2019-12-27 02:52:07

Hi. I was wondring about this longer. Why is reviving topics forbidn? I think it better then having 3000000 topics about same thing.

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2019-12-27 02:58:37

I still have that question, even after people were needlessly complaining about it. I mean, sure, in certain circumstances this is unnecessary and shouldn't be allowed, but a lot of the time there's nothing wrong with resurrecting old discussions and I can't understand why there are people who are 100 percent against any form of resurrection, productive or not.

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I don't mind if you disagree with my opinions, but if you're going to dismiss something I say, please explain why you don't agree with me. You don't have to, but it helps me understand you better. I don't like when I write out my thoughts about something and try to make people understand my opinions, only to be told I'm wrong and not be told why someone thinks that.

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2019-12-27 03:37:56

Better  yet. If its not allowed, why are old topics still, here. Its like oh yeah lets leave that there but nobody can post in it if its 3 or more years old. Yeah no.

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oh gad Would you just look over there? There, in the corner, right there...
Its all going down hill. I don't have much hope for this. Who cares though. Not me.

2019-12-27 04:12:15

Um, ok by that logic let's delete like a decades worth of history? Um no. Twitter and Facebook are happy to share that mentality, but this is a forum not a chat system.
As for thread necromancy: I don't think people have much of a problem with thread necromancy in general so much as the users who do it for stupid reasons. I.e. actually resorecting a good discussion is fine, asking for a link for a game that was hosted on a non-permanent storage location when the game is more than 3 years old? Publicly? Now that's a problem.
There's two sides to that issue. On one hand we can argue that people should not be using file storage as if it were a permanent host for their games (developers take not, it's for your own good). But in that topic about Omar's Killer game, I imagine him to be pretty young and thus not able to afford a good reliable web-hosting plan that didn't have some hidden file-size limitation. Anyone can evolve overtime, though.
On the other side of the tracks, if you want a game that bad and you know the thread is dated, for the love of all that's good either make a new topic about it or contact the dev privately. Resorecting the topic to ask for it is a very! bad way to go about doing things as it can confuse many users into thinking this game or discussion is recent and even relevant. Not everyone reads the date information, experienced screen-reader users (myself included) will happily skip past the three headings and the list. So there. Thread necromancy itself is not bad, just don't do it in cases where there is literally no rhyme or reason to.
To long-time members, why worry? More than half of you aren't even doing this so there isn't much of a reason to raise the alarms, unless of course you're going to go on a thread necromancy spree which I doubt any of us are.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-12-27 04:23:31

I have always thought we should do something like Reddit does and lock old topics after a couple of years. I wouldn't have a problem with someone posting in an old topic, but I hate it when people bring back a topic that hasn’t had a post for over 10 years.  If the topics were locked, it would free up the admins and mods to do other stuff. I am sure they get tired of warning people about that.

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2019-12-27 07:35:48

@swigjr23
1. Does Pun-BB even have a thing for that?
2. Not everyone partakes in malicious thread necromancy.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-12-27 09:19:16

It frustrates me, to think that "thread necromancy" is a punishable offense in all cases.
Certainly, if someone does it just to spam others, give a warning.
But in many cases, there are new people on the forums who may read a thread from four or five years ago. They may have questions, commentary, something new to say about an "old" game. They may even be trying to revive interest in, or gain interest for, a game that they believe is worth it. Reviving a topic may bring a whole new audience to that game. It makes no sense to me to punish people for that, and/or clutter the forum with duplicate topics.
Why not do something where a thread automatically moves from "new releases" to "general discussion" after 60 or 90 days, as a response to those who complain about "old" games being at the top of the "new releases" section.
One last thing.
The idea of thread necromancy as a punishable offense is a symptom of a bigger problem that has attached itself to this forum in the last three years or so, and that problem consists of petty quarrels, bitterness, drama, and hateful behavior between forum members. It has degraded the experience of this forum significantly, and it is my hope that somehow, some way, the members of this forum will refocus on their love of gaming, and turn away from all the negativity.

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2019-12-27 13:34:31

the fact is there is no topic limitations, its easyer to post a new one rather then confuse the f out of the people

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2019-12-27 15:08:46

@jack

I am not sure if it does or not. I do agree not everyone is doing wrong by bringing back an old topic, but if it could be even setup here, it would be fair. I was thinking the time limit could be something like any topic older than 5 years could be locked.

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2019-12-27 15:25:03

Yeah. Topics like the Manamon topic should be moved. M2 hasa topic in general games made by Jayd. Its less annoying just to make a new topics
Also, if the mods took 5 minutes a day to close old topix we would be rid of that for him annoyance

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2019-12-27 17:40:05

@9 and @10 That goes entirely against what Mirage was trying to say. Thread necromancy should not be a punishable offense for anyone who uses it. Closing old topics goes directly against that sentiment. I've more or less never had a problem with thread necromancy unless it was used as spam or if it's used to ask for the link to an old game. I seriously thought Omar's game was new, because I speed past the headings with the date, so it wasn't until someone revived the thread that I realized, whoa this game is 4 years old and on a non-future proof link, of course it's going to be unavailable. I haven't got a problem with thread necromancy in general and I'm not even losing sleep over this particular one, it can just be confusing at times. But like I said, the bigger problem is that developers need to start getting actual websites to host games on and not flopbox or anything similar. Worst case scenario, have this bit of advice straight from the Audiogames archive, we're happy to help on these conditions.

faq wrote:

Can I link to your copy of my game from my website?
While we'd like to be the primary source for as few active titles as possible (to allow us to focus on abandoned games and those unavailable through other means), we do understand that web hosting can be costly, especially if you're releasing free games. For this reason, we're fine if you want to provide our link as an option to download your titles.
However, please be aware that we're not here to be constantly updating the website with new versions of actively developed titles, and we do prefer that you find some way of distributing your game yourself. If you have a stable product we're happy to help you get it out to the community, but be aware that every update you make requires time, and the more we spend updating active games is less we can spend on older ones.
In short, the archive is intended to be a backup source for accessing games; we're happy to provide that service for your titles as well, but we cannot function as a web host for the entire audiogames community.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-12-27 19:05:30

As far as threadcromancy goes, I never have and never really will have a problem with it, save when it's me who ends up looking stupid because I posted in a topic that seemed new but was actually old.  Who's fault is that though?  Mine, for not looking at dates.  I've shared in some awesome topic resurrection; so have others on this topic, such as Jack, who always manages to find ways to link back to the past when a topic seems to merrit such action.  Weapons of mass cuncussion, anyone?
I know that not too long after I left the mod panel someone, and I'm not going to say who it was because I honestly don't remember who it was made a topic concerning this very subject and it was taken rather seriously.  I'm going to try and find it just in case it'll shed some further light on this issue.  Suffice it to say that the more recent members of the moderation panel have taken to it rather heavy handedly.  This is not a jab at any one of them; I somewhat understand the issue and sympathise.  In many ways threadcromancy or topic resurrection seems entirely legit since topics aren't ever closed unless we're trying to nuke a discussion that has either run its course or is serving no legit purpose other than to fuel further flaming.  It's mostly harmless and can sometimes lead to what I feel amounts to finding gems in a huge closet or attic or what have you with tons of stuff piled around it.  On the other hand, it can be annoying to some people to see topics come back that are mega old.  it's hard to police such a thing on a case by case basis, so it almost makes more sense to try and nip it before it gets too far out of hand.

I do not know what my future holds, but I do know who holds my future.

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2019-12-27 19:10:56

People usually aren't warned or even cautioned unless the necromancy is pretty much needless. If you just happened to revive a years-old topic for a game that is still around or that you have questions on, that's not so bad. But if you're, I dunno, opening up a thread from 2005, and your only info in the post is "k cool", that's...kind of annoying, and we'd rather you not do it.

I have little problem with the practice until or unless it starts confusing or upsetting people. Even then, there are far bigger problems to be dealing with. As such, count me as a staff member who'd rather there be a good reason for thread necromancy but who doesn't disallow it or sneer at it in principle.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-12-27 21:04:40

I think that there should be a limit to how far back you can go. If you deliberately resurrect a topic from 2007, for example, I think there should be a *really* good reason for it, because you had to deliberately go looking for it. As for the thread necromancy being a supposedly larger issue that has clung to this forum as post 7 indicated, this isn't necessarily true. May Reddit groups disallow thread necromancy, and I've known other forums that disallow thread bumping as well because it gets downright irritating.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-12-27 22:22:18

Well, I have a different sentiment to him

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2019-12-27 22:34:50

Honestly the stuff that frustrates me about thread necromancy is when someone answers a question that was asked over 5 years ago that probably would have been answered by another person.

A winner is you!
—Urban Champion

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2019-12-28 01:59:48

it's not gonna be deleted; it's safe and sound on
https://web.archive.org

It is not strength or talent, but courage and persistance that bring reward and happiness.
-Rory Michie, 2020

2019-12-29 00:31:50

@RoriGAmes: Nope, sql databases don't work quite the same way. There are a great many threads that you can find the respective order they appeared, but the actual thread content doesn't always make its way into snapshots. There are many reasons why this can happen, one more recent explanation is some bigger name sites literally banning bulk-retreival which is exactly what archivers need to do *I'm looking at you, Yahoo*. But we all know how big megacorps feel about preservation - out with the old, in with the new. The second reason is just because snapshots aren't perfect, they aren't taken daily, and content comes and goes in between captures.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-12-31 12:53:35

I love Nocturnus's phrasing, "finding gems in a huge attic with lots of stuff piled around it."
That was my sentiment, but I didn't say it with near as much eloquence.
Take for example, Cthulumud, based on H.P. Lovecraft's books.
I found that Mud and revived an old thread, because I was sso intrigued at the unique theme.
In cases like that, threadcromancy can be a really good thing, potentially bringing new players to a "hidden" game.

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2020-01-07 02:24:20

My issue with disallowing it, or creating a culture where you feel like you're going to get a slap on the wrist if you do, is all the needless smaller subthreads popping out of what should be a cut and dried issue. Take, for example, the spate of accessibility of antivirus solutions threads that were a thing a couple of months ago. It took a lot of self-control to not tell people to post in the 20 already existing, and helpful, topics about the same thing. Maybe it's just me, but that drives me nuts, and is far more of a problem than any thread necromancy would ever be in my eyes.

There's also the issue that, historically, threads are only closed on this particular forum when they're causing trouble. Start closing old threads now, even if you do it quietly, and a certain subset of members will be screaming about why it's happening, and blowing it way out of proportion. I don't like the idea of closing old topics myself, since they're not causing any harm, and would be needless busywork for the mods anyway.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

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2020-01-07 02:57:12

I'm with turtlepower17 on this one. Topic necromancy in of itself is not an issue, it's the way people use it that could present problems. Luckily, it seems like the mods take intent into account when making decisions regarding topic necromancy. However, I think people are afraid to do so because the guidelines are not very clear on what kind of necromancy is legitimate or not in my personal opinion, hence people making 20-30 topics about the same thing over and over.

Forum Guidelines]6. Please do not revive very old topics without a good reason. If the last post in a thread is from a long time ago and the topic has clearly been quiet, please post elsewhere or create your own topic. Some threads go silent for awhile, only to legitimately flare up again later. This is fine, so long as it's not being done repeatedly and with no good reason. Excessive "thread necromancy" - raising threads from the dead - may be grounds for a caution or a warning if it continues unchecked.

As said, threads go silent only to legitimately flair up again. How do you guys determine what is legit and what isn't? I personally think it would be good to highlight some examples in the guidelines so this issue isn't such a grey area.

Signature start:
I don't mind if you disagree with my opinions, but if you're going to dismiss something I say, please explain why you don't agree with me. You don't have to, but it helps me understand you better. I don't like when I write out my thoughts about something and try to make people understand my opinions, only to be told I'm wrong and not be told why someone thinks that.

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2020-01-08 00:03:06

We only tend to act when it is clearly not a legitimate reraising of a thread.
For instance, if you revive a thread from 2007 and say "Hey link is broken pls fix", that's probably not realistic because we're dealing with a link that is twelve years out of date, minimum. Or if all you say is "cool" when you bring a 2005 thread back, that's not legitimate. But if you're, I dunno, playing A Hero's Call or have a question about the iPhone 5 and the thread's a couple years old, that's not so much a problem.

I dunno. I feel like questions about legitimacy aren't necessarily being asked in good faith. If you can point to more than one scenario where we've punished someone for raising a topic that you consider wholly legitimate, I'm all ears. I, personally, do take account into effect, and it's usually pretty freaking easy to tell who's doing it for legitimate reasons and who's doing it just to troll.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-01-09 09:10:54

I, personally, don't believe that people are being harshly punished, at least not from what I've seen. The problem I mentioned in my previous post could be attributed as much to sheer laziness as it could be to a lack of understanding of the rule. It just irritates the crap out of me when I do see similar questions cropping up all around the same time, when a simple search would most likely bring up a thread you could post in.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

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2020-01-09 20:57:19

You know, this has been bugging me, but this whole matter seems to be more of a spam issue. Switching the necromancy topic to this context for a moment, I think we might be better served in determining good and bad use of TN. Do the spam rules only apply to bot users? Even then, save for some annoying, and obviously fairly easy to identify circumstances, bots only post one or two messages. Extending then this rule to human users, what makes a message spammy? Is it the off-topic nature of it? Is it the advertisements to get your complementary viruses? The idea here is why can't  we just attach most of this at the foot of a spam policy and call  it a day. As it seems the trouble may not be the necromancy itself, but rather the pointless, or dare I say spammy, messages that bring topics up that really serve no purpose. I don't know. Just something that popped in my head.

I have a website now.

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