2021-03-07 10:47:22

Hello
I have received approval to take the  Covid vaccine
I know that all vaccines are good, but I am confused, what should I take, here in Saudi Arabia we have the Pfizer vaccine and the Oxford vaccine, according to your experience, what would be better? I heard Pfizer has genetics technology in it. This thing makes me think, that's why I want your advice
thanks.

2021-03-07 11:05:03

I would take the oxford vaccene, though it is less effective, it is still very effective, and is made using established technology, unlike MRNA technology. The longterm effects of MRNA vaccenes are still unknown, and this is the first MRNA vaccene so this would be my choice.

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2021-03-07 11:09:42

I am waiting for the CHinese vaccines to come here. Otherwise I am not vaccinating.

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2021-03-07 11:41:41

i would take the biontech vaxine.

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2021-03-07 12:43:14

`By Oxford vaccine, you mean the Astrazeneca one?

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2021-03-07 12:59:34

@ number 5
yes it is

2021-03-07 13:31:36

Many people in Germany died because of Pfizer. I would never take it

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2021-03-07 16:19:37

I'd take the Pfizer because it works on more of the variants.

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2021-03-07 17:39:19

I will take the AstraZeneca on Martch 15 just because this is what they made me take.
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2021-03-07 18:26:50

Well, I decided to take AstraZeneca on March 9th.

2021-03-07 19:06:37 (edited by camlorn 2021-03-07 19:06:54)

@nuno
People don't die from Pfizer.  Please provide a reputable source.  The only thing I can find is this which is saying that it's being reported by a small news outlet that's probably either fake or blowing it out of proportion (there's a whole contingent of Christians who think that the J&J shot is immoral because J&J also does something unrelated with abortions, for example).  There's no way 30 countries could keep this secret.  China is one of the very few who could pull off a "there are deaths and none of our citizens know" campaign.  Whatever you're hearing--assuming there's more than that one article--is almost certainly propaganda of some sort.  At this point there are hundreds of thousands of people involved in administering those vaccines.  Humanity keeping secrets 101 is that hundreds of thousands of people aren't going to keep their mouths shut if people are dropping dead from it.  We'd have way more than 1 source for 1 nursing home.

Don't scare people unnecessarily, and please work on your critical thinking skills.  If you want to wait on the Chinese vaccine that's your life choice, but there's no reason to not trust the others.

In any case the actual answer to this question is you take whatever vaccine you can get.  There aren't enough on the market yet for you to really have much choice--whatever is at your door is what you've got.  They're all about equally effective at preventing death.  As far as I know whether or not Pfizer is better at the new strains is somewhat of an open question because their trials mostly happened before the new strains were a thing.  Covid is so basic from a vaccine perspective that even the Russian and Chinese vaccines that got rushed out the door probably work fine.  We could have had vaccines going in 3 months if it weren't for bureaucracy and medical ethics people getting in the way.

MRNA vaccines are new but as far as I know there's no reason whatsoever the believe they're dangerous or have long-term negative effects.  The chances that we've somehow invented a one-time shot that you take and then 10 years later you drop dead or something are minuscule.  If it was a medication you kept taking, fine.  But since it's not, it leaves your system and then it's gone.  Any weirdness would show up on the labwork and all the other things they check after that point.  One of the biggest problems with medicine is that if you tell the public something is new, the "o my god it might kill me" crowd starts up.  The reason we didn't have covid vaccines on an actually reasonable timeline is because this mindset has put us in the position of not being able to get relatively simple medical treatments out the door quickly even in an emergency.

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2021-03-07 19:49:32

This link here has the CDC information about covid vaccine deaths. It's not a huge number, but it has happened.

thanks,
Michael

2021-03-07 20:11:53

Come on.  I don't know why I bother.  This is really basic medicine.  1000 out of going on 30 million isn't people dropping dead and some huge conspiracy, it's normal medicine.  Someone somewhere is going to be allergic to whatever, that's just how this works.  Most of those people probably had a pre-existing complication, such as an allergy to the ingredient, but it's not hidden data or some grand "we had better investigate" conspiracy.

It's like how the entire AstraZenica trial got put on hold because of that one guy with an entirely unrelated condition who died wile in it, or the thing about how one of them had to write a detailed report for the FDA about when one of their participants got struck by lightning.

Even assuming it's 1000 out of 30 million or whatever (I think it's higher now) that's a 1 in 30000 chance.  It's not even that high because pre-existing conditions, falsely attributed deaths, etc.  I'm pretty sure we're well beyond 30 million doses administered too at this point, so it's even lower than that.  A quick Google says that there's 12 deaths per 100000 people in the U.S. due to cars, which is 1 in 8000.  SO you're 3 times less likely to die from the Covid vaccine than from getting hit by a car, and that's *before* we ask questions like "are you allergic to x", "are you sick today", "is your immune system suppressed" etc.

Which, again, it's not some huge thing we need to investigate.  You're at a much higher risk just crossing the street on your way to work. SO let's all stop freaking.

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2021-03-07 20:16:35

Lol, someone is on a propaganda trip again.
Nuno, tell ya what, what about you find some reputable sources about Covid vaccine deaths in Germany related to the biontech/Pfizer vaccine and provide them here? And no, I am not talkking about your chinese backwater blogs.

I won't really have a say in what vaccine I get, it'l still take a few months till I am eeligeable for a vaccination spot on the list.


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2021-03-07 20:25:52

Well, all things being equal, a vaccene developed using the same technology as previous ones is by default more trustworthy than one  using newer techniques for the first time. Medications that have persisted in the body before after even a single dose and cause perminent disability aren't unpresidented at all, see fluroquinolone antibiotics. If someone wanyts to take that risk on their own, that's fine, but noone should ever have the right to force that on someone else. If someone has perminent disability from something, or gets killed, its  not the doctor who will have to live with that, nor the vaccene company. People should take charge of their own health rather than blindly accepting as gospel  the decisions others would make for them.

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2021-03-07 20:35:50

as  for those ethics regulations, they should exist, especially given the large number of unethical and fucked up experiments that were performed that resulted in those regulations in the first place

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2021-03-07 20:45:31

Several points. I don't think the vaccine repayment fund will repay people without proof the vaccine was to blame, but you're right, allergies, weird situations do crop up, and as I said the numbers are small, but there are reported cases.
On the other hand, if you're not counting cases of anyone who has any conditions or risk factors, then you have to look at the lethality of covid for that group of people, and it's about as bad as the flu in a bad year. The last numbers I heard for the CFR rate were 99.7 survivability for people under 65.
You say don't be afraid of the vaccine, I'm more concerned about the long-term effects of humanity messing with genetics trying to get something out in a hurry than I am about a virus which I have about as much chance getting over as I do the flu.
That being said, I think that everyone should do what makes them most comfortable so long as they're not forcing others to do the same. I'm surprised enough already that people put up with a three week shutdown to flatten the curve for a year now. I'd rather die from covid than avoid living in a state of perpetual fear until politicians and medical people funded by those politicians say it's okay.

thanks,
Michael

2021-03-07 20:47:41

I got the Pfizer vaccine.
These conspiracy theorists are really getting on mine and other peoples nerves right now with their fake anti-vaccine crap.
Whats next?
Are they going to try and link covid vaccines to autism too?

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2021-03-07 21:10:13

Who said anything about antivaccine? I think vaccine theory is based on sound principles. I am against rushing to get experimental genetic modification, at least until more studies have been done on the long-term effects. I choose not to get flu shots because the strain they choose is based on their predictions and they consider 30 percent efficacy a good year, last year was the first time in seventeen years that I got the flu, the previous time was several weeks after I was forced to get a flu shot.
Also, if you take into account the fact that if you get the vaccine, you're not immune, and you can still transmit, what is the net gain? From the way I view it, if 0 means you're not immune and 1 means you're immune, you can vaccinate all day long, and add 0 to the whole world's population and you're never going to add up to 1.

thanks,
Michael

2021-03-07 21:26:12

@15, can you actually prove that the phiser vaccine isn't trustworthy? Yeah, its made with new technology but so what? It can't cause dangerous complications. (If it can, please, prove it.) Go look at what MRNA is -- because I don't think you actually understand what it is and what it can do. Its a messenger. Its an instruction manual. That's it. It doesn't modify DNA sequences, or alter cell production, or kill off critical bacteria, or cause dehydration, or cause mental problems, etc. And as Camlorn said, the likelihood of it being able to actually do anything at all is minuscule to almost nil because in 10 years the vaccine won't even be in your system. Hell, in a year it won't even be there.

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2021-03-07 21:29:22

The people who died do to the vaccine was do, far as I know do to allergic reactions

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2021-03-07 21:51:53

I'm gitting the vaccine on Friday but I doubt I get a choice. Not sure which to pick if I did.

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2021-03-07 22:10:03

@19 there is a fundamental flaw in your message which is that it is  binary. It is not binary whether you are infected or not because of the degree of infection and transmission. Different vaccines cause cells to act differently because of the tech they use, and when those cells fight the virus, it decreases the viral load in the body. The question is, of course, by how much. People with low viral loads might still have the virus but show no symptoms. People with even lower viral loads have a lower chance of transmitting it to other people. People with higher viral loads are more likely to be hospitalized than those with lower viral loads, and people with higher viral loads are more likely to have severe illness or die than those with lower ones. Vaccines can drastically lower the chance of severe illness, hospitalization, and death even though they may not completely eradicate the virus. WIthout the idea of being inefceted as a binary, none of your other points about not being afraid of the virus , or that it's just a flu, really work.

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2021-03-07 22:33:47

Vaccines have always been about risk management. Rare side effects/circumstances vs effectiveness of vaccine and severity of risk due to infection. If there was a risk of polio or small pox, the threat a vaccine may pose pales in comparison, for example.

As for vaccine types, the [AstraZeneca] vaccine essentially does the same thing the Pfizer vaccine does. It encodes the COVID spike protein that it uses to infect cells as DNA, and loads the payload into a chimpanzee adenovirus. That virus then enters your cells to instruct your cells to build the Spike protein to build antibodies.

The [Pfizer] vaccine actually slips in an mRNA data packet into your cells, like the [virus itself], but only for instructions for the virus's spike protein it uses to attack. The cells then manufacture the spike protein, sans viral payload to get a heads up on the attack vector it uses and builds an antibody defense. To understand that process a little better you can read [this], or [this].

The huge advantage with mRNA is that they seem to be more effective at being taken up and building antibodies, and are easier to manufacture, so you can make vaccines and booster shots and such very quickly that are very effective.

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2021-03-07 22:57:31

20,  you can't proove anything, as  this is a newer tech that has been out only recently. Has it even been shown that the rna inserted into cells completely is gone?   Just because you can't  prove  that it can cause severe complications doesn't mean it doesn't cause them. Remember absence of evidence doesn't equal evidence of absence.

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