2019-02-27 22:12:35 (edited by Ethin 2019-02-27 22:13:23)

@24, that's funny, now, because I never got bashed with /forks either and yet updated. I'm starting to want MS to remove Skype 7 support sooner and sooner now. Skype 8 isn't overly bad; I significantly doubt that its MS's fault if JaWS doesn't work with it. Sounds like a, uh, JAWS problem.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-02-27 22:29:10

There are Jaws scripts for it, and the latest version improved most things. Now I know some people cannot ubgrade due to high costs, but how can you use a screen reader without updating it? I don't mean anything harsh, just keeping your screen reader up to date is especially important on Windows 10 and in general when using modern apps.

2019-02-28 01:10:05

When reading through forums about Skype 8, I recommend to track their date. People did not understand Skype 8 when it was released. They thought it was a release like thatone from version 6 to 7.
But that's not the case. Skype 8 was most likely rewritten from scratch to JavaScript, what means developers needed to test basic functionality before they could add other functions. That's the reason why people were complayining about missing features. After basics were tested, developers added those as well.
Now Skype 8 can do nearly everything what Skype 7, it fixed few ugly bugs like messing audio during calls and has some really nice features like tracking who has already read a conversation or use of webview as its native interface.

The lastone mentioned is especially useful. In Skype 7, I used a layout where every conversation had its own window. And if new message appeared, I never knew who wrote it when I was handling multiple conversations at once and even if I knew, I needed to switch to second window, enter the conversation list and read the last message just to find out that someone asked for some stupidity.
In Skype 8, everything is in one window. That may look unpractical, but with the webview I found it very confortable. When a new message from other conversation arriwes, while I'm chatting with someone, al I need to do is to go up with ctrl + home, and look to upper bar, where last conversations are shown along with their last message. So I see who wrote me, what he / she wrote and I can decide, if it's worth answering immediately or if it can wait.
If I handle for example 5 conversations at once, I can use this to easily decide the most interesting conversation and priorities for other conversations from one place.
And if I want to stay in currentone, all I need to do is to press e key, which jumps to next edit field like on a web, that's the send message field when a conversation is opened.
And if you either aren't confortable with this method, you can still set Skype to open new window for every conversation, this option is already implemented.

Of course if you consider for some reason Skype 7 better than Skype 8, it's okay. I just wanted to show that Skype 8 isn't that bad how it may look for first time or how some people say.
I recommend to try it out yourself in current version, if you already didn't.

Best regards

Rastislav

2019-02-28 01:16:42 (edited by Rastislav Kish 2019-02-28 01:17:47)

Also I use Jaws 2018 and it works better than NVDA in Skype. NVDA seems bit desoriented when reading conversations, Jaws is optimized better. But it is usable with both.

Best regards

Rastislav

2019-02-28 05:45:03

lol I used skype 8 for about 2 months starting back in september. got used to it over that short amount of time. I did decide to use skype 7 for one last time though after that, just in case they were actually going to end support for it. I never went back to 8. the day skype 8 gets split windows I'll think about going back to it. the skype for windows 10 is just as bad. I used CCleaner to uninstall that thing. but yeah I love skype 7  and am currently on 7.3 with no plans to go back to skype 8 even if support is ended for 7.

2019-02-28 12:17:40

@30, split window view will most likely not happen. MS won't implement it in Skype for Windows 10 because then they'd be managing two independent codebases, on top of the server systems, which would be a nightmare. Electron can create extra windows, but I have no idea if this has some kind of impact on application functionality or not. On top of that, they'd then need to add that into Web Skype... yeah, most likely not going to happen.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-02-28 12:47:57

Rastislav, agreed.

2019-02-28 14:09:22

See, practical advice is one thing, and I won't sneer at that, not by any means. Still not upgrading at this point, as there's no good reason for me to do so. Would like to point out, however, that my Jaws is current, and I do use scripts with Skype. The only reason a screenreader got tossed into the mix was because of the talk of "browse mode". Obviously people are using skype 8, and that means it's usable and won't be completely out of reach. But I, for one, love split-window view, and see no reason to give it up.

@Ethin, you clearly missed my point regarding /forks. I'm not saying that people who upgrade must have dealt with it; please point to where I said that. What I actually said was that I've never dealt with it, so claiming, as another user seemed to do, that this is a good reason to upgrade is silly. If I was dealing with such hassle and skype 8 got rid of it, then yes, it's a compelling argument. But if it is not part of my skype experience - and it's not, witness that in another thread I had to ask what the hell it even was? - then it doesn't even belong in the discussion of why I should personally upgrade or not.

I also find it troubling how many people who now use skype 8 are actually pushing others to do the same, or hoping Microsoft removes support for older builds. What, exactly, is the reason for this? It seems petty and spiteful to me. Microsoft will surely remove functionality at some point, and we all know this (or should, at any rate). That being the case, what is the harm in people using older builds of a program they enjoy? It's not hurting you or anyone you care about.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2019-02-28 17:42:43

@31, split window is already in Skype for Windows 10.

2019-02-28 18:00:16

agreed with jayde, this is not for skype only, i've seen people get pissed off because of people not liking their favorite apps / screenreaders.

2019-02-28 20:52:13

Jayde wrote:

See, practical advice is one thing, and I won't sneer at that, not by any means. Still not upgrading at this point, as there's no good reason for me to do so. Would like to point out, however, that my Jaws is current, and I do use scripts with Skype. The only reason a screenreader got tossed into the mix was because of the talk of "browse mode". Obviously people are using skype 8, and that means it's usable and won't be completely out of reach. But I, for one, love split-window view, and see no reason to give it up.

@Ethin, you clearly missed my point regarding /forks. I'm not saying that people who upgrade must have dealt with it; please point to where I said that. What I actually said was that I've never dealt with it, so claiming, as another user seemed to do, that this is a good reason to upgrade is silly. If I was dealing with such hassle and skype 8 got rid of it, then yes, it's a compelling argument. But if it is not part of my skype experience - and it's not, witness that in another thread I had to ask what the hell it even was? - then it doesn't even belong in the discussion of why I should personally upgrade or not.

I also find it troubling how many people who now use skype 8 are actually pushing others to do the same, or hoping Microsoft removes support for older builds. What, exactly, is the reason for this? It seems petty and spiteful to me. Microsoft will surely remove functionality at some point, and we all know this (or should, at any rate). That being the case, what is the harm in people using older builds of a program they enjoy? It's not hurting you or anyone you care about.

I completely agree here. was told many times to change to skype 8 until I finally tried it. it's ok, but skype 7 is still way ahead. skype 7 also works better with jaws. the scripts for skype 8, well I have nothing to say about them really, no idea if they didn't add the alt 1 to 0 to read the messages because they didn't want to, or because it's not possible with skype 8. skype 7's jaws scripts are awesome.

2019-02-28 23:27:26

@33, I never said that people who upgrade dealt with /fork. I was agreeing that I had never suffered the problems people report with /fork. I don't really get what makes Skype 7 better than Skype 8 at this point. It doesn't have alt1+alt10... that's not exactly a required feature. It (according to 34) has split window view, so you guys have that. So really, it doesn't seem spiteful to push for people to upgrade; it seems spiteful to not upgrade to Skype 8 (for example) since Skype 7 is pretty much obsolete. By doing that your pretty much daring Skype 7 support to be ended. Your openly challenging MS, essentially, by doing that. If the scripts for Skype 8 are worse than Skype 7... not MS's problem, now is it? It can't be. That's pushing the blame onto someone who doesn't deserve it. Who deserves the blame is whomever wrote the scripts. But I digress. By following the logic of "what is the harm in people using older builds of a program they enjoy," your pretty much saying "yeah, I'll happily just stick on windows XP instead of windows 10 because I can despite the fact that support for windows XP ended and its more vulnerable to viruses than later windows versions and it doesn't support most modern computers". And while this isn't a topic about windows XP, that's what your pretty much saying. Just upgrade and get used to it. If you can come up with a nice list detailing what Skype 8 doesn't have that Skype 7 does, without pushing blame onto MS where blame isn't needed (i.e. the keyboard shortcuts and the scripts sucking), I just might take into consideration your reasoning. But right now I cannot think of a feature that Skype 8 doesn't have that Skype 7 has, excluding things like /fork, that makes Skype 7 much better than Skype 8.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-03-01 01:29:11

split window is in skype for windows 10. not for skype 8. so yeah still sticking with 7. 7.3 to be exact, no forced update on that one.

2019-03-01 02:03:10

Ethin, I'm gonna be honest here. I'm approaching you as a user and not a mod, but I'm having serious trouble trying to wrap my head around your last post. Like, serious logic-doesn't-live-here-anymore trouble.

The main thing I take issue with is your contention that it is somehow spiteful not to upgrade to skype 8. I'd like to refer you to the definition of "spiteful" in any reasonable dictionary. Once you do this, I then challenge you to explain how using a provided service in any way matches this definition. Remember that spite is, by most definitions, wilful and harmful, implying some sort of vengeance, malice or ill will toward the target of said spiteful behaviour. This means that the onus is squarely upon you to prove that those of us who use older versions of Skype are doing so either to punish Microsoft or to hurt others. Good luck with that.

The next thing I'm going to hit is your contention that we are "daring" Microsoft to end support for skype 7. First of all, if this is actually what you want in the first place, what's your problem? According to you, both in this post and in at least one prior, the sooner they shut down all support for skype 7, the better. You have still yet to refute my claim that this desire of yours is spiteful, by the way; you're merely trying to turn it around on me, and on those of us doing the same as I am, and that's a whole new kettle of corn, but I'll rehash this shortly. Second of all, you presuppose that Microsoft is unaware of the issue, which is, in my opinion at least, kind of shortsighted. You either don't give them much credit, or else you somehow think that a relatively small splinter of the user base is actually going to be the driving force behind a change you're in favour of to begin with. My head is sort of exploding at this point, but let's keep going. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume that either 1. Microsoft is aware of the issue but as yet does not have a compelling reason to shut things down, or that 2. Microsoft may in fact be allowing this loophole to stay open precisely because they recognize the inherent issues with upgrading, the same way it was (and still in some ways is) possible to use really outdated versions of their OS? Let's talk about that OS comparison now, by the way. Using a really outdated version of Windows is going to make even harmless-looking web-surfing a comparatively dangerous endeavour. Using Skype 7, however, does not possess anywhere near the same concerns, and does not risk the security of anyone else either, so the risk of harm is essentially nil. I dunno, but if I were you, I'd consider more carefully such accusations, since it makes Microsoft look like they're being straight-up forced to pander to those of us who won't upgrade, or on the other hand, are being forced to shut us down in the name of progress. I'd personally rather believe they'd do this for sound business-related reasons, myself, but have on.

Right, so my last point. Let's come back to that aforementioned kettle of corn, which consists of me claiming that your behaviour seems spiteful, and you trying to turn it around on me.
This is patently bullshit. There's no other explanation, and I don't feel a need to sugar-coat it. I'm trying to stop well short of attacking you personally, but if you want a glowing example of why you get people's backs up, Ethin, this is it, right here. I don't know if you considered the impact of your words or not, but to me, it doesn't look that way. What I see is someone who is bound and determined to argue and who can't stand that other people have a perfectly admissible point of view that doesn't mesh with your own. The onus is not on me to give you a list of why Skype 7 is better than Skype 8. It might be if I was trying to convince you to use an older version, but I'm not. If you like skype 8, go nuts, dude. Use it all you like; more power to you, and all of that. You should also take note that at no point, not even a little, have I tried to get other people to regress from skype 8. Some people like it, or can tolerate it, and that is their personal choice. So yeah, the onus is not on me to make that list of why skype 7 is better. The onus is on you to convince me, or others doing likewise, that skype 8 is better, and you absolutely cannot do this. I know because you've already tried and failed. You cannot possibly account for all of the things we like about the version of skype we enjoy, and so you cannot possibly provide good enough reasons for us to abandon what we prefer. Even if you could, who do you think you are, anyway, trying to strong-arm anyone into changing what they prefer? I'm not sure what moral authority is informing your decisions, but it sure isn't doing you any favours. I think you really need to take a long, hard step back and ask yourself if this is the sort of thing you want to convey to the community at large, and to smaller groups of people with whom you are in conflict.

Let me summarize in non-flowery, straightforward English.
You don't get to decide what anyone else does, and suggesting that Microsoft should force upgrades as soon as possible is spiteful because, at present, Skype 7 does not represent any serious performance or security risks to others. Put another way: it's not your choice, so keep your nose out of it. It'll be discontinued whenever MS sees fit to do so, but until then, it'd be awfully nice not to receive any scorn or negativity for a choice we're making which hurts absolutely no one.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1