2020-11-19 18:57:48

Guidelines says:
You will not face punishment for failing to adhere to our guidelines unless you are doing so repeatedly for a prolonged period of time.
Guidelines also says:
5. Please consider others when you post. While some users do not mind having game details discussed at length, others do not want their experience spoiled. As such, we ask that you clearly mark any game info that could constitute a spoiler with some sort of text which denotes it as such.

Is this no longer true now? Is a first offence simply enough to be escalated straight up to a warning now? If so, shouldn't this have been communicated to forum users, instead of the goalposts again being quietly shifted in the background?
Ops post history isn't exactly bulging with spoilers, so the repeated offender bit doesn't even apply in this case.
So what is it? Are the guidelines to be gently enforced unless repeatedly flouted or is it just brutal crackdown because fuck you?
Please decide one way or another, post it in a highly visible place that the community can notice it and then enforce...
C O N S I S T E N T L Y.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2020-11-19 19:05:26

@26
I don’t think the guidelines changed. It’s just jack taking things too far as usual. Ever since he got elected to the mod team he’s been jumping the gun on several cases that shouldn’t have been like that. Giving warnings where cautions are due and even sometimes giving warnings for minor in fractions

2020-11-19 20:40:57

I think the caution system is dumb, just don't get three warnings in the time it takes them to burn off. Shouldn't be too difficult. That being said, yes the rules should be enforced consistently.

2020-11-19 20:42:56

@Exodus and @mechaSkyGuardian: You're forgetting that a caution is in fact exactly what I gave out at first. And then some people said wait, shouldn't that be a warning? And on further reflection, I agreed, after all, Simba did get a warning for blatantly posting a spoiler then refusing to edit it. Bradp did the same thing, minus the excessive kickback to communal response. So here we have a warning. And Exodus does have a good point re: guidelines. If anyone is moving the goalposts, it's the community saying wait, do this, no wait, do this, no wait, this is going too far, or wait this is too soft. What is it that you guys want?

2020-11-19 20:48:17

The difference here was SightlessHorseman posted a little post in a topic while this guy just randomly posted a topic, with the spoiler then left. To me this seems like a giant fuck you I don't care hahahahahahahahahah.

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2020-11-19 21:02:11 (edited by LordLundin 2020-11-19 21:04:27)

This only blew up because of how big the Stormlight Archive is. Had it been anything smaller in scope, no one would've cared.
Actually OP also spoiled it to us in a private server, but I told him I don't really care since I have the memory of a stage 3 dimentia patient and it'll be long since forgotten in a year when Graphic audio comes out with the book.
I'd read it in text / audio format but I've read the rest in GA so it'd be weird to change that now.

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2020-11-19 22:13:56

All this fuss and the guy hasn't even replied... just ignore the topic and let it get buried. Show's over. lol

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2020-11-20 01:16:15

29:
Simba/sightlessHorseman's warning back then was shitty, heavy handed and about as structurally sound as a wet paper bag.
Again the guidelines (NOT THE RULES!!!) state:
You will not face punishment for failing to adhere to our guidelines unless you are doing so repeatedly for a prolonged period of time.
Simba/sightlessHorseman's post history indicates that he does not have a history of intentionally spoiling things for people, aka he was not repeatedly failing to adhere to  the guidelines for a long period of time. His warning though given and elapsed should not be held against him in any future decisions that the staff have to take as it was given unfairly using bad logic.
Also:
From the guidelines again, not the rules:
we ask that you clearly mark any game info that could constitute a spoiler with some sort of text which denotes it as such.
We ask means that we do not require, you can ask me for money but I am not required to give it to you. You can ask me to tag my spoilers as such, but I'm not required to do so. If I continue to do so over a period of time, the by all means take whatever punitive action you feel is necessary. Per the current guidelines though, I nor anyone else (bradp for example) can be punished for flouting them a single time.
In this particular situation 29, you allowed yourself to be led by the nose by people who essentially used you as a weapon to club someone who did a thing that they did not like instead of referring to the guidelines that we follow on both sides to prevent this kind of situation from happening. This is a failing on your side of things, not the community shifting goalposts like you're attempting to gaslight the community into believing.
Perhaps instead of taking liberties with the guidelines you could pole the forum's userbase to see if they would like a no spoiler rule that's punishable immediately?
I personally think that such a rule would be a bad idea as it would just lead to situations where people would end up policing the people they do not like, waiting for them to slip up so they can point the mod team at them and fire. The current guidelines if enforced  consistently seem like the best way to handle spoilers given that the forum currently lacks a way for people to tag posts as spoilers. Under the current guidelines spoiler posting assholes will swiftly make themselves apparent to everyone else who will then know that anything they post in threads titled with a book/tv show/game/movie name. should be avoided. If they continue to stink up the place then they can also be punished.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2020-11-20 02:56:06

@33 I agree with you in the sense SightlessHorseman's warn was rediculously heavy handed back then, as the topic was talking about that specific thing and it was just a casual mention, but the thing that erks me here in this instant is the fact OP created an entire topic spoiling apparently a major plotpoint in a book, then just left. Its like punching someone in the balls after they pissed you off vs pulling out a rifle and shooting someone because they stepped on your toe. The first one is bad yeah, but the second one is way way worse. However I do agree Simba's warn in that priare topic was BS and I said as much. His subsequent ban which I believe was also helped by that was also goal post pushing, but erm lets not derail anymore.

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2020-11-20 04:44:02

@Exodus: Owing to how a lot of people react to spoilers on here, I have a feeling if we did poll for it people might actually vote in favor of it being a guideline. Problem? As you said, the forum's got no way of facilitating this. I searched up and down for pun-bb extensions that would allow this and any of them that got released have since fallen out of date with the latest pun-bb builds. Still, BSC/other list members survived just fine with spoiler tags being an enforced rule actually, and compared to other forums we are almost too nice when it comes to spoilers as most forums have a don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out policy when it comes to spoilers.
Again. Nothing we do will satisfy everyone. Defender wanted a warning, as he rightfully pointed out that the o p practically made a hit-and-run. Incidentally, when this was brought up internally, one of us had initially suggested a warning and I was the one that had suggested to give a caution. Lots of time passed after that caution, time in which the post was not edited. Had he gone in and edited the post, we would not have been at this still. But he didn't, and such is the result.

2020-11-20 05:24:52 (edited by defender 2020-11-20 05:25:29)

@Exodus
Moderator discretion is a widely accepted clause on social media platforms everywhere.  I don't agree with some of Jack's recent decisions either, but considering the obviously purposeful nature of this spoiler I think his judgement here was solid.
Guidelines and rules aren't meant to be completely rigid, and since this was a warning rather than a ban, putting this to a vote for the entire mod team would have been a waste of time.
I point out enforcement inconsistencies sometimes as well, but just like Jack does, I take intent into account because I'm not a robot.

2020-11-20 05:42:49

Also, warnings generally do not fall under staff majority agreement, it's community failure clause that does.
Keeping in mind as well that I made damn sure there was, for example, a link to order Pokemon Yellow in place before removing the rom link from the highly commendable accessibility mod post.
As far as interpretation goes we all interpret things differently, and spoilers are more of a moral grayarea that some of us are willing to admit. Part of the problem is really fanning the flames, which is why decisive action is becoming more and more of a problem as for what to do, as we need to make good on providing due punishment before the fuck you posts start to stack up.
That being said, I do have a proposal. And this is nothing official, just gathering data here. Given how different people react to spoilers, for some it's extremely touchy and for others not so much, would there be any objections to potentially starting a poll as to whether or spoilers should be a guideline or a rule. BEcause I do agree that consistency needs to be at play here.

2020-11-20 07:04:02

My quick take on this:

The Blind Horseman's original warning months back was definitely a little heavy-handed. I won't say it was straight-up wrong, but a caution might have done there. People can spoil without meaning to or by forgetting to put in some sort of tag or spoiler warning. Intent matters a bit here.

I am fully in favour of the topic creator in this thread getting a warning, and the reason is simple.
This user posted a title that is in and of itself a huge spoiler. There's really no way to prepare yourself for this, and I suspect that the user knew it. This user then made a short post, again with no spoiler info, explaining further large details about that series. Double whammy. If he had just made that post in one of the many fantasy topics, maybe he gets a caution to be careful since that spoiler was pretty damn huge, but the fact that he made a topic with a spoiler-tastic title, plus the post itself, plus no action on his part to update either one after people called him out, is grounds for a warning.

It's not explicitly set out in the protocol, but if you want us to make a seven-and-a-half-page document with all possible clauses, please do continue the argument, Exodus. I agree completely that moderation should be as consistent as possible, so I'm with Jack and many others on that score. But I don't really think it's reasonable to cover for every possible and potential action a user can take. i.e., I think you know by now that while we have more rules and more case law to play with than, say, five years ago, we also do bear intent into account quite a bit when people break the rules.

Once again, it's lose-lose for us. We don't have enough clarity, and you howl for more. We give you more, then you get upset when something is missed and suggest that there's maybe too many rules and too much meddling. Sorry, but you can't possibly have it both ways. We'll continue to try to be transparent and to stay accountable, and we intend to impose punishments with as neutral a perspective as we can, but if you're really only here to spit snark when we do something that is not 100% consistent, then I daresay you may be a bigger part of the problem than the solution.

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2020-11-20 07:36:43

On another point here lundin you should read the spoken narration audiobook version of the books. I checked and there is a significant difference in time. For example, words of radience is aprox 47 hrs, and oathbringer is around 55. But the ga book is  37 vs 40. Also  I am reading alot of comments online that some parts of  the plot were totally cut out.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2020-11-20 07:48:09

Graphic Audio routinely keeps to the plot. Stuff is faster because you're hearing the action and descriptions...it's actually a pretty huge undertaking to convert one of those books. But I can tell you that yeah, some of the internal stuff is broken or just mangled. It's fun and all, but I greatly prefer a version that's true to the source.
Now if I can only find a version that's not, y'know, three huge enormous Audible files. I still suck at cutting up files into smaller bites.

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2020-11-20 08:06:00

Jayde, as there were many comments on forums etc of ga cutting out side plots or certain scenes, I thought it would be a good idea to read the regular versions. As for chaptering, programs like inaudible or similar, that convert the audible format into any format  you choose can read the chapter markers on the file, and split the file into individual chapters.
But yeah, according to ga's release schedule, rhythm of war will not be complete  until the end of October.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2020-11-20 16:32:08

Storms, now I'll be up all night trying to get to that part.

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Cultivation is awesome! I mean, can you imagine how much future sight that must have taken, how much planning to get Nightblood on Roshar and into Szeth's hands, getting Teravangian or however you crem you spell it, all prepared... Wow! Now I'm even more excited about the book. I'm at a very low point in the book, so I'm glad it ends so well but wait a storming minute, if Raiz dies in this book, what will... Ah, book five must be about splentering Odium itself, the Shard. Raiz is dead, the Vessel, but the Shard is still around.

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So yeah I'll be up all night.

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2020-11-20 17:22:21

@42 wow now I want to read it even more. I've always been a fan of cultivation but that escalated quickly. Neat.

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2020-11-20 17:39:07

Spoiler cat lol.

You ain't done nothin' if you ain't been cancelled
_____
I'm working on a playthrough series of the space 4X game Aurora4x. Find it here

2020-11-20 19:25:02 (edited by devinprater 2020-11-20 21:07:08)

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Yeah, she's set apart Dalinar, Lyft, and Terravangian. For some reason. It looks like Terravangian is done, but Dalinar and Lyft... I think Dalinar will fix Honor, who was slintered by Odium, and become Honor's vessel. Maybe Lyft will become Cultivation's new Vessel? I mean, I don't know, maybe Cultivation knows that the Intent of the Shard is making the Vessel less able to actually control it? Hmm. Gosh the Cosmere is amazing!

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2020-11-20 22:29:22

Spoiler
Doggy
@42 lift taking up Cultivation's shard as a safe guard against Odium has been a long standing theory.
Doggy leaves
End Spoiler
Honestly I never really get into the subplots of books or shows or analyze the lore in great detail. My memory is shot so I'll settle for enjoying the journey, which is very enjoyable.
From a lore perspective, Mistborn is so much easier to explain than Stormlight.

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2020-11-21 01:49:20 (edited by matt1211 2020-11-21 01:50:48)

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I'm at the part where Shallon is trying to find the ghost blood spy in her crew while they're all in shadesmar, after Teft and Kaladin find that guy with one arm. It seems like a pretty low point in the book, with some of my favourite main characters being relligated to side roles. These books usually make awesome comebacks though, so I'm excited.
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Prier practice and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

2020-11-22 15:16:08

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It will get much, much better. Keep an eye out for Taravangiun, he'll be important! Oh and read all the eppigraphs, the things at the beginning of chapters. Those are awesome too!

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2020-11-22 15:44:35

I like how all the universes of his books are coming together. I'm recognizing lots of them from other books, and it's cool to see.
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Pretty sure the before chapter things in part 2 are Sazed (I know I'm spelling that wrong,) talking to the new Odium. I am just at the beginning of part 3 now, it's getting really interesting

Prier practice and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

2020-11-22 15:56:56

Be sure you've read Elantris, you'll see something cool from there, and Mistborn Secret History, you'll see a small thing from there.

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