2020-04-24 12:35:11

Hi,
Any plans to implement emoji support? If you insert an emoji and submit your post, you get a nice database error about invalid strings and all that. It's 2020...

2020-04-24 13:46:43

You have got to be kidding.
This, honestly proves the point that this forum system could be obsolete, yes it's accessible but this is, as you say very rightly so, 2020.

2020-04-24 17:09:40

No. Please, please don't. Those things need to die in a fire. A large one.

2020-04-24 23:11:10

Um, yeah, sure they do. And  you need to get used to how the world works. Thankfully they are nowadays perfectly accessible on pretty much any platform.

2020-04-25 02:25:06

Oh sure they're accessible, but they're still often spammy as fuck. I also kind of don't understand what the point of having them on a forum post would be anyway, I mean most people access this site using a computer, and usually windows at that, so it's not like most people will even be able to type them in the first place.

2020-04-25 03:04:14 (edited by Dan Gero 2020-04-25 03:06:36)

Nerdcasm, have you ever tried pressing windows + period on your keyboard?

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2020-04-25 03:09:30

I will however mention that this only works on Windows 10. However, for other versions, there is an NVDA addon.

2020-04-25 09:43:04

Lol, I actually didn't know how to access the keyboard imogies on Windows 10.

Whilst I do agree not having them is a bit of an oversight, at the same time, I can't really say I miss them, or that they'd be top on the list of stuff I'd like to see added to this forum in the future, unless people think the intellectual content of this forum could be improved by lots of smily faces, hearts or grins or the like, particularly because most people here are using screen readers, and to a screen reader just writing "smile" and an  imogee are the same thing.

Actually, my lady often writes "smile" or "wry grin" or the like on various messages for that very reason.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2020-04-25 13:53:00

I actually didn't know about this either.

2020-04-25 14:56:52

I can't even describe how weird it looks when you write the word smile, big grin, laugh, and so on. If I will write down that I am laughing, I will probably do it in another form, for example I'm laughing at this post, or this really put a smile on my face. Normally, it should not even be something that needs adding to the forum. It's not a feature, it's a flaw of the current system. I can't think of anything right now that doesn't support them. Confirmed the error with this post.

2020-04-25 15:58:24

i don't mind typing them at all or seeing them because  they doesn't matter to me, kinda of a  way to express your feelings but like you said  there isn't a difrents when it comes to screen readers, however i wish they were supported here. also i didn't know about the windows+. things gotta try it out

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2020-04-25 16:05:22

Interesting to see that so many people don't realize this shortcut exists. Probably due to a stupid limitation that it only works on some keyboard layouts and not all, as if those aren't universal signs.

2020-04-25 16:17:05

I'm just repeating the points others have made before me at this point but yes, this forum not supporting emojis is a pretty bad thing. They are supported pretty much everywhere else.

It might be more acceptable if there was at least a decent amount of smileys for us to use, but there isn't. The Smilies page lists just 12. I actually thought it was 13; wasn't there a :hmm: one at some point? Am I going crazy?

When an argument starts on the forum, there is almost always someone who points out how hard it is to figure out someone's tone from text alone, especially with people using different screen reader voices with different inflections. The main purpose of emojis is to convey emotion where text can't do it well enough. I think that even for a forum with a primarily blind membership, that's pretty useful.

And no, just writing "Grin" or "Laugh" is not an acceptable alternative in my opinion. Simple emoticons like ^_^ or slang like LOL or /s (for sarcasm) work well enough. But actually writing out the names of emojis just makes us stand out even more. Have you ever seen a sighted person do that? I haven't.

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2020-04-25 17:54:01

By the same logic expressed in post 13 I cannot be something I'm not.  Being able to write :d smile or whatever other variation and or almost graphic representation of something that I cannot see has always been one of those things I mostly shye away from publically.  Where I might use them in a private conversation and that mostly with someone I know who is sighted and needs them for their own personal comfort I don't generally feel the need to litter my page, posts or messages with the things.  If my posts do not reflect what I'm trying to post without me adding a hundred winking faces and a tongue that sticks out at an odd angle, then it probably isn't worth reading.  The closest I can get to an analogy is that good burgers and fries don't seriously need Ketchup if they're good; that the Ketchup is there is more of a bonus.

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2020-04-25 21:17:08 (edited by Jaseoffire 2020-04-25 21:20:49)

Right. Let's see what happens if I... ☺☻♥♣♠•○ These are what I could type without breaking something.
◘ ♦
These are of course unicode symbols that seem to be with in acceptable range. Emojis are also in the unicode set, correct? How high of a unicode count does this forum accept before breaking?

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2020-04-25 21:20:56

2 things here.
As a Gen Z person, I can say I don't really fancy emojis. I use them, but I don't overuse them. They're good to have, but unacceptable? Nah.
2. This isn't a BBM chat. Its a discussion forum. People get annoyed when you write rofl, or lol, or hahahahahahahah. If we were to use Emojis the way they were intended, people would quickly get annoyed.
And as I'm writing this, a third point came in my head.
3. What's the point of requesting feature requests when you know they won't be added? Come on people. Stop acting so surprised when you find out new feature aren't added to the forum. Its pretty annoying to see people be like, "OOOOOOOOO! I wwant feature z to be added asap! add it now! add it! add it! add it!" When they already know the situation with the admins.

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2020-04-26 11:10:00

... I saw this topic yesterday, and thought it said "this forum doesn't support images". Thanks, Samantha.
It's kinda weird, since the Japanese in my signature works fine. They're both Unicode, right? Is there something weird with the encoding that makes emojis fail, but not Japanese or Braille?

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2020-04-26 11:31:49 (edited by Dark 2020-04-26 11:35:02)

I suspect that adding imogies would be less difficult, since there's probably a fairly basic PunBB upgrade or extension that could be loaded onto the forum.

To be honest though, my personal problem is that so much communication goes down to nothing but! imogies.

it's not a new thing, how often in the early 2000's were there posts, replies or comments that were just "Rofl" or "lol" or a keyboard smily face or wink or the like.

However, the point is this is a discussion! forum, not a chat program or a text messaging ap. A discussion forum implies actual discussion, which means something useful to contribute to the conversation, an opinion, an idea, a long and wordy post like this one big_smile.

Would adding Imogies encourage more one imogy posts? or would it be a way for people to give context in their feelings to the words they write.
I honestly don't know.

I'll drop Sander an email with a link to this topic and the opinions expressed and see what he thinks to the matter, since if indeed it is an easy thing to add, we could just try it out and see.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2020-04-26 11:59:43

Yeah, emoji's are widely used these days.

2020-04-26 12:20:26

who cares just make them up. winking pooh with swamp shirt on.

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2020-04-26 13:07:01

Good point; really, isn't it easier to just type the description, anyway? That's all we're getting, after all. hmm

看過來!
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MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2020-04-26 16:31:13 (edited by Munawar 2020-04-26 16:34:24)

The common sentiment here seems to be "hey, we're a blind forum...we don't need emojis," but as @13 and others have pointed out, substituting text equivalents just makes us stand out as "that special forum" (my words in quotes.) Can you imagine what we'd all say if a sighted person came on here and said "I see a lot of blind people dress down...oh yeah, you're blind so you don't really need suits and ties?" I can picture the reactions now. "We can do everything that sighted people can do! Don't count us out just because we're blind! ... etc."

This sounds like a cop-out to me. Because you're blind, you don't need it. Wrong. I use emojis in text and even in Emails nowadays to regularly express emotions that @13 has rightfully mentioned can't really be expressed in other ways:

Mayana wrote:

When an argument starts on the forum, there is almost always someone who points out how hard it is to figure out someone's tone from text alone, especially with people using different screen reader voices with different inflections. The main purpose of emojis is to convey emotion where text can't do it well enough. I think that even for a forum with a primarily blind membership, that's pretty useful.

Jaidon Of the Caribbean wrote:

And as I'm writing this, a third point came in my head.
3. What's the point of requesting feature requests when you know they won't be added? Come on people. Stop acting so surprised when you find out new feature aren't added to the forum. Its pretty annoying to see people be like, "OOOOOOOOO! I wwant feature z to be added asap! add it now! add it! add it! add it!" When they already know the situation with the admins.

Calm down man, no one here said "we must add this immediately!" My OP merely pointed out that it's 2020. I even looked through the rest of the post before yours and nope, no one has demanded emoji support. We're only stating the obvious here. I understand the quarantine and things are getting to you, but let's attempt to remain sensible and find healthier outlets for our frustrations.

dark wrote:

Would adding Imogies encourage more one imogy posts? or would it be a way for people to give context in their feelings to the words they write.

That's a great question. My answer to this is that it should be up to the users of the forum; not a bunch of us deciding that it's not needed since we're a blindness-related forum.

Also re: discussion forum versus chat program, I see emojis used on forums all the time and even tend to do so myself. They're really useful because of the amount of expression you can convey. I don't distinguish between blind and sighted on this one; even if I'm writing to a blind person, I employ emojis in many ways (and I see my friends doing the same thing--even those that are blind.)

One of my biggest frustrations with RS Games in particular is that you can't send emojis as part of your chat message, and I daresay they probably use the same argument given here: we're a blind gaming platform...we don't need it.

Emojis have either made me laugh or roll my eyes because the tone is much more clear than straight, dry text as @13 has pointed out already.

For example, how many of us use at least three exclamation marks in iOS text messages because the "natural" voices don't read exclamation marks? I'm raising my hand on this one. And why do we do it? Because we're used to synthesizers like Eloquence actually inflecting on exclamation marks, and when the synthesizers forced on us by Apple don't inflect, it takes away totally from the meaning of the message. I prefer reading messages in Braille versus listening to them for this very reason. Sighted people aren't aware that our voice programs don't indicate exclamation marks, and man am I surprised how much of the tone I miss without a display. "hi." is much more different than "Hi!" Unfortunately, natural voices inflect the same way on both versions. This is how I see emojis. Yes, I resisted them at first but have grown to love them over time.

2020-04-26 17:59:17

I agree with 22. Emojis are incredibly useful, and there is absolutely no excuse not for this forum to support it. This is 2020, not 1992. Writing out emoji descriptions is akin to you being in a room with someone and saying your expressions instead of just allowing the other person (who might be sited) to figure it out based on all the information communicable by voice (and, if applicable, your expressions, emotions, and other visual cues).

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2020-04-26 18:49:13

I should just say about RS games, I doubt they have anything against emoji, simply the way their server was designed. They in fact don't support UTF8 at all, so if you are not an English speaker, writing language specific letters won't really work. It will probably for the Ansi encoding such as French accents, but something like Japanese or Russian would most certainly fail. I agree with your post though. Being that it just gives a database error, I would assume this is just a bug somewhere, but I have not tested to see if other Pun BB forums support emoji.

2020-04-26 19:26:59

Yeah smile expressing tone on forums was impossible prior to emojis lol and I'm totally writing words for tongue rather than two ascii characters.
TBH I still use emoticons even where emojis are supported, if applicable, because it's much, much less hassle than stopping to switch keyboards and search through the list. Sure, I can't make a smiling pile of poo or abbreviate food items even though it'd've been quicker to type "pizza" than look for the pizza emoji, but on the off chance I do need to fill my post with rainbows, spiders, or handsigns and shrugs ...' well, if I want it that badly, then fine, I'll go hunt down the emoji.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.