2021-03-11 11:56:23

Fuck you, Hawgpadre. If you expected people to be "reasonable", then why did you contribute to chaos? Murdering your players, calling them idiots, using the word faggot? Having a channel designed to make fun of blind people? All of this is fine, but do not show your face here and claim that the environment isn't like hell.

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2021-03-11 12:51:36

That can be summed up very very very simply...

Hawg's game. Hawg's way of doing things. If he wanted to have a planet full of pole dancing ponies because I don't know, LSD laden pixie stix, that's entirely fine. There's no rule anywhere saying admins/staff on a game have to stay out of discussions. Here's the thing. I've staffed/staff games and I have /never/ been told do not be yourself on public channels. Just keep it reasonable and keep it appropriate when dealing with players in an official capacity. Aside from that...fairly sure players are smart enough to know when you've got the staff hat on or not. That's common sense.

You join a game, you go by their rules, written down or not. There's unwritten rules everywhere. What, you think Wayfar's the only one with unwritten rules? Nope, everywhere has unwritten rules. Hawg is a lot more chill than some admins I know who would ban you for saying fuck, once...and who the hel are you to say what you did in @151

I get it. You're heated. I get it. But Wayfar's got a sizeable steady player count which is, if anything, a good thing

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2021-03-11 14:04:13

meh i've seen worse worse admins compared to hog

2021-03-11 14:14:09

Sure, he can run it however he sees fit, I don't think anyone's arguing about that. However, he is not gonna come here and tell anyone that the social atmosphere wasn't similar to hell or was toxic. Your game, your right to simulate the holocaust if you want, just don't give me any bullshit.

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2021-03-11 15:32:14

Meh, I don't get why people are trying to excuse this. Apparently 3 people were banned at once, then he's like 3 out of 3K big deal. I take bans very lightly. I don't think anyone is arguing the fact he can run his game however he likes, but I don't understand why people are standing for it. No, they may not be able to change it, but they can just not play.

And him being a chill admin is kind of a problem if he's like all cool and calm one minute, and on the warpath the next. How are you supposed to know how to stay off his shit list then.

I'm not angry about it anymore, but it sucks because I lost a game that I really really enjoyed.

Another thing, is this Reddit where it's one minor thing and you're done? Like OK I guess, but that kind of sucks. Also, I don't get the big deal about Ishtaar talking about chopping up a virtual dog. Like yeah, if I thought he meant it for real, sure. I even used that as part of the reason to justify attacking him, but there was more going on there than just that. It also would have been possible to say that from here on out, talking about that sort of thing is not permitted. But he keeps on saying he doesn't want to or doesn't have the time to police language, so..... I mean. you can't have it both ways.

I also don't care how more or less shitty he is compared to other admins. He did a shitty thing and is acting in unpredictable ways. That's enough to keep me off the game. If you're fine with it, go play, but I'm not going to be taken in by any comparisons about how other admins act. Also, just so you know, this is the one and only time something like this has happen in the oh hell, probably 75 or so MUDs I've played on. Not to say that there aren't more staff problems out there, just that I've not encountered them and I don't have a history of looking to smear the name of MUDs and tarnish their reputations.

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2021-03-11 15:49:27 (edited by JaceK 2021-03-11 15:50:37)

I can anser the how to stay of off of any admins shit list very very easily..

Common sense.

Here's the thing though. Ishtaar did not make a good first impression. If. IF he'd have kept his mouth shut, and got somewhere in the game, then come out with I'm going to wreck you all, understandable. But no. He came in, dick waving with a giant superiority complex when there were much, much more experienced players, calling everyone else newbs for asking questions when the game relaunched that week, all the while going on this I am 48, I have a 2000 ELO I am so much better than you rant. Wolf, Mat and others called him out for it, but he didn't learn.

That was strike 1 really IMO, not making a good first impression and carrying on way, way way past when he was told to shut up and that nobody really cared at all, and for himt o just play the game

Strike 2.

I was paged by somebody on the game that stated, point blank, he didn't want to play, he wasn't interested in crafting at all and ddidn't want to craft, period.

Add in more running his mouth on chat with narrating absolutely everything he was doing, strike 2

And the dog thing was I believe the last straw

And before this comes up. I used him, because he was playing a female character, something he admitted on chatnet. So that answers that.

EDIT: Oh and on the first impressions, he attacked somebody's buildings then was running his mouth when he got killed by an older/more experienced player with good gear, whining and crying about how they were using an OP weapona nd gear and must be a powergamer

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2021-03-11 16:04:54

He shot me with a colonial rifle while I was in a battle tank. I had a defense walker to bring to bear but I didn't need to. I shot him once with the main cannon and eviscerated him. That was a foolish mistake on his part.

I get the rules of common sense. But here's where things begin to get shaky for me. No warnings, no other forms of punishment, just bans. Also, when you say that 3 out of 3k isn't bad, it shows that you dont' really care about the players and just see them as numbers. Why do we go from not doing anything to straight up permanent ban? But you know what, I think Ishtaar does deserve it. It's like the way the mods work here though, they are careful to execute a ban in such a way that all their ducks are in a row first. Maybe they make mistakes here and there, but they're trying.

He tells me that this is a positive environment. He keeps saying things like, "This isn't HellMOO". OK, I get that. It's using Hellcore, but apart from that, it's a very unique concept.

Then there's trust. The game going down for 4 years or so is going to put me on shaky ground, but I get it. So then the game comes back and within a week, he's up down up down up down up down. nah bruh.

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2021-03-11 16:49:15

Wayfar1444 sounds like a interesting mud, but with all the surround pissing about just makes me want to stay clear. As far as I am thinking, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. maybe I will just go play Alter Aeon or Cosmic Rage or Miriani or Vast Horizon or awaken worlds or just read The Expanse series. At least that in the series I don't have to worry about any adman wanting to band me, or and players lieing or telling stories, or real shit going down. To say I am a bit mad goes without saying. Is the source code open sourced so that more than one copy can be hosted? You know, so that more than one adman can have a go to see who really does abetter job, or so that players have a bit of a choice of who they are playing with? It just seems that we have things like this blow up from time to time causing alot of dromma, and usually the fault is not usually not all that clear at times.

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2021-03-11 16:57:48

He said that he will never open source it.

I mean, try it for yourself to see if it suits you or not. Maybe you won't have any trouble. Being mad at the situation makes no sense when you don't even know what it's about.

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2021-03-11 17:24:10 (edited by cw 2021-03-11 17:25:55)

I will put my view down plainly. Even though the mud looks interesting, it is diffecult to join in when there appears to be alot of infighting around about this mud on a open forem such is the audiogames forem. It makes me ask the question why do I want to go and play a mud that smells like trouble when I can find other things that can usually keep me intertained? Yes, the mud may just be my cup of tea as it were. the infighting may be a huge cup of nothing cake tea coffee as it were. As for me being mad, it seems like every so often something blows up into a major thing on the forem. In away, it is a shame that the mud is going to remain closed source, but that is his choice to make.

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2021-03-11 17:25:57

Bro, there's politics around every online community. You might as well watch movies or knit if you are not willing to try to navigate around that stuff. I get that it doesn't interest you. I get that it is annoying, but it's not stopping anytime soon. It's been a staple of MUDs since they came into being.

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2021-03-11 18:09:07

The mud being closed source will be a shame until it goes down permanently again and he keeps the source to himself, at which point it will be a source of rage and destroy his reputation, but eh.

I'm glad I decided not to log in again.  Looks like it's as much of a shitshow as I expected.

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2021-03-11 18:46:50

I mean, it isn't very easy to tell when Hawg has his admin hat on actually, and he does keep flipping back and forth between chill and hands off and "this is my game you have no rights".
So it's difficult to know where you stand.
That said, I'm not very torn up over Lunden or Ishtar being banned.  I just don't like how it was done and worry about the future that's all.
It's still a good game.  And if you aren't outspoken about admin decisions, or a shitstarter, you'll be fine anyway.

2021-03-11 18:55:55

Moderation:
LordLundin, post 151, you went too far, bro. Personal attack deserves a warning.

You have every right to criticize someone. You have no right to personally attack them.

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2021-03-11 19:17:11

yeah that's my beef, not that they deserved a ban, because they very clearly did, but how it was executed.

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2021-03-11 19:30:12

Oh, and because he chooses to keep it closed source is a really shitty reason not to play. It's his choice. I wish it were open source, because I generally do prefer it, but god damn.

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2021-03-11 20:18:40

To cw and anyone else considering trying the game, I've personally had no issues, neither have I seen anything from Hawkpadre or anyone else that suggests there would be issues.

Admittedly, I was offline when the hole Ishtaar shindig went down, which either makes me oblivious, or objective.

from where I stand now, Wayfar1444 is just a really good space game which is obviously someone's passion project, and that's no bad thing.

One rule I've found for online games generally, is avoid what my brother refers to as "bolitics", this being a portmanto of "politics", and "bollocks!" And for a clearer definition, *points to both giant Ishtaar mess in that other topic, and to posts in this topic which have been stirred up by self same mess.

GCW is %100 correct that all online games have politics, it is equally true that most online games will run into bolitics from time to time (I gather that Alteraeon and Cosmic rage have both had their shares), but only in a very few cases has said bolitics made a game literally unplayable.

this is indeed why I myself stopped posting in said other thread.


So my personal advice would be to just ignore the sound and fury, do your thing, and enjoy games, and there's a lot in Wayfar1444 to enjoy.

Indeed, the only part of the recent negative spin this topic has taken that does concern me is the idea of Wayfar1444 going down again with no other admins or recourse to keep it running, but we'll just have to see on that one, since for the time being the game is being actively maintained and developed, and here's hoping it stays that way.

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2021-03-11 21:15:50

four Lines of text... Four lines of text with zero context. this is absolutely a bullshit tactic I've seen used time and time again by people who've fallen afoul of staff across various games, It's not me that's the dick... it's them! What's always missing are the few hundred lines of text where they act like abrasive cunts, slowly backing the member of staff into a corner until they end up snapping back. I don't doubt for a second this is what happened here and why should I? There's zero evidence to prove otherwise, just the same dummy spitting we see from your average banned MUD/MOOer. You can see this playing out in the other thread that seems to be related to this, where Caccio72 attempts to play the part of a poor harmless gamer persecuted by the community wherever he goes. He is then willfully obtuse to the extreme, knowing that it will piss everyone else off and that the mods will obediently step in and start handing out warnings. After warnings are handed out, suddenly the guy goes silent and the cycle repeats again.
Isn't the community failure clause  supposed to take care of this kind of thing here? I'm willing to bet that this is what got his ass slapped on wayfar1444, but he keeps doing the same thing here again and again.

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2021-03-11 23:00:46

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2021-03-11 23:01:29 (edited by LordLundin 2021-03-11 23:07:49)

@jayde telling someone off for lying is not a personal attack thanks, warning not accepted. This topic has more stupidity than is good for me.
To everyone that keeps chanting common sense like it's some sort of mantra, you clearly have not read a single thing of what I wrote have you? You have not read anything of what Granny wrote have you? Is it that you do not believe it, or are you simply too dence to understand? I do not care if you play the game or decide to shitpost it or not, but please do not come here and tell me that common sense will save your skin. Granny made a sound pack and helped out with the mud and he still got banned by an admin who calls people faggots and says one thing one moment and acts completely opposite the next.

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2021-03-11 23:52:44

LordLundin wrote:
"Fuck you, Hawgpadre."

I think that's a match.

Your acceptance of my warning is neither expected nor required to validate it. Thanks for coming out.

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2021-03-12 00:34:21

it's funny, so london is band from another game, more to add to the list including swamp, has to make me wonder about this whole thing.

2021-03-12 00:57:05

@166
I think that closed source games while you're running the game is not only fine, it's even a good idea.

But a plan for continuity of your online game if you decide to walk away is important, and he both doesn't have one and has made it clear that he considers it unnecessary.  If he hadn't just randomly taken it down with basically no warning before, shrug, but he's already yanked it out from under people once and I don't intend to invest in something that can render the time spent worthless myself.  But each to their own.

I'm mostly just predicting the forum's reaction: unless he's significantly optimized the code, it's going to eventually fall over and get yanked for using too many resources again.  And then, well, if this thread seems heated...

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2021-03-12 01:32:42

Just to clarify, I never got banned, I chose to leave because I wasn't happy about the way those bans were executed. To appear to be fine one minute, and switch and nuke 3 players the next minute is unpredictability I really don't want or need from not only an admin, but the head admin and MUD owner.

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2021-03-12 01:43:32

well nobody is perfect we're all human. i mean to be blunt when you consider this pandemic we're all in and the stupidness and selfishness of people throughout whether it be refusing to wear masks, refusing the vaccines, i think something like this is pretty trivial. just enjoy the game. right now for a lot of people there's not that much to enjoy. it's funny, throughout this pandemic the day to day wining and bitching never stops if anything it has gotten worse and people are really losing perspective.