsequent violation gets you a longer ban until it becomes permanent. Losing access to the forums for a day isn't much of a punishment, but it is a tangible thing and forces you to consider why you were banned.
The community failure clause should be a last ditch solution, not the default way of banning people.

2024-01-29 21:37:14

Over use of community failure is pretty true. I don't think this was meant to handle the situation where we've got like 3-4 admins and 1 mod. As for the bans as opposed to warnings, the unique culture of this forum would probably explode. As for people knowingly breaking the rules, that's a problem with justice as a whole. Even in the real world you've got people who say I'm going to go to prison for this but... If we didn't, managing a state would be so much easier.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
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2024-01-29 21:56:25

Fundamentally, people only follow the rules if there are consequences. presumably if someone is posting here, they would like to be able to continue posting here. the current rules allow you to go off the handle once every 6 months and keep that right with no interruptions, until eventually you get community failured. This is an innefficient system.
As for people exploding? Let them. They're perfectly allowed to lose their shit over being banned. and if they'd like it to stop happening to them, they'll start following the rules. Otherwise, they'll be gone much quicker and everyone else can go back to discussing audio games.
You're also wrong about the justice system. No one says I'll go to prison for this and does it anyways unless there are a lot of external factors at play (mental illness, extreme revenge, ETC). On the internet, it's just a hyperbolic thing people say. It doesn't fit with their real world actions because there are, in fact, consiquences for going to prison.
I'm also curious to know what you think is worth preserving about the current culture of moderation on this forum. It is, objectively, a much more toxic place than it was 5 years ago. Personally, I think that's because the rules of this website, in a lot of ways, aren't representative of how the average online community is run, with warnings being the biggest offender. Perhaps it's worth changing how things are done and dealing with the temporary explosion.

2024-01-30 06:28:44

I can't speak for others, but I'm not sure I would even notice a 1 day ban considering I don't even consistantly visit the forum every day. Granted, in general, my compliance with the rules, and even with the law is mostly coincidence rather than any conscious effort to comply.

And maybe there are some problem users either banking on overworked mods not noticing something or gaming the system to strategically break rules without ever getting banned, but honestly, a system that basically lets the once-in-a-blue-moon major breaches of conduct slip with a scolding and reserves bans for the habitual rule breakers seems like a reasonable middle ground between the forum being run like a totalitarian dictatorship and being a completely unmoderated wild west.

2024-02-07 00:48:07

Yes, community failure is overused. It’s what a mods uses to make people sorry for them and when they're annoyed with a user. And it never does anything, its not a permaban or what a real community-failing user deserves, its just empty words, and it doesn't mean anything roll

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