2015-10-17 02:24:17

So I got Quick Windows Sequencer, and am still getting the hang of it.

The problem I'm having is with the instruments. The Instrument lists each have so many options, but there are only so many program numbers and it's the program number that defines the instrument sound you can hear. The thing is, I want to try everything and I can't. I also haven't yet worked out how to play with a different instrument—I've resorted to playing with a piano sound using the onscreen keyboard (I don't have a midi cable for my actual keyboard and want a better one anyways), and then changing the track properties afterward. I got some more instrument lists from the QWS website but they don't seem to be doing anything. sad

Can anyone help me out here? I know I can get the hang of this with a bit more time but this instruments issue is really frustrating when several options seem tied to the same program number, which naturally only produces one of the sounds.

2015-10-17 04:59:33

I've found that, for some reason, the default channel doesn't like to stick when I set the instrument. So I basically add an extra channel, and play on that one.
If it helps, you might try opening an existing midi file and looking at the various channels and their properties to see how they're set up. (There are a few in c:\windows\media, if you don't want to hunt for others, but they're not the easiest to follow).
Mostly, I just remember that guitars and bass are in the 25-30 range, strings are somewhere around the 40s, brass is somewhere around 60, woodwinds are after brass, and synths and other special things are usually after that. Different sound fonts handle these differently--the GM specification is more like guidelines than rules.

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2015-10-17 21:05:49 (edited by musicalman 2015-10-17 21:07:58)

Hi,
The only instrument list that will work properly on the default Windows midi synth is the general GM instrument list, to my knowledge. This list comes with Quick Windows Sequencer by default. To use it, go to the options menu, then instruments, select the Microsoft GS Wavetable synth from the list, and assign it to the GM list.
Don't be confused about what instrument lists actually are. Instruments in midi are defined by program and bank numbers which can be defined in the track properties dialog. Different synthesizers put different instrument sounds on different program and bank numbers. For instance, on a GM synth, bank 0 program 0 is a piano sound, while on another synth I have, bank 0 and program 0 is a violin ensemble because it uses its own layout that has nothing to do with GM. Therefore, the instrument lists that you can assign in Quick Windows Sequencer do not contain actual instrument sounds. They instead recall the correct program and bank numbers for that specific synthesizer. If you do not have the synthesizer or module that the list was made for, the list will be of little use to you unless you just want to peruse it to see the instrument layout of the synth.
Also, never put anything on channel 0 unless you have a specific reason to. Always use channels 1 through 16 during normal operation. Channel 0 is only useful for specific purposes, mainly global settings which apply across all channels or for midi type 0 files which have all channels consolidated into one. Chances are, if you're changing instruments, and you have the correct list assigned and you still aren't hearing the changes being made, you're probably on channel 0.
Normally to change and assign instruments, you would first make a new track, set its channel anywhere from 1 to 16, and set the instrument. As you move through the instruments, they will change on the fly, however for the on screen keyboard, the procedure is a little different. For a midi keyboard, you can simply up and down arrow through the list and play the keyboard as you go, since the instruments change on the fly as I said. But for on screen, after changing instruments, you then have to press enter to get back into the main window, as the on screen keyboard can only be accessed from there. If everything works as expected, the instrument should change accordingly.
Hope that helped.

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2015-10-17 21:17:19

I tried out QWS today and got a lot of lag when using the onscreen keyboard option. I don't have an actual keyboard, so I'm forced to use the laptop one. This lag is really annoying, especially since it's all about recording instruments, syncing and preferably making a song eventually. Does anyone know a solution to this problem?
Further, I'm wondering whether you could record a real instrument and use it for one of your tracks; a guitar, for example.
Finally, how would I go about on converting .mid to other formats, such as .mp3 or .m4a?

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2015-10-17 22:19:05 (edited by musicalman 2015-10-17 22:24:22)

The lag you are getting is a result of the awfully made Microsoft GS Wavetable driver, and there is nothing you can do about it. You will have to use another synth. Unfortunately that's not always easy. You can improve things by getting a free synth called Bassmidi which is pretty good and isn't quite as laggy, and it allows you to import your own sounds. It's not the easiest thing to set up and is buggy on certain systems but is generally okay once you get it working first time.
However for the best experience, you need at least an entry level midi keyboard, I'd recommend the lower spectrum of the Yamaha PSR series, which if I remember start at about $200 but could be even lower by now. Once again setting it up isn't the easiest thing in the world but it's not tricky if you know how the connections work. They have plenty to get you started and have their own built-in sounds, which you can later add on to by using VST plug-ins. Problem with VST plug-ins is that they're also laggy unless you have Asio drivers, which depending on system setup may be impossible to get without purchasing a separate sound card which natively includes them.
So as you can see, there's no 10 second simple sollution, whatever you do, you're going to have to do some setup and it may confuse you. It confused me greatly when I first started out.
As for having "real" instruments in QWS, that is a common source of confusion. You cannot record a "real" instrument and just use it as if it were midi data. Midi and audio are two separate things. Midi is the instructions to tell the synth what notes to play, so it's like sheet music. Audio is the actual sound waves that we hear. QWS can't deal with audio, it can just handle midi data. You can convert midis to mp3 with different utilities, but honestly there are so many of them that I never bothered looking for one. Many decent midi players, especially those that don't use the Wavetable driver, have converters built in. I use one called XM play which uses the same engine as the Bassmidi synth I mentioned earlier. Most of the synthesizers I use are hardware anyway, so in order to make an mp3 of a track, I literally have to play the track and record the output in a sound recording program.

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2015-10-17 23:17:08

Okay, so I got both Bassmidi and Coolsoft Virtual synths. Bassmidi's not cooperating right now, so Coolsoft's my default. I have the Arachno sound font, which I've loaded into both Bassmidi and Coolsoft. I hesitate to download other sound fonts, as I don't really understand how to use one at a time.

This morning, when I started playing some of the midi files that come packaged with the compressed Arachno sound font, the music kept skipping randomly (you know, like CDs used to if the player was jolted). It wasn't doing this yesterday when I played the same files, and I've done nothing since then that might have caused this issue. Does anyone know what's happening?

2015-10-17 23:17:19

Thanks for your explanations. They shed some light on the matter. smile
I'm gonna try out that bassmidi synth you suggested. Hope in the end it'll be worth the effort, since you said, "It's not the easiest thing to set up". big_smile

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2015-10-17 23:24:50

Also, I'm glad someone else is getting help from this thread as well! big_smile
I never received lag with the original synth myself, honestly—I only upgraded because the instruments sounded crap. It's the Coolsoft synth that has a delayed reaction. I'm actually considering composing with the Microsoft one and then converting to Coolsoft afterward because of the lack of lag.

2015-10-18 02:35:05

Seriously, the skipping is really jarring. It wasn't doing it last night, but it's been doing it since I started my computer this morning, starting about a couple minutes into the midi file while I'm playing it back. I repeat, between last night when I was happily listening to the midi files because they were that good, and this morning when I turned on my computer, I had done nothing to QWS period, let alone anything to warrant such a change in playback.

2015-10-18 03:08:17

It might be having issues loading samples for the sound font. I know that Bassmidi does this annoying thing where it momentarily glitches when it needs to play a new note for the first time in a session. It got annoying enough that I made a file that just plays a ton of notes to preload most of what I'd need. (And if ever I'd record something, I'd usually let it play through once, to make sure that everything for that song was cached.)

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"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
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2015-10-18 04:33:26 (edited by musicalman 2015-10-18 04:34:43)

Lol K, I've considered doing that myself, though most of the sound fonts I compose for are small enough that the glitches don't last long for me, maybe just a few milliseconds. With big fonts though it becomes a real problem, especially if the font is on a USB drive.
Imaginatrix, your problems with Coolsoft are sadly relatively common. I can't speak much for the driver personally as I only used it for a small amount of time, but it uses the same core engine as Bassmidi does, all be it an older version if my recollection is correct. You can adjust coolsoft's lag, but it requires sighted assistance from what I can tell. However when you adjust it once, an entry will be created in the coolsoft config ini and you can further change it from there. If I still had my old ini lying around, I'd post it someplace and you could paste it into your coolsoft config and change it from there. However since I prefer Bassmidi and it works better on my system, I go to that. also just a thought, maybe things would improve if you uninstall Bassmidi and clear all remnants of it from your system. I seem to remember the two drivers conflicting with each other and it was a hell of a trip to get something working again.
The skipping problems you're having may be indeed what K said, that the driver is loading samples as it needs them and making the output skip as it does so, or they may also be indicative of sound buffering issues. If you can record a sample of it, I may be able to hear what's going on.
Sorry you're having so much trouble!

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2015-10-18 05:48:20 (edited by The Imaginatrix 2015-10-18 05:49:55)

I can't get Bassmidi to work, sadly. Coolsoft cooperated just fine, but Bassmidi wouldn't play anything at all when I tried to use it so I switched back to Coolsoft.

Like I said, it's only been happening since this morning. I can tolerate the lag and was planning on creating the files with the MS synth and converting them to Coolsoft later. I'm still quite knew to this whole thing. I'll see about making an audio clip to show you what I mean. I'll probably send it via PM though for security reasons. smile

2015-10-18 05:59:43 (edited by musicalman 2015-10-18 06:00:51)

Okay, I'll keep an eye out for it, though I am pretty bad at checking pms. I know what you mean by Bassmidi clonking out on you, a friend of mine who has a lot of experience with midi was having very similar troubles with it, and even with the two of us working together we simply could not fix it. I even watched him do it and can confirm that he was doing everything right, but the driver output would sputter and die. I think he even had issues with Coolsoft, though not sure.

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2015-10-18 06:23:44

Okay, the message has been sent. big_smile

2015-10-18 12:11:26

Okay, now that things are back to normal (YAYYY), I have another question. Where are all the cool things like heartbeat and thunder and the sample drums for that matter? I see them on the lists but I can't select them because they don't seem to have program numbers, and yet I know there must be a drumset available since it's been used before when I've played midi files back. I've found a few of the things like ocean waves and tweeting birds, but others just aren't there for some reason, even though they show up in the Instruments dropdown menu. I wanna play around with these things! sad

2015-10-18 15:04:08 (edited by the blasting gd 2015-10-18 15:11:02)

I managed to install bassmidi, set it as default used midi device and yay, the delay doesn't bother me anymore. Just one question, does it matter whether I use port A or B? In what way do they differ from another?
Unfortunately, another obstacle prevents me from trying to put a song together. After applying channel, program, bank etc. and starting the onscreen keyboard, I'm able to play for about a minute or so, thereafter the sounds/notes start getting distorted, they begin to crackle, and fade out. Further presses of any key result in absolute silence. The same thing happens when loading an already existing midi file. Only restarting QWS resolves the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Added: Okay I just noticed that doesn't only apply to QWS, but also to any other player that is able to read midi files. So I'm guessing it must have something to do with bassmidi settings.

Errare humanum est!

2015-10-18 15:45:12

Hello.
About CoolSoft MidiSynth delay, you don't need sighted assistance to
remove it.
I don't know if the names of the options are the same because I use a
translation of it.
Anyways, in its configuration screen, go to the advanced options tab, go
to "additional buffers", remove the value and put in 0.
About having different soundfonts in separate channels, I don't know if such a thing was possible.
I used a script to change the bank numbers of instruments in a
soundfont.
Generally, if you don't have a MIDI instrument, you'll get a piano.
To play the GS instruments (heartbeat) you'll need a GS soundfont to put
accompanyingly with Arachno.
The drums only work on channel 9 (or 10 in QWS).

2015-10-18 16:03:54 (edited by the blasting gd 2015-10-18 16:14:58)

I just read through the posts again and realized that raygrote's friend appears to have had the same issue. I must have missed that the first time I read it. Seems like I'll have to resort to using another synth, unless someone comes up with a solution for this one.

Errare humanum est!

2015-10-18 17:31:48

Greettings all!

You may want to look at:
http://www.andrelouis.com/qws/articles.htm
, for trouble-shooting articles and the like.
Also, you may wish to have a look at the QWS mailing list:
http://www.andrelouis.com/qws/maillist.htm

2015-10-18 17:39:40 (edited by musicalman 2015-10-18 17:42:54)

Blasting GD,
Your Bassmidi problems seem to be common, and i think they occur more with Win 8 and up, as that is what my friend was trying it on. I'm still on Win 7 on both of my machines, and while one has more lag than the other, they both do seem to be able to sustain themselves for extended periods of time. You can adjust lag settings in Bassmidi, but I find they only work sometimes. I can't quite figure out why. Sometimes I wonder if those settings are properly saved when you apply changes, I wish I knew where those settings were stored, in an ini or registry key or whatever, so I could check.
As for why there are two Bassmidi ports, I always use port A. Port B is only useful if you want to have two instances of Bassmidi running at once, i.e. for projects with more than 16 channels. Roland introduced 32 channel midis in the 90s, which is nothing more than two 16 channel midis using 2 ports. Some other synths have even extended that to 64 channels. Due to how the midi spec works, QWS can read many of these extended channel midis just fine, though you will have to assign the ports in QWS since those are synth-specific messages I believe. You can also make your own midis which have more than 16 channels, by assigning different tracks to different ports. Right now I'm working on several compositions which use 4 software synths, totaling just shy of 40 channels per song.

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2015-10-18 19:48:26

The Imaginatrix: All those soudn effects like thunder, heartbeat, etc, are a special drum set. I don't remember the program number (it's usually the same as Trumpet, I think?), but you just set the channel to the percussion channel (usually 10?), then change the program to pick different drumsets.

At the Blasting GD: The problem with crackling only ever happens for me when I have the pedal down too long, and all the quiet-but-still-playing resonance builds a big destructive interference wave. I was under the impression that you had to actively keep the pedal down using the QWS onscreen keyboard, but maybe there's something in whatever sound font you're using that won't stop playing in a timely fashion? The solution should be to have every note stop playing. I suppose there could be some "memory leak" somewhere--like, if you have a note on when you switch octaves, does it stay on forever?--and things like that. I dunno, I've only run into it in the specific case of leaving the pedal down too long.

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"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2015-10-18 20:08:15

Well K, I can tell you from developing sound fonts myself that some of them do indeed do as you describe. They have a really long release on the instruments which consequently make the sample play much longer than they should, even after releasing the key. If the resources can't keep up, it will indeed start crackling as it's trying to play many samples at once. I'm not sure what the official polyphony of Bassmidi is, but I don't find it hard to believe that with large sound fonts that have insanely long release envelopes, it could easily run into problems before the polyphony limit kicks in. What I think the Blasting GD is describing though is a buffering issue. That is, it starts out with enough buffer but for some reason it begins losing ground and the audio system can't keep up. I doubt it matters how many or few samples are playing, at least not exclusively.

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2015-10-18 21:14:18 (edited by The Imaginatrix 2015-10-18 21:24:14)

Here's the list I'm seeing, starting from what I believe to be the first sound effect. I have tried seashore and one bird sample, as they're accessible. So is gunshot and applause, and they have all had an entire keyboard to themselves.
FL.Key Click
Seashore
Rain
Thunder
Wind
Stream
Bubble
Bird
Dog
Horse Gallop
Bird 2 (side note: There are a lot of extra instruments that appear to have the same program number, therefore I only seem to get the first one. sad)
Kitty
Growl
Telephone1
Telephone2
Door Creaking
Door
Scratch
Wind Chimes
Scratch2
Helicopter
Car Engine
Car Stop
Car Pass
Car Crash
Siren
Train:
Jetplane
Starship
Burst Noise
Applause
Laughing
Screaming
Punch
Heart Beat
Footsteps
Applause2
Gun Shot
Machine Gun
Lazargun
Explosion
I've tested some of these out and they're all the same sound no matter what octave I'm on, just lower or higher pitch, and that's just the ones I can access. Does anyone else with Windows7 and QWS know why these things are showing up in the instrument list when I can't get at them?
Edit: I've tried changing the bank numbers as well but that's not making any difference. sad

2015-10-18 21:39:42

So here's my question, how exactly do you load multiple sound fonts into a single instance of coolsoft midi synth, and how do you then make a track for each soundfont in qws? I've tried loading all the files into the soundfont list in coolsoft, but I didn't know how to select which one I wanted for each track in qws. Any help here?

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2015-10-18 21:41:04

The font I'm using is called "WeedsGM3", for anyone who feels like trying it out to test whether it is responsible for the problem I'm having. The reason why I'm using this font is simply that it was the first to be recommended in the list on the homepage of bassmidi. I'm going to try out another font to see if that does the trick. I do like the sounds of that one I'm using though, as long as it works during the first minute that is - I think it's even less than that.

I'm going to try explaining the problem at hand. When I load up a midi file - onestop.mid for example, the one located under "C:\Windows\Media\" -, which I've tried with Winamp and QWS so far, using the bassmidi port A as default synth, everything is fine for a while. After like 40 seconds - I think that's rather accurate than a minute, though I could have just looked it up smile - the crackling starts, it keeps losing volume for like 5 seconds until the track along with the crackling has fully disappeared. If I leave the player/sequencer open, and try to replay the track from the beginning, it won't work. The only way to fix this is to restart whatever player/sequencer I was using - or use another -, and even then it's not really solved as the same happens all over again. Another thing to note is that the crackling and fading start a few seconds later on Winamp than on QWS, for whatever reason...
The exact same thing happens when using the onscreen keyboard. I sorta believe that the start of the crackling is time based, since I set a channel and a program - both port A and B are affected, which makes sense anyway, because it seems like either the synth or the font are the problem, rather than the player/sequencer, first because the Microsoft GS Wavetable synth works fine, besides the lag I get, and second because it can't be a coincidence that both Winamp and QWC, and probably any other, are affected -, opened the onscreen keyboard and waited for a bit. After like half a minute or more, I pressed a single key and it was already crackling, and quieter than usual. Hence, I believe it's time based, but it might also be the losing buffer option, though I'm not too well versed with those things, so I'm open for any explanations you guys can come up with. I'd be grateful for any tip that would help solve this problem.

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