2020-03-14 23:09:03 (edited by criticview 2020-03-14 23:26:31)

While watching a technology show on youtube this morning, I was made aware of a really interesting piece of software.
On the website https://www.foldingathome.org you can find more information on how exactly this is done.
In short, you help out science by computing with several thousands of other users, several ways / forms / shapes certain proteins take when interacting with other things, for instance a certain virus with the human body. The more people help compute, the faster results could be investigated, and hopefully, the faster things get along.
Sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYFHrCJE0I
the youtube show that started all of this.
https://foldingathome.org/2020/02/27/fo … 2019-ncov/
the reason why this seems important to me.
https://www.polygon.com/2020/3/3/211629 … g-donation
an alternative source of information, witch is not the home page.
https://lifehacker.com/how-to-assist-co … 1842270929
yet another info source.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161 … oronavirus
And finally, this is what the verge had to say about all of this.

For all you skeptic peeps out there: read before whiping this off the table as useless / a bunch of ... ...

Cheers

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2020-03-14 23:53:11 (edited by defender 2020-03-14 23:54:42)

it's called distributed computing and it's very legit, scientists use it because there aren't enough super computers for everyone's projects due to the high cost. everything is encrypted, and your results are compared to other peoples to make sure the data is accurate.
You can set up how much CPU power you want your computer to use for it, or run it only when you aren't using your computer like a screensaver.
The client I used also allowed you to automatically stop processing data as soon as you started using your processor heavily for another task.
I hope this client is more accessible than world community grid, that's the one I was trying before. it was really cool to see the numbers going up and to no I was making a small difference, and it was even somewhat accessible…
But to really customize it to what I wanted was quite difficult, and it stopped working after a while.

2020-03-15 00:27:43

Its difficult to consider this legit when the same technology is used on a much wider scale by hackers than it is by legitimate people. That, and the fact that most distributed computing programs don't allow you to see what they're actually doing, or present you information that looks legit but actually isn't what the program is really doing. The concerns over the legitimacy of this is definitely valid, especially if the corporation isn't transparent about what they're doing.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2020-03-15 01:01:10

That's nearly the same as saying you should not use office, because hackers use that suite to write their reports and todo lists, and when you press the "save" button, do you really know what happens? Yes, your document is stored on the spot where you want, but is that "really" all that happens?

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2020-03-15 01:06:05

But, to answer your questions in fairness. Yes you know what the program is doing because you get an overview of what you are simulating, or at least, to what end you are. And, if you really can't resist, there's a protein viewer accessible from the system tray, so you can actually "see" what's going on. As for them being legit, and not evil per say... if a comunity that is part of a 10 mil youtube channel thinks it's fine to join, and if sed channel actually acknowledges this in their live show, as well as activly spredding the way to help, than that sufices for me.

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2020-03-15 01:32:47

@4-5, no, its not. The ratio for distributed computing is, in the mainstream average everyday market, far wider with malware/botnets or companies that aren't transparent at all (e.g.: companies that "pay" you for distributed computing). I'm not saying I distrust this, nor am I saying its evil. What I'm saying is that I would perfectly understand why someone would be hesitant to adopt this.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2020-03-15 02:43:46 (edited by defender 2020-03-15 02:47:24)

World community grid was run by Berkeley, and had the blessing of many well-known organizations, so I trusted it.
this one seems like it has been adopted quite widely as well, and unless there is something specifically pointing to it being sketchy, I wouldn't assume that. after all, condemning distributed computing in general just because it's the same method  botnetss use is very similar to condemning the bit torrent protocol  because it's used for piracy.
Frankly, I for one am more than willing to take the risk if I can contribute something.

2020-03-15 09:04:34

Thank you for sharing this! It is a shame so many people are automatically distrustful, but hopefully, at least a few will decide to help out.
You can find even more scientific research to contribute to on BOINC, an open source platform designed specifically for such jobs, which you can find here:
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/
You can choose which research you want to help out with yourself, or, if you don't feel like setting all that up, use Science United to just select which areas of science interest you the most (which is what I did).
https://scienceunited.org
If anyone decides to give the scientists a hand, thank you. You're awesome! smile

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2020-03-15 09:57:22

Hi.


@Mayana, I signed up and am using POINC but don't fully get it? From what i understand, scientists in the fields I chose are using my computer power... Somehow... TO study to science stuff?


Can you explain a bit more? How does me giving computer power help out scientists?

Don't they all have their own computers with ram and processers and all that? How would me giving what ever it is I'm giving them help?

I'm gone for real :)

2020-03-15 14:06:01

World community grid uses Boinc, which is fully accessible on both Windows and Linux with only minor fiddling (use simple view on Linux, and advanced on Windows). I can't speak for other projects, but essentially the premise behind WCG is that researchers are able to obtain computer power faster than they otherwise would (it runs about 500 years of computing a day), since traditional supercomputers have long wait times. You can find more information on their currently running projects at:
https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/rese … rojects.do
Currently the list includes climate research (predicting rainfall in Africa for farmers), two different cancer-related projects, a search for AIDS drugs, an examination of the human microbium, and a study of TB.

2020-03-15 15:33:24

Eventually, I could see this being required, because how dare you not help science as much as possible you capitalist! Lol. But do we know if this new thing is accessible?

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2020-03-15 17:29:10

@Brad if you're curious about how it works, maybe this and this would help?
As for scientists having their own computers, no, not really. Supercomputers -- computers with enough processing power for these kinds of projects -- are very, very expensive. Most research teams simply cannot afford them. Meanwhile, there's a billion PCs in the world, most of which are not being used all the time. So they realized that all these computers that would normally just wait around while not being used could instead help out by completing tasks. In addition, being able to help out with scientific research will get more people interested in science, which is always a good thing. smile
For more reasons to why scientists don't just use their own computers, check out the last question on Folding At Home's FAQ.

@devinprater, that's not going to happen and you know it. Is it truly necessary to make up such conspiracies to make scientists seem like villains? Also, isn't helping someone out of the kindness of your heart, not for money, the exact opposite of capitalism?
And yes, it is accessible. Don't you think that if it wasn't, there wouldn't be all these VI people recommending it?

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2020-03-15 17:47:58

I saw this on Reddit last week, but I wasn’t sure if it was legitimate  or not. I might have to check this out.

2020-03-15 18:07:29 (edited by Rastislav Kish 2020-03-15 18:09:37)

Hi there,
I can recommend Boinc as well. It's a nice program. Selecting a project is as easy as adding it from a list of available projects. Then you can track in real time, what kind of tasks is your computer currently processing. It downloads few from each project, some of them get the computing status, others wait until their time comes. After a task is finished, it is set to wait to be returned to the server. During the computing, you can see percentage of completion for each task, as well as get informations about the estimated remaining time required to finish it.
Plus there are various configuration options such as how many % of your computing power should be used in total, whether to pause computations when you use your cpu heavily, or whether to use gpu as well or not.

There are various kinds of available projects. During my time, my computer was solving for example the LHC project, aimed to help to renew Large Hadron Collider in cern, Enigma m4 project, which's goal was to crack three messages captured during WWII, which were said to be uncrackable, or Mind modelling project, which was created to simulate processes in human mind.

All of them are still running, although I don't really get what is m4 currently doing, as its goal was filled about 10 years ago if I remember right.

Best regards

Rastislav

2020-03-15 20:39:13

Hi.


I read the pages but I'm still confused. How does lending my computers power help out research?


If I want to research something I go on the internet and type in what I'm looking for and look it up, one computer can do that; so why does this program need so many?


I think i'm going to need a super simple explonation for this one.

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2020-03-15 21:52:26

Ok here is my explanation, as I understand this.
For example, trying to research the cure for cancer needs alot of computer power for calculations and what ever else and for sure, you can't do it with a single computer and super computers, the ones who can do this are super expensive, even for scientists.
So from all of our computers, they use the power to simulate a super computer and do this job.
Hope I am clear and I hope that I understood it correctly.

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2020-03-15 21:55:09

Hi @angel, thanks for your explonation.


I'm adding more projects and have found that the advanced view, I think it's called, works a lot better as a user on this forum said.


I may not fully understand this program but if I can help, why not?

I'm gone for real :)

2020-03-15 22:15:27 (edited by brad 2020-03-15 22:34:14)

Hi.


I can't seam to open the program now I've restarted my computer, I've gone into the folder but if I press enter on BOINC.exe, it brings up a command line then closes, can anyone help?


I've tried pressing enter on the computing and network is enabled button but that doesn't seam to do anything.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-03-15 22:20:02 (edited by defender 2020-03-15 22:23:12)

basically Brad, the program downloads A small section of the data that has been collected for use in a project, for example historic temperature, Wind speed, and pressure changes measured four times a day over the period of 3 months in A 100 mi.² region of the Mojave desert collected by a weather satellite two years ago for climate research purposes.
You can't see the data, because it is encrypted to insure it cannot be changed Buy a user, but imagine it as a table of values. you will not know exactly what they are trying to understand about this piece of data, but it could be for instance (calculating the average between all the data points) or maybe comparing them to another table of data to look for a pattern over time.
at the same time as your computer is doing this, a few other people across the globe have the same data as you, and once you are all done calculating the result, your answers are compared to make sure they match and that no data tampering or errors occurred.
Normally this is the kind of thing that a super computer could do, but since those are expensive and time with them is limited, this is a good way to simulate one. and maybe a year down the road when the data is all calculated, it can act as supporting evidence to help scientists writing a paper that proposes what we can do to reduce the impact on The unique ecosystem of the Mojave from the effects of global warming in the areas it is most damaging.

2020-03-15 22:27:52

Hi.

@defender, ok but how does the computer do the calculating when I don't have software to check those two peaces of data match in the different tables?


Oh and how do I get the program back? I can hear my fan but can't see the program on my screen after restarting my computer.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-03-15 22:46:48 (edited by defender 2020-03-15 22:49:10)

I assume said software is included in the guts of the program, but it isn't something meant to be used by user, so it's going to be very bare-bones and deeply integrated, Plus the data itself may not even be in a human readable format but rather Rob values meant to be interpreted by a machine and then later interpolated into a more recognizable set of values once a conclusion has been reached.
As for getting back into the client, try hitting enter on it's desktop icon a couple times, and if that does not work, try finding it in the system tray and either hitting enter, or using the applications key to bring up a sub menu of options.

2020-03-15 23:02:35

Hi.


@defender: thanks; I uninstalled it and am going to reinstal the program.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-03-15 23:12:52

Hi.


I uninstalled the program, reinstalled it and had to right click a lot on the icon to have the BOINC manager show up.

When I restart my computer again; I'll just leave it running in the background.


I'll uninstall it in a week or so, my computer isn't powerful and is loud when the fans are running but it's nice to help out and when I get my nokia android phone in a week, i'll probably end up putting it on there if it exists for android, and forgetting about it.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-03-16 06:51:50

Are there any companies that pay enough for renting a cpu to compensate for the power loss? Helping science is good but power is expensive.

2020-03-16 17:55:11

there may be programs that pay for usage, but I just didn't bother checking. For one reason really: the whole crisis is already bad enough, and rather than bee the demanding party, i'll just donate for once, it's a small thing, but at least it's something.

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