2009-01-23 02:23:37

Does anyone have experience with the Miniature war game Warhammer 40,000 (40k) ?
I'm starting out, and want to make some accessible modifications.

Cheers,

2009-01-31 14:11:06

I dabbled as a young teen, then sort of grew out of it. I am interested in trying to accessify games of this type though, which could also spill over to such things as D&D.

Tell me what you had in mind and we might be able to bounce some ideas around.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-01-31 16:03:13

The idea would be an easy measurable way to move the units. I've thought of using a very large pegboard, with holes each inch. Then, one can tactically feel measurements.

Or, getting a sheet of plastic, and cutting small squares (for inches) that can be felt.

I've also heard of someone using a Battleship board and pegs for tactics, telling others where to move their units.

PS - I used to be a DM in highschool. D&D and D20 Modern. Great times! I found a lot of programs to help generate cities and npcs.

Chees,

2009-01-31 16:26:12

Hmm interesting ideas, and strikingly similar to mine if different in materials. Not sure about the peg boards, can you get ones big enough? Or maybe jam enough together? As I recall you need a seriously large space, but it is a very interesting idea indeed. We would have to find a way to deal with vehicles though.

I found somewhere that sells big 60 by 60cm (24 inch square) sheets of craft foam, pretty solid stuff. I had thought of putting a magnetic layer on that, breaking it down into 30cm (12 inch) squares which you could attach together using velcro along the edges. Then with small magnets discretly under the bases the models could be used on it without risk of being knocked. I had considered putting some type of thick twine or something to make a grid, though this would be awkward to do and would need a lot of sighted help. I had also considered a variation with a fabric mat and having a magnet put underneath it centred in each square to allow the magnetism. The idea with both is to make them easily stored. The foam sections also has the advantage you can make it into whatever size you like, and could potentially use it for D&D for example since you can now get the books in PDF format... or whatever RPG you wish as an aid to the imaginationally challenged.

Of course these ideas all have trouble with what to do about hills and other similar terrain that you need to be able to put units on. This is before you even get to rules considerations, but if we can get find a solution for the physical aspect then we're half way there at least.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-01-31 16:31:19

Well, I think it might be simple for terrain. Set up a hill, for example, and explain that it covers a 2in x 4 in space. If you're doing the pegboard idea, then you could get small pegs that fit into the board. That way they could be moved easily.

Vehicles could be measured by their bases. Imagine a gigantic Tyranid Carniflex. You could say that it had a 2in or 3in base, and measure movement by the tip of the base.

Cheers,

2009-01-31 16:47:49

Very good ideas indeed. Unfortunately all my searches for somewhere that sells peg boards ends up with rubbish, half of it being those silly boards shops use to hang stock from.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-01-31 17:06:15

Okay still not turning up much on that front, but I think with sighted assistance it should be possible to cobble something together in that regard. We would just have to work out how to deal with diagonals, I believe there are three possible methods -
Diagonals count as 1
Diagonals count double
Diagonals count as 1.5, though this complicates things.
These are the solutions I've known of at any rate.

We also would need to work out how to get at the rules, but that is more of a game specific issue.

This seems definitely doable with some work.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-01-31 17:10:27 (edited by phalos 2009-01-31 17:11:06)

I've scanned the rules into text.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/tsh1rw

Will try to get to the local store next week, and see if anyone can help with building a board.

Cheers,

2009-01-31 17:51:44

Right now I'm considering hybridising ideas, which I've done as I've gone along thinking about this type of thing, and am considering using the foam for the board. I got them to send me a sample and it is very sturdy stuff, but should be easier to deal with than wood I hope. Fingers crossed at any rate.

I know GW released free PDF versions of their rules for other games such as Epic Armageddon, but now it's behind their main front end which asks you to select your region and is completely inaccessible sadly. This also regrettably prevents me from using their online store.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-04 18:43:20

Just a small thought, have you considered Epic instead? GW released PDFs of the rule book which can be read by screen reader, and the minis are less costly. It has all the same races, just the models are to a much smaller scale. For the price of a space marine tactical squad for WH40k as an example you can get a box of Epic scale infantry containing -
24 stands worth of tactical marines, enough for 4 standard detachments of 6 stands each
8 stands worth of assault marines, enough for 2 standard detachments of 4 stands each

The total points value being 1550. Alternatively you can give up 2 tactical detachments for one devastator and some left over, giving you 1200 points worth of full detachments. Just bung in a pack of epic scale predators or two and a pack of whirlwinds and you've got a full army of over 2000 points there by my reckoning.

The infantry are harder to identify admittedly, but it is just so much less expensive. I read somewhere that the estimated start up price for a WH40K player is over

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-04 19:33:17

Thanks for the info! (I spent 20 minutes trying to put together some Orks and failed. Not to mention painting...)

Where can I find out about Epic?

Cheers,

2009-02-04 19:52:50

I believe it has been folded into the main GW site. Unfortunately the files I downloaded are incomplete, and the GW site now has an inaccessible front end for choosing your country. There were some battle reports at www.epic40k.co.uk of an early test version though.

Assembly and painting is likely to be even more awkward though since the models are on a noticably smaller scale to WH40K.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-04 22:26:58

I believe I've found the Epic rulebook in PDF format.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus … _Rules.pdf

Cheers,

2009-02-05 12:19:58

That's the basic rules indeed, though there will be some additional PDFs with the other chapters. I believe it goes something like -
2 - special abilities
3 - war engines
4 - aerospace and other advanced rules
5 - Armageddon conflict history, and unit data for the three armies
6 - types of game
6.1 - tournament army lists, including points costs
There should also be the Swordwind expansion somewhere which adds imperial guard siege armies, eldar and feral orks.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-05 17:38:54

Found the epic resources page, it has everything except the army list with points costs. Sent them an email, but it might be they won't reply since the auto response said something about being for order enquiries and there wasn't another email address.

That said if on their site you find the "specialist games" link, there will be further down a link "epic armageddon". Most stuff you might want will be under here, including the resources page. The Ork warband box at

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-12 00:15:47 (edited by Ravager 2009-02-12 00:19:04)

Hello. I am a current player of WH 40K and Fantasy, along with BFG, Warmaster, and tryign to get into Epic. When trying to figure out measuring, you guys totally bypassed something that is much much easier than creating a "blind" board with pegs and whatnot, and will also work with playing at stores/game shops against sighted players, so you don't have to try to tote your board around.  I have two measuring devices. One is a tape measure with a single hole drilled out every inch, and two (side by side) holes at each foot (yes, us goofy americans tongue). The other is a leather rope with beads on it. One round at every inch, with a pyramid type (like shape of a D4) at the beginning, and for every foot. It's made so the backside of the beads are every inch, and I move my squadsfrom back of pyramid bead to back of circular bead. This takes into account having to move diagonal, or moving around terrain. I usually have someone sighted read my dice thogh because I am out and not near somewhere I could plug in my laptop and use GMA Dice. I did overhear somewhere that they are making dice for visually impaired players with dots and such, but that would get annoying when (as in my Khornate squad's case) having to roll dozens of dice at one time.

As for rules, scanning them into a PDF like you have already done is the best idea if you don't plan on memorizing your squads and all that jazz. HTH

*edit* also, you can use troop stands. For fantasy, they can be bought from GW, or you can make your own for all the games, that way no matter what, you only have to worry about dropping all the troops into one stand and moving it. That might suck as far as tryign to balance a couple troops on a wall, but you have to do what you have to do I guess.

~Ravager

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2009-02-13 06:43:05

Very true, or the talking tape measures. My main concern though is my clumsiness and tendency to knock everything all over the place.

How sd you dea with regiment bases if you lose models? Do you just not glue them in and pull out the ones you lose?

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-13 19:32:00

Well, with regiment bases, I build up the base (where the model sits) and then build up edges, so they don't get knocked off easily, and no they aren't stuck in, so I can pull them off when people die. Usually though (for WH 40K more) I don't use regiment trays, and just keep guys in a pile(ish), move one guy, and then move all the rest where I had them in formation to begin with.

For talking tape measures, I did find out one thing. They all have a tendancy to be off between 1/8" to 1/4", so the measurements never seem to be right. And trust me, that 1/8" can make a whooooooole world of difference in 40K. There are other measuring devices for the blind, one of which is a pipe deal (called click ruler) that is 6", with a 6" piece that slides out (or clicks out really) in 1/8 notches, and also has markings every1/4 or 1/2" so you can easily click out half inch segments. At the end of that, there is a hole with a screw thread inside, and other 6"bars screw in to get yourself measurements past the 1 foot range In the package, you get enough to go to the 4 foot range, but can get extra extensions I think (great for IG players with that damn basalisk tongue ). I am pretty sure that Maxiaids and Independant living online has the click ruler, but those suck for trying to finaggle around turns/bends. tongue
Hope that gives you a little more insight on ways to adapt to a "sighted board."

Now... I just got myself a setup that'll do great for keeping rules, army lists, and all that straight. I don't have to worry about the laptop anymore, but carry a Dell Axim x50V with Pocket Hal, use a bluetooth keyboard (which I don't even need to pull out unless I am entering data), and a set of headphones (usually stuck in one ear only so to hear the outside world!). Another way around that for the books/army lists is either a Bookport (which is what I originally used from time to time when I didn't memorize my stuff), or a Victor Reader Stream. There are all sorts of ways around the books/army list ordeal so that one isn't too hard.

Sorry for making this post too long, but everytime I started to end it, I thought of other things/tricks that I use(d) to keep my stuff straight and play on my own pretty much (stil have to have someone read dice though sad ). HTH

~Ravager

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-02-13 23:14:16

All very good to know. I still wouldn't trust myself not to knock the models over though, especially if we're talking about 40k ones, or not to knock them out of position. I do tend to be pretty clumsy in general though, so maybe this is just me.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-02-19 22:58:38

I'll have to try that bead string, and those stands.
A friend is getting Necron, so we'll be having a hoot.

I've managed to scan the Tyranid codex. The fluff came out fine, but there are alot of important tables didn't come out so well. Will have to figure out something.

Cheers,

2009-03-04 04:59:21

Sorry to resurrect this topic, but mind if I ask how you deal with assembly of metal minis? As I've mentioned I can be pretty clumsy, and I'm pretty worried about using superglue now I've no sight especially since I'll have to feel where to line things up.

I'll confess I've mostly been thinking in terms of Epic and Battletech, and both are beggars for using metal minis. In fact you can't get any plastic ones for Battletech at all, and if you want to use the resin minis from Forgeworld as well then glueing is also important.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-05 00:31:23

Heh, the old superglueing the fingers together trick... Or tryign not to I should have said. Here is what I tend to do, and it works well with both the plastics (whether you use superglue or that polystyrene cement) and metals. I have a little container around, usually the plastic part of a blister pack. Squirt some glue (very small amounts) into it. For superglue, I use a rubberized type that is made for RC cars and mounting the tires to it (if you have sighted help getting this, the glue itself is black and not clear). It can  be found in most hobby shops, and has a longer drying time, so will stay moist in the blister a bit longer. Then I either use a toothpick or something like that to take glue and spread it onto the part I am tryign to assemble. Depending on the piece, I also found that dipping the contact point directly into the glue works well also. Stuff the two pieces together, and *bam* you are done. No matter which glue you use though, remember not to let go of the two pieces for a couple of seconds so the glue has time to bond. After that, it's on to painting...

"Miller, why is your entire Khornate army pink, pastel blue, and yellow?"
*sigh*

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2009-03-05 01:15:05

Thanks, a most interesting solution.

Laugh, shades of Slaanesh methinks. Maybe they're having a fancy dress party and they all decided to go as Khorne followers, but being Slaanesh worshippers they had to apply their own sense of style. Don't you just hate it when you roll up to a party and find all the other guests had exactly the same idea you did?

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-05 09:19:21

I have nothing to say to your last post but...

ahahahaAHAHAHAHA

tongue

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
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