2018-07-28 00:35:57 (edited by zkline 2018-07-28 02:53:13)

Hi ALl,

I've been meaning to write something like this up for a while now, but finally felt sufficient enthusiasm and motivation to do so. Here is part one of a tutorial in Aurora 4x, the most complex, but fascinating space strategy game playable by the blind. I tried to answer a few questions about what it is and where to get it, but will save the "Meat," of starting a new game, getting around the interface, and so forth for another part. I hope more people are persuaded to give this game a look, it really is like nothing else out there.

2018-07-28 01:38:06

Sadly, I won't be playing this because jaws, but hopefully other folks can get some enjoyment out of this.

Take care, it's a desert out there.

2018-07-28 01:39:03

does this game work with NVDA?

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2018-07-28 01:43:38

If I can figure out a way to make it work with NVDA,  I will definitely let people know. The problem is that, for some reason, some of the tabs and other features used to organize information are not properly recognized. I’m not sure if it’s a bug in the screen reader, a quirk of the way the game is written, or some combination of the two.

2018-07-28 02:00:59

Well a couple issues that would stop me playing, A) I hate JAWS with a passion, B) I run my computer at 1080P and won't change it for any reason, and C) it really does take the fun away from games if I'm always cursoring around, or in NVDA, object navving.

The concept does sound cool though, really intriguing actually, but this is one of those scenarios where its playable, but not really accessible. I'm sure though that many folks will not find those restrictions as tough to bear as I do and give it a go and enjoy it.

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2018-07-28 02:02:43

Yeah. Fortunately, the C# version, which is being written/tested now, is supposed to dispense with the picky resolution requirement. There's no timeline on its release, though, and the VB6 version works well enough.

I was just reminded that I've been nattering on about this game off and on for ~8 years, how time flies.

2018-07-28 02:30:27

I heard about this game years ago.  People were going crazy about it, calling it the dwarf fortress of space games.  I always meant to try it but haven't yet.  I look forward to seeing your guides.  Maybe they will motivate me to give this thing a whirl.

I'm probably gonna get banned for this, but...

2018-07-28 02:52:22

The Comparison with Dwarf Fortress is interesting, because a lot of the focus is weirdly similar. There are tons of procedurally-generated bits in both games, and a focus on sometimes absurd detail.

I'll definitely try to get part 2 posted soon, and will let everybody know when it's up. In the mean time, this thread might be a good general discussion place.

2018-07-28 03:55:20

Time to install jaws, i suppose big_smile Wanted to play aurora in years.

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2018-07-28 05:04:53

One question I'm trying to figure out is how to balance explaining the game concepts with focusing more specifically on accessibility. There are a lot of complicated gameplay mechanics, which are generally well-documented on the official wiki. Still, if I just gloss over things it's possible people will get confused or not realize there was a step missing somewhere because I just assumed people would figure it out.

Do y'all have any thoughts on what kind of  balance would be helpful?

2018-07-28 08:54:55

@Zcline thumbs up for the guide and doing something about this.

I did once try Aurora with supernova, but between complexity of the interface, complexity of the game, and the fact that at that point most of the documentation kept referring to graphical maps and stuff I had no luck, though equally that might have been due to the resolution issue.

I don't mind cursoring around, but I will admit I was quite disappointed when your guide mentioned Aurora not playing well with Nvda, since that is my main screen reader these days and short of winning the lottery I probably will not be buying Jaws any time soon, so if you find some ways to work things with Nvda I'd be interested to know.

As to the guide, i'd personally appreciate if you would mention about game mechanics since then if someone does! want to try with nvda or another screen reader than Jaws they at least have more of a basis to do so,  as I  I remember looking at the tutorial and finding references to graphical elements waaaaay too complex to follow.

Also, , if you could mention in the guide which bits of the interface have issues with Nvda that might also be helpful, especially for people playing along with screen readers other than Jaws.

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Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-07-28 09:32:12 (edited by hadi.gsf 2018-07-28 09:42:13)

I thought this game is dead since the developer was starting to  work on an inaccessible space game so i stopped trying to understand it.
Extremely appreciated for your guide, I will totally check this out and will let you know if i have any questions and all. I really want to play this game, specially since i can't play games like eve online or no man's sky or any good space games at all.

edit: i just saw the part 1, I'll be waiting for part 2! that's the part I totally would have no idea about. but nice tip on resolution, i never knew this.
edit 2:, I just found out about C# aurora. any ideas if that's also going to be accessible or probably not?

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2018-07-28 14:10:34

I found your guide somewhat confusing. For example it says that a minimum resolution is required, but then says a resolution which met that minimum requirement wouldn't work. What am I supposed to believe?

Also giving some guidance of where to go on that forum and what to download would have been very helpful.

And, not to start a fight, but to make a point. Finally! A game that supports only JAWS, now all you developers that write games that only support NVDA will know how it feels to download a game that we JAWS users want to play, only to find that JAWS isn't supported. It happens way too often.

2018-07-28 14:31:51

@orko
Maybe he ment the height of the screen needs to be also grather than 800?
Also, supporting jaws only is not intentional by the way. i'm pretty sure about that.

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2018-07-28 15:55:04

@zkline
Is there a trick to see the list of the planets and other space objects in the system window?
I found a listbox that says:
"orbital paths, treeview  list of 647 items"
but I can't scroll it with jaws.
I used jaws cursor and i managed to find pluto by accident, but that's honestly very hard to interact with the map.

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2018-07-28 16:39:45

@Orko Developers don't go out of their way to screw Jaws users from playing games, its the way Jaws handles keyboard input, it literally traps keys from reaching the application. How can a developer fight against that unless they know exactly what is going on? Such s Phillip Benefall knew this is what happened, so he wrote a very low level hook that could be injected into memory to stop this process. The problem is, the key hook does have its consequences, I can't speak first hand about this, but supposedly, it stops you from being able to interact with Jaws specific keystrokes while the window is in focus. So its not like devs are cackling behind half-moon glasses going hee hee hee hee, Jaws users suck, let's not make our game work with their screen reader, hee hee hee. It's just the way Jaws works that makes it incompatible with gaming unless you want to do some real hackish coding, that maybe not all programmers can do, or know that they need to do.

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2018-07-28 19:06:01

i'll keep an eye on this thread but i won't download jaws just for the sake of 1 game. if NVDA can work with this then i'll definitely give it a go.

2018-07-28 20:38:31

Hi,

I'll try to answer a few questions in this post.

Orko, I should have been clearer in my description of the requirement. The important measurement is actually the 800, not necessarily the 1280. The Aurora windows tend to be very tall, and 800 height is essential. Also, there is an option in the Game Parameters menu you need to enable, "reduced height windows." If that isn't enabled, the requirement is 1280x1024.

Hadi, the window you're having trouble with is the System Map screen. It tends to be used a lot by sighted players, but it isn't required. It's possible to get textual overviews of system bodies, contacts, and so forth from other places. The map is only used because it shows a lot of things at once in a convenient form, but it is cluttered. I would recommend avoiding for the most part, just because it's more confusing than necessary.

Everyone else, C# Aurora, the port of this game being worked on at the moment, is supposed to dispense with the resolution requirement. I haven't personally played it, so can't vouch for its accessibility or lack thereof.

I will work on part 2 this weekend, and try to answer any other questions I can in the meantime.

2018-07-28 21:00:27

When I look in the directory of some games, there three dlls, jaws.dll, nvda.dll, and sapi.dll, but in most games all there is is a nvda.dll and the game doesn't work with JAWS, it will only work properly or be accessible if NVDA is running. That is what I mean by only supporting NVDA, and it is obviously intentional. Maybe not out of malice, but simply because the developer doesn't want to do the extra work it might require, or just don't want to bother learning how to support other screen readers.

I agree that only working with JAWS is just a coincidence, and not intentional, but still, it highlights the problem of not being screen reader agnostic.

---

If that is true, then ironcross's argument that he won't change his system away from 1080p is meaningless because that is over the 800 minimum requirement. I'm just trying to understand this resolution requirement because the native resolution of my screen is 1280 by 800, and that is also the maximum resolution Windows will allow me to choose.

Though to be honest, I don't understand why screen resolution matters to someone who can't see the screen in the first place. But, whatever makes him happy.

2018-07-28 21:05:16

Orko, the problem is that if your screen is less than 800 pixels high, Jaws and other screen readers won't see the bottom buttons on many windows. It's annoying for sighted users too, and I wish there were a way to force them to be visible, but without fancy scrolling desktop programs, none of which I know to be accessible, it just won't work.

So in short, if your screen is at least 1280x800, and you enable Reduced Height Windows, the game will work fine. If your screen is 1280x1024, you don't need to enable that option, and things are a little easier, because things like long component lists don't need to be scrolled quite as often.

I hope this clarifies things.

2018-07-28 22:06:45

Those DLL's you see are a different point. First, that DLL is not for SAPI, it is for system access. Second, those files are used only, and I repeat only for sending game messages  to your screen reader using their respective APIS. Sending messages is enough to make it work with NVDA, while with Jaws, you also need to get over that annoying thing with intercepting keys as Ironcross properly explained. If it is not an audio game and if it is a GUI, then there is no problem since the program does not need to intercept keys in the first place. However, if it is an audio game then there is the problem. In case of text games, ideally they should be supported by all screen readers, but various unintentional bugs can happen. This is way out of topic, but here it only matters which screen reader supports windows standards and APIS better.

2018-07-28 22:23:08

Jaws doesn't need that API I don't think, I do believe Jaws uses standard COM (Component Object Model) calls to interact with other apps. My knowledge in this field is sparse, so I won't attempt to comment further, but I know Jaws can work without that DLL, while NVDA cannot. sapi32.dll, as nidza07 correctly points out, sis for system access. TO be more clear, NVDA needs that dll if the game wants to directly communicate with it, rather than relying on standard window classes and so forth.

If we strip this down to bare facts, and take away any bias of which screen reader is better, the fact is simply that Jaws is intercepting all keys and not allowing those keystrokes to reach the game in question, or in the case of the arrows, it may let one pass through when the key is being held down, and the game's event handler is looking for the event to fire to keep you walking in the case of holding down an arrow key. So its not negligence on the developers' part that leads to games not supporting Jaws, its the way Jaws monopolizes the keyboard.

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2018-07-28 22:26:25

Yeah there is a JFWAPI.dll but I'm not sure as indeed I saw apps communicating with Jaws without using it.

2018-07-28 23:00:19

The problem with that argument is that not all games have problems with JAWS, if JAWS monopolizing the keyboard was itself a problem, then more than just some games written in BGT would have problems with JAWS, but that's not the case, so the problem is with the games, or more properly and accurately with the development system the game was written with.

Could Freedom Scientific resolve the problem? Probably, but since their focus is on helping people be productive, not play games, it's not a problem they are going to pay any attention to.

---

That's my point exactly, the only reason for the presence of those DLLs is to use the screen reader API directly instead of using a standardized approach that all screen readers support, the developer chooses to communicate directly with the screen reader and chooses to only only communicate with NVDA. Where does that leave users of other screen readers?

That's why I don't use those DLLs in my programming, instead I use methods that most, if not all, screen readers support, making my programs screen reader agnostic. That, in my opinion, is the only way to go.

zkline, thanks, that makes it clear, I will have to use the reduced screen height option.

From the way it sounds, NVDA users will probably need an add on to play this game. Hopefully somebody will write one.

2018-07-28 23:31:31

There are some things that just work better when communicating directly with a screen reader. As I said, games using an actual UI wont have this problem, and that is why BGT games do have it. For general purpose programs, I agree that most of the time you wont be using screen reader APIS. But for games, sometimes it makes things easier. To illustrate that with an example: The playroom works perfectly fine with jaws. That is, because it has an actual UI, a list box, a text field and so on. It does not intercept the keyboard input because it does not need to. In fact, this isn't BGT games. All old games in their readme said something like, before launching the game make sure your screen reader is in sleep mode or completely turned off. Why? Because at the time most people used jaws. With NVDA that's not an issue, so now when we read that we largely ignore it.