2020-04-08 23:48:47

I have a lot of processes going on my computer at the moment, and it's causing NVDA to drag like a snail through molasses in the winter time. This means that, in order for me to use my computer semi-efficiently, I must resort to switching screen readers. Here are my thoughts so far.
I love how you can set different voices for different elements of the screen reader; for example, it will say the name of the item with the main voice, and the shortcut key through the "Cuter and Message Voice" as it calls it. This is a feature I really wish NVDA had, even if only in addon form.
Is it just me, or does the Jaws cursor seem to be very clunky? I needed to use it to check the progress of my Steam download, and I had trouble clicking on things. Not sure what's going on there.
I heard that you can assign certain sounds for controls, much like the NVDA Audio Themes addon. However, I'm not exactly sure where to find that feature.
I'll update this post if I can think of anything else.

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2020-04-09 00:51:43 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2020-04-09 00:53:01)

its been too long since i had used jaws, a few considerations:
Get a program called process lasso and please try to optimize your pc too, because switching sr's for the reason that your pc is slow really is just too unrelated of a thing, I bet at least 30% of these processes you don't need anyway. My impression with jaws before is that it did reserve a chunk of your total CPU availability to simulate a faster performance and that it did not crash, except that the very sad problem really was, or maybe still is,  that ram management was quite ugly, and so was intercepting the drivers every single time. That actually screws up many things, everything from screens suddenly not being showing any kind of information, and all kinds of weird stuff with the jaws cursor and many welcome crashes.
The settings you are talking about I think are part of the Speech and Sounds Schemes found in the settings center. Its nifty and all, but remember that the more sounds and stuff you have, probably the more ram jaws will use, and the more reading and fetching from disk that has to be done... in a situation like yours, where you say that you have a lot running, that might just lag unpleasantly, at least at start up or when jaws needs a sound for the first time, but that all depends on internal workings and things that its makers will never reveal.

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2020-04-09 01:34:32

I dunno. I used NVDA for like a year (by that I'm saying that I'm a novice), and while I prefer NVDA for games and OCR and other cwithtain things, I honestly find word processing to be much smoother with JAWS, especially with Notepad and writing code. Maybe it's also because of Elloquence, so there could be that I like that better than the OneCore voices, but these are JUST MY OPINIONS, meaning that they are by no means objective.

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2020-04-09 02:06:11

I use JAWS as my main screen reader, and I keep NVDA around as a backup. The main thing that keeps me using JAWS, is the braille support. NVDA's braille support is good, but typing in braille in JAWS is just so smooth. NVDA feels kind of clunky.

2020-04-09 02:14:43

@4 could you reccomend any good tutorial for braille support in JAWS? As much as I'd like to use it, I'm not sure if there's a tutorial for it. I consulted the training but couldn't find it there.
Same honestly with VoiceOver on Mac regarding Braille support for me. I would use it, but the pan keys aren't set to the thumb keys like on IOS, so I'm not sure how easy and efficient it can be to getting around the system.

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2020-04-09 03:11:00

It's "tutor and message voice", not "cuter and message voice".
Sorry, that actually made me laugh.

My main issue, and the one which has me not switching to NVDA as a more primary screenreader, is that in a lot of websites I use, I prefer the way Jaws lays things out. In the game I'm developing, for instance, Jaws and chrome go together beautifully, while if you use NVDA there is blank space everywhere, and I don't know why, and I don't know how to fix it.

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2020-04-09 04:46:56 (edited by swigjr23 2020-04-09 04:57:34)

@5

I would take a look at the help in JAWS. Take a look at the section called BrailleIn. It talks about how to control your computer using one of the Focus displays. Also, just turning on keyboard help and pressing keys on the display can help. I don't know why they don't have a training book on it. I can help with if you have spacific questions.

2020-04-09 05:19:41

Okay. I'll look into it.
Don't have a Focus display, but I would think controlling it from a BrailleNote shouldn't be *mch* different.

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2020-04-09 05:29:49

I didn't realize the spell check set it to cuter; that's rather amusing. I'm having trouble hearing properly at the moment, so I heard tutor instead of what it actually put down.

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2020-04-09 05:56:34

swigjr23 wrote:

I use JAWS as my main screen reader, and I keep NVDA around as a backup. The main thing that keeps me using JAWS, is the braille support. NVDA's braille support is good, but typing in braille in JAWS is just so smooth. NVDA feels kind of clunky.

Have you tried while using the BrailleExtender NVDA add-on?

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/ … er.en.html

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2020-04-09 09:52:33

The reason why I use JAWS is because the command to move at the top or bottum of a page works within a web browser.

Meanwhile, this command does work within NVDA, but not within web pages.

But I would say one thing: NVDA is more certainly more customizable than JAWS.

2020-04-09 10:14:13

I use JAWS as my primary screenreader because its nice, fast, snappy, logical and efficient.

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2020-04-09 12:09:27

@11 what? Ctrl home and ctrl end move you to the top or bottom of the web page.

2020-04-09 12:31:52

I agree with op re: message voice. It's one of the features I miss ever since I switched to NVDA a few years ago. It makes it so easy to tell what's on screen and what is extra screen-reader feedback. It helps in programs like Excel. With NVDA you'll hear something like "test a1," whereas in JAWS you'll hear "test [messageVoice:a1]".

Other than that, NVDA is great, far better than it used to be. I've tried playing with JAWS recently and found that it will randomly stop speaking things (how annoying is it to have Notepad++ suddenly stop reading?) And in my line of work I don't have time for these types of annoyances.

2020-04-09 15:21:37

How difficult would it be to theoretically have add-ons compiled for JAWS features that NVDA doesn't have? Things like different voice for events. We've already got profiles, so why don't we take that to the next level? I only ask because I have no idea what it's like to develop and support an NVDA add-on. In terms of performance, is there something that NV Access can work on to improve this?

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2020-04-09 15:44:53 (edited by Chris 2020-04-09 15:52:50)

The changes to the way NVDA handles speech in 2019.3 should allow for these kinds of changes in the near future. I refuse to use JAWS as a manner of principle and because I despise Vispero and their business practices. Purchasing and merging with all their commercial competition in the United States is not cool at all! They have a lovely monopoly going because of it. I'd much rather use NVDA and support the life-changing work going on rather than dealing with activation issues and supporting a company that cares more about their bottom line than the users they claim to want to help. Where's the JAWS annual program for people outside of the United States? Where's a more affordable JAWS annual plan for some of the business features like Remote Desktop and Tandem Direct support?

Jayde, the blank line thing might be a JAWS setting. As I understand it, JAWS has an option to eliminate blank lines from web content.

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2020-04-09 15:56:08

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Freedom Scientific is a monopolist?
Jeez leweez. I had to use jaws the other day to clean up my NVDAremote, and personally I found it less responsive than NVDA. In fact, I haven't used jaws in such a long time I forgot all the commands. People who say things like
NVDA's top to bottom gesture doesn't work are people who doesn't know about NVDA. I actually laughed when I heard that one, because I use that feature a hel of a lot on this forum. Personally, I think it truly comes down to preference. Because they're basically the same. I have a friend whose loaded. I mean loaded with cash. The guy spent close to 50K TT in accessibiity from FS. I told him about NVDA and he was like, "really? Hmmm-hmmm. How  very interesting"
RReading one of the posts in this topic made me think of Apple Vs. Android. You know how people say, "with android I have so much options!" And they usualy don''t do anything with those features? Its the opposite here. People actually uses NVDA's feature to their advantage

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2020-04-09 15:57:03

Oh and NVDA works fine when reeading code.

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2020-04-09 16:11:47

@Chris, Yes, that is definitely an option. I've seen it in a what's new document before.
@Jaidon Of the Caribbean, I'm not sure what you mean in regards to Android users not taking advantage of Android's options. You may have seen forums wheree this takes place, but thankfullly, I haven't. Not yet at least.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (@Minionslayer0). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Mastodon at @Minionslayer.

2020-04-09 16:54:23

Some responses:

@10,
Yes I have the add on installed, but braille input still seems clunky. It could just be me experiencing that.

@14,
I have started noticing JAWS stop speaking as well. I don't think JAWS is quite as reliable as it used to be.

To be honest, if I couldn't pick up JAWS for $90 a year, I would use NVDA.

2020-04-09 17:49:09

I've been using Jaws 2018 since, well, 2018. I've had it crash a couple of times - four or five - but I just restart it and it's fine. The screenreader, not the entire machine.
But that's...literally about it. I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess. Jaws doesn't regularly crash on me, and it doesn't lag, either.

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2020-04-09 18:03:15

@21, you're correct: JAWS hardly ever crashes. But what me and @20 are referring to is that JAWS will stop reading certain windows. For example, I see this problem in Notepad++ a lot.

JAWS will read the editor fine in one instant, then suddenly when you switch back to Notepad++ the arrow keys do nothing.

You have to restart JAWS to get it to read the window again.

So it's not necessarily that it's crashing--it hardly ever does--but that it's functionality is neither consistent nor reliable.

2020-04-09 19:56:32

When using JAWS, I agree that it is slightly more efficient navigating Microsoft Word documents than NVDA, but there are a number of things that JAWS does within its braille support that are very poor supports indeed (in my opinion). Some of these are indications of formatting. No matter if something is bolded, underlined or italicized, JAWS uses dots 7 and 8 (dots that are not normally used, especially in the United States) to indicate all those types of formatting. Even though you may put dots 4-5 followed by 2 to indicate bold, they intermingle with dots 7 and 8, and therefore make it very hard to discern what’s going on with a block of formatted text. You could press Jaws key+f of course, but it is much faster to read a formatting change in Braille. Also, when it comes to mathematical content, JAWS is woefully inadequate for reading high-level mathematical and scientific equations. I am currently a college student taking intro-level Chemistry, and the reading of these equations by a screen-reader is required since my textbook is online. NVDA, however, reads math content smoothly and flawlessly, even displaying it as Nemeth content on my braille display.
So in short, I think JAWS should stay around for some things, but I definitely only use it as a secondary screen-reader.

2020-04-09 20:03:16

@23 that should seriously be adopted by all screen readers. The actual Braille symbols exist, so why not use them?
And also, true point. Had I not been given JAWS for free from my Vocational Rehabilitation center (good computer notwithstanding), I would have deffinitely gone with NVDA had that been my only option.
I agree with your sentiment about it sort of being down to preference, Jaidon.
A little off topic, but I did not like using the PC when I was in elementary school. On those computers, they had Window Eyes, and it never seemed to work well at all. I just  didn't like it. I would like to know if my child perceptions were getting in the way of it being a good screenreader, or if it was actually bad.

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2020-04-09 20:31:09

I've actually never used that or Super Nova. How are they?

You ain't done nothin' if you ain't been cancelled
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