It’s very complicated, but there are a lot more than just two genders. Some people just can’t exclusively relate to either gender. I was in a relationship with a bigender person for a long time so I can understand at least some of the emotional side of it.

What I don't understand, is how bie, gay and lesbian are listed as genders. Those are sexualities. If you are lesbian, you are a female, who likes females! If you are bie, you like both males and females, etc.

I do understand wanting to have autonomy over your bodies, but when you shove it on other people and complain when we don't understand is when it gets rediculous. E.G. I have heard that it is a possibility, or might already be a thing, that on Twitter, if you misgender someone you can get fined. How rediculous is that? You can not be held acountable for what one person appears to you as. Also, what happened to freedom of speech? Nowadays you can't say anything like this without severe backlash.

This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic, but I'm using it as an example.
Just yesterday there was a women's rights march. Now first of all, what rights do women not have? Women get treated better then men in most cases. Anyway, there were a couple of peacible groups that tried to talk to the march, to explain why they were wrong. The feminists met this with thrown objects, injuring several of the aposing group. This is assault, and you know how some of those people are, some of it was probably assault with intent to kill, or agrivated assault, or whatever. Point is that people seriously need to lighten up on this stuff.
Your free to believe what you want, but do not force it on people.

Thank you for your time.

@jimmy, and now this is where I stop having any doubts about your intentions. It doesn't matter what you and your little troditionalist mind think, gender is a social construct, nothing more nothing less. The idea that gender is binary has already been debunked over the decades. Do your homework and come back again. Thanks for playing.
@179, I do agree with you that bi / gay / whatever else being listed as genders is pretty stupid. Just understand that being trans doesn't automatically make you gay or lesbian, nore are they one in the same. Also, misgendering someone, if done intentionally that is, is a dick move no matter what you think. If you see someone random on the street and refer to them as male because you don't know them but it turns out they identify as female, you shouldn't be at falt so long as you can recognise your mistake. If you refuse to refer to someone with their chosen pronouns / name however, assuming you can actually get fined for doing that, it seems pretty fair to me. Small price to pay for the damage you're inflicting on to that person's mental health.

Hi all! I've been following this topic since the beginning, but didn't write anything because... Well, because I don't know any trans and so I didn't have anything constructive to add to the discussion. However, I now have a question about gender. If, and I agree, if gender is a social construct, how useful is to identify ourselves as cisgender, transgender etc. I mean, how useful is to keep the word gender in this context, when the thing here I think should be getting rid of the concept of gender altogether in favor of being just yourself? And, for people who identify themselves as genderfluid or bigender: how can you identify in more than one gender, if gender is something that doesn't exist as a real thing but is just a construct?
Thanks for whoever will answer me, I've always been very interested in sexuality and genders and whatever is usually thrown in the mix. I'm curious by nature, and I want to understand others so to understand also why other people don't understand them and, maybe, try to change their minds. For me, I'm a... Well, don't know the world in english, i guess polilover? Well, I don't believe in monogamy and, even if that's very very different from being trans, gay or whatever, it's still seen badly by most people in my country, so I can understand that we need to change things.

OK, debated whether or not to say this, but I've about had it.

To those of you who outright disagree with Haily and other LGBTQIA folks on this thread, and to those of you cloaking your disagreement under the vineer of wanting to learn and getting butthurt when you're called on it, why are you here? What's the endgame? Is your hope that Haily will up and say "Well golly-fuckedy-gee, someone on the internet doesn't agree with me. I guess I should put this whole transition thing on the back burner and choose to be heteronormative like all the straight white folks say I should."

To be clear, there are people in this thread genuinely trying to learn. This isn't aimed at you. And if by some miracle you *are* genuinely trying to learn, insisting on things you know being facts really comes off as you pushing an agenda, and part of learning involves humility. But if Haily's presence and needs bothered me so much (neither does, BTW) I could ignore this thread completely and continue functioning perfectly well. I'd go to work, pay my rent, get groceries. THe world wouldn't end and life would continue as usual, Chinese death plague and maniacle orange man in the White House not withstanding. No one's going to fine you for misgendering someone, despite what some random internet conspiracist or FOx news pundet would have you believe.

If you're here subtly or not-so-subtly pushing an agenda that your way is the right way, then a good long look at your life choices may be in order. If it makes you uncomfortable that people who aren't like you exist, well, the people who aren't like you have felt uncomfortable pretending they *are* like you for a long while now, so try and have a little empathy. If your goal is to feel comfortable at the expense of making others on the internet conform to your life choices, then you're a pretty selfish person, and I for one won't put any effort into either making you comfortable or engaging with bad-faith efforts to "learn."

Haily, I hope you've found some good support apart from the haters. Sorry that people on the internet can't just read someone's personal perspectives with which they disagree and just keep their damned mouths shut.

Jimmy, Thumbs up.
Anyway, the joke about intent to kill was that, a joke, but I see how you could read it as not so with such a touchy topic.

So, I can only speak for myself on being bigender. Everyone's experience is different. For me, I feel like I am both male and female, usually at the same time. I have really bad body dysphoria, but that I will not be discussing in public because it relates to my body and well, that's not something I want in a public forum. Its basically that I feel like my brain is almost devided, not just right and left, but between the way a male brain is, and the way a female brain is. Whether it actually is or not, that's what it feels like. Inerestingly enough, when I take the SAGE test, I end up getting different results each time, not that that means anything, just something I find interesting. Being biggender doesn't usually mean though that you feel two genders at once. More commonly, its one, then another time another.

@183 I hope its okay, the English word is polyamorous. As for gender being a social construct, I do agree that it is, and that it probably shouldn't be used, bbut I think that its something we use to feel like we fit in somewhere. For example, if you can't see you say that you are blind, and that puts you in a community of people like you. It's something that we use to maybe validate our experience, and find others like us. If you are female, then you have a community of other females like you. Same if you are male. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing that it is a social construct.

Jimmy69, please stop insisting that there are only two genders. Your desire to force this point has made me pretty sure of your intentions. Nolan got here and nailed it before I could, so thank you, Nolan, for hitting the nail straight on. You're entitled to believe what you want, we can't stop you doing that, but coming in here to debate that is doing no good and may in fact be doing harm. Haily becoming upset with you constitutes as harm. If you persist in this, I'll have to put my staff hat on, and I don't want to do that if I don't have to.

DyingMoose93, your bias is showing, too, I'm afraid. Not to mention ignorance.
For one thing, sexual preference and gender identity are two very different things. I can be heterosexual and bigender, or I can be bisexual and cisgender. One refers to the people we're attracted to; the other refers to the gender with which we identify.
Next, your comments on women definitely betray a pretty strong anti-feminist bias. Again, you're free to hold such a repulsive stance if you want, but it would be nice if you held beliefs based on demonstrable facts. I will agree with you that throwing things at a demonstration is absolutely -not the way to go. However, your desire to judge most or all women based on this act is just self-serving. Are there women out there that are horrible people? Abso-freaking-lutely yes. Men too. And bigender, and agender, and all the rest. They're out there. But as for why they were marching in the first place, I ask you this. If women have just as much rights as men, why is sexual assault so common? Why does the wage gap still exist, even if it's definitely been shrinking? Why is the first question when a woman is raped often something along the lines of "what were you wearing"? Why is it that in many (although by no means all) circumstances, women are questioned by police more rigorously than men before they are believed? Why are women still fighting for and afraid of their reproductive rights? Why do women in some parts of the world lack the ability to make decisions on their own? Why in some places can men initiate a divorce while women cannot? And, the cherry on top: can you give examples for all of the above where men actually get the short end of the stick? If you can, have on, but if you can't, I urge you to do a little bit more research and self-reflection. Because here's the thing. It's easy to think women have it great when you hear about someone winning a sexual harassment suit, or aborting a fetus, or getting custody in a legal battle where perhaps they shouldn't have (yes, that is still a problem, albeit a shrinking one). It's easy to think "well, they're fine", or, as you appear to have done, to go an extra step and say "Wow, look at that. They've got more than we do!". It's not accurate, however.
Last, I want to hit on the fines thing. You're taking this way, way out of context. If you misgender someone by mistake, no one is going to fine you or harass you. Sometimes it's really difficult to know (trust me, I've misgendered someone straight up before). Instead, that quote is misconstrued by fans of Jordan Peterson and his ilk because they're trying to make it into a free-speech thing when it isn't. As far as I'm aware, that quote and that reference refer to people in paid positions who willingly misgender someone. If you are, say, a professor and you have a student who identifies as female but her name on her birth certificate is Peter and she looks stereotypically male, you'd be potentially in trouble if you continuously referred to her as "Peter" and "he" and "him" even after being asked not to do so. And as far as I'm concerned, if you get fined for that or even reprimanded more seriously, you've got it coming. How hard is it to just call people what they wish, and to refer to them by the appropriate gender? Nah, your average citizen has nothing to fear, and in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, a transgender/non-CIS person who is unintentionally misgendered will set you straight or say nothing at all rather than raise hell. If they do raise hell and you had no way of knowing that what you were doing was wrong beforehand, then there's not much that can be done. I urge you not to judge the many by the few, in this or anywhere else. The man I misgendered as female (due to his size and his voice, he was helping to guide me at the time) just set me straight. I apologized, and his exact words were, "nothing to apologize for. There was no way you could know. I get it a lot and I don't mind it as long as people are doing it by accident." Just think about that.

Generally, I'm going to support Nolan's point here.
If you are genuinely here to learn, and you happen to ask a question in a way that ruffles a feather or two but you don't mean harm, it should be pretty easy to tell that, and I wager that most people here are pretty forgiving of such things. Not knowing a thing is nothing to be crucified for, after all, and a desire to learn is commendable. However, if you're pretending to do this just so you can repeat the same stance as a means of excluding people or weaponizing their choices, I'm going to come down on that pretty unfavourably. My advice? Quit while you're reasonably scot-free and re-evaluate your choices, if not your beliefs.

Yeah but when I see people saying patently wrong things, like there’s more than two genders, that  upsets me. Now I know you’re probably just going to say that it doesn’t matter if I get upset, but we have to preserve the feelings of all the little boys and girls. People are so fucking sensitive I hate it
  You Say that it upsets Haley, well the shit they’re saying upsets me. Obviously, because I’m a straight white male my feelings don’t mean shit. Or at least that’s what it seems like from some of your guises posTs, But I think if Haley is allowed to express her views I should be allowed to express mine

Okay. I am going to post this, and if I get a warning, well that is fine.

I believe there are two genders. Notice, I wrote "I believe." I didn't say that you should believe there are two genders. If someone is offended by that, then that is their problem. I don't have to agree with someone's gender choices to respect them.

Honestly, I hope Haily gets whatever she needs to make her happy. I might not agree with it, but as long as her choices don't endanger anyone or cause harm to others, I do not care what gender she becomes. It is her life; she can live it however she wants to.

Jimmy69, I imagine you're probably feeling a little bit shut out right now. I don't blame you if you do feel that way. My suggestion, though, is to learn to live with it.

As a fellow straight white male, myself, I am cognizant of the hell we've put pretty much everyone else through as a group (as individuals, most of us are fairly harmless). This also means I've become aware that sometimes, our opinions are not only unwanted, but harmful. Again, no one's saying you can't believe what you wish, but in this specific arena, you have to come to grips with the fact that no, your opinion is not equal here, and as such, you don't have the right to just smear it everywhere. If you do it, you risk harm. You argue that by Haily and others being free to say what they're saying, that upsets you, and you further suggest that you being upset is equal to them being upset. In an everyday scuffle that's not related to privilege and oppression, I'd agree with you. In this instance, no, I don't. If you are that upset, no one is forcing you to read this thread. Walk away. Go do something that makes you happy. You are not going to change anyone's mind by posting that Haily and Daigonite are writing "patently wrong things". You are not going to affect any positive change, and so I must conclude that you're doing so either 1. in order to put those people down or 2. to make yourself feel better. If it's the latter, you're doing so at the expense of other people, and that's just not cool.

So, a quick little anecdote for you. When I was seventeen, I was definitely a bit more of a jerk than I am now. I hate to admit it, but it's true. I had a girlfriend. Looking back, I don't know if it was ever gonna work long-term, but she was very sweet and quite supportive, and we got along well. Thing is, she liked chick flicks and pop music (she's since largely outgrown both, we're still in touch). Anyway, I would often deride the things she liked, not because I was trying to be an ass but just because I didn't like them. She'd talk about some new song she heard, and I'd say something like, "Good lord, it's full of autotuned" or "ah, another money-making scheme". And eventually she got sick of it and blew up in my face. You know what? I spent five minutes being outraged that she got upset by me expressing my opinion, and then I nearly fell apart when I realized the effect I was having on her. She was taking my criticism of the music as indirect criticism of her preferences and even her lifestyle. She was sixteen at the time. It was horribly demeaning and undercut her self-confidence in a way that I'd never have done if I'd really sat down and thought about it.
So why do I tell this story? Because right now, you're the person who walks into a place and just decides to have his say for its own sake. Right now, you're acting the way I did twenty years ago, more or less. Trust me, bro, it doesn't work. It just upsets people, makes them feel like you're picking on them. Because even if you really hate that song, or really find it bothersome that people insist on two genders, no one is making you partake of the music or the discussion or whatever else. Bow out. You aren't gonna change minds this way.

Okay, going to probably get controversial but, by definition, yes, there are technically two genders. But there are many other gender identities. By the simple fact that the term is nonbinary tells me that you are not of one of the two genders. Agender is a lack of gender, meaning, no gender. Bigender is two genders. Genderfluid is moving between two genders. I could be interpreting things wrong, but even as someone who doesn't identify as cis, I see two genders, with different identities off that.