2020-01-22 18:33:03

Please help me understand something.
We normally note our own warnings and whatnot. This is not ironclad, but it happens far more than it doesn't. It's not a rule and it's not part of protocol, but generally it's what we do.
With that having been said, why am I being asked about the warnings Carter administered? Why is this question not being posed to Carter?

The point that Nocturnis is trying to make is not that we can't be called out if we slip. We can and should endeavour to be professional and thorough in our dealings with members where punishments and the like are concerned. But consider this.

Nuno wrote:
@Jayde, why the warning Xoren got has not been written to the official log? Is Karter following a different, better set of rules than any other mod?

You know this isn't the case. You know that Carter just hasn't written down his warning yet. Why cite a "different, better set of rules"? That just makes you look snide. Whereas...

Polite person wrote:
Just an FYI, but the punishment thread hasn't been updated with the two warnings from yesterday. Not sure if you forgot or if there's some other reason.

See the difference? The former is just needlessly antagonistic (and Deathstar, once again, you're not helping), while the latter is simply informative.

I will never, ever object if you simply point out someplace where I or someone else has made a mistake or has yet to follow through on something. As Nocturnis also said, we're human. Sometimes we miss things. However, dealing with insinuations and needlessly antagonistic commentary isn't cool. Also, speaking personally here, being singled out for something, being asked a question that is frankly not my business directly, isn't cool either. If you want to know why Carter didn't update that punishment thread, try asking Carter. Me, I think he just forgot, and I don't want to step on his toes by writing it in for him.

One last thing, real quick. Deathstar, you cite this as a common mistake. Hate to burst your bubble, but it's not. Most warnings, bans and other punishments are reported in that punishment thread. A few have not been reported immediately, but I would say that, on average, eight or nine in ten punishments were reported in timely fashion. Please do not characterize the occasional issue as a common mistake.

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2020-01-22 18:43:46 (edited by Ethin 2020-01-22 18:44:13)

@125, gotta say that your lucky your antagonistic posts towards the mods haven't been taken as character assassination. I think some of them approached that line, multiple times, if not crossed it. Back off and leave the mods alone. If you want something to be done, let them do it. Needlessly houdning them for no reason other than spite is going to cause them to *get nothing done*. I shouldn't even have to write this, but alas...

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2020-01-22 18:46:15

Exactly.  I would have probably PM'ed Carter myself or gotten in touch with him by some other means were I a mod and asked to do him the favor unless he was going to do it himself.  What's more?  I'm sure if the question had been asked as Jayde pointed out in a nice fashion rather than with the sarcastic tone it conveyed, he, meaning Jayde, might have taken the initiative to ask Carter himself!  Not to bring up bad apples but there was an incident not too long ago where I disclosed someone's real name thinking it wasn't an issue given it had been posted elsewhere on the forum and within emails and such.  Said person and another forum member came forth in that topic and politely asked that the issue be looked into.  Jayde contacted me privately about the situation and while the incident was an oversight on my part and there was nothing to be served by my editing my post the issue was resolved as smoothly and effectively as possible given the circumstances.  That's called proper communication; it does not require snarky nonsense.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-01-22 18:51:26

What went wrong in this forum. Why is it so shit these days.
Why there's so much bullying and abuse going on? and why do parents give unrestricted internet access to their 10 year old kids?
The forums used to be much more better. Older users were more patient with younger ones, Users did not insult admins or made passive aggressive comments towards them for whatever reason, and mods were helpers instead of enforcers, throwing the word "punish" every time something went south.

"I don't see how having a guide horse will affect my neighbors."
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2020-01-22 19:21:10

Honestly I think deathstar should have been banned a long time ago. She does nothing but ster the pot to see what happens. I think this is where the community failure claws will come in handy.

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2020-01-22 19:24:02

Why is there such a fuss about the warnings topic/updating it? You know you can use the search feature and just type "moderation" and then see all the warnings, cautions and bans ever handed down on this forum? To me that topic just seems like extra effort and if a mod doesn't update it instantly the pitchforks come out.

Brendan
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2020-01-22 19:53:56

@129 I'll put my own opinion up here in answer to your question, but to say I definitively know how to fix the issue would be rather arrogant.
The forum has expanded a ton since its birth.  More people?  More opinions.  More active users spouting out their opinions.  More chances at dramafests.  More moderation decisions to be handed out, meaning more mods were required to hand them out.  YOu say you remember the old days?  When I first joined up in 2009 there were mostly only two guys moderating the whole of the forum.  Dark felt it was a bit much for just the two of them and thus began searching for other possible candidates that would, if not be able to agree with him on most factors would at the very least express them self intelligently and reasonably enough to merrit discussions concerning moderation decisions.  Myself, Arqmeister, Sebbi and others were approached and recruited after careful consideration.  Some of us had contributed help on various topics and done so eloquently, while others had put forth other helpful material in the form of audio tutorials and playthroughs and the like.  Some of us had done these things and more that I just won't mention for the sake of  keeping this as short as possible.
Interestingly enough it was as I was coming in the door that previous mod, DB  editor and news writer cx2 decided the responsibility had become too much for him and relinquished his place on the panel, which is sad as I think he could have provided a solid front for us all given his already having been established for awhile.  Either way, we did our best with what we had at the time and picked up a few faces along the way.  Fastforward to 2014.  This topic and others that sprung up around the same time, plus a few other things that were going on in my life including hearing loss made me wonder/question if I just wasn't fit to the task of moderating.  I told Dark then what I'm putting out here now, which is that overall I felt like the forum was becoming a little more aggressive than I cared to believe it should be and that I honestly didn't want to be suckered into it and do more harm than good in the process.  I felt that annonymity was driving users to greater trollish heights.
While Dark did his best to tell me that this was the kind of thing he believed just came and went in phases and that he was not concerned because he'd seen it before I took my leave all the same.  The next two years were rather hard for me but I did them anyway, and, thanks to my wife, I was motivated to join the moderation panel yet again.  We both learned a lot thanks to this site and wanted to try and contribute to it as much as we could together.
Sadly, around the time I rejoined the moderation panel was involved in a rather controversial mess; you can read my research paper of sorts on it here,  Hasty decisions were made and many of us were left with bad tastes in our mouthes.  To this day I'm still not sure who lost the most out of that horrid mess but I know that nothing was ever the same after that fiasco.  I'm not going to point a finger at anyone in particular on this one because I've had a ton of time to reflect upon this situation and strongly believe we're all collectively to blame as a community, for letting annonymity make us feel untouchable because that's what we see on social networking platforms, for having allowed toxic content to run rampant for as long as it did and not punishing those who started it, for not having communicated more effectively, for not really looking for solutions but instead fueling fires and pointing at one another as the source of the problem.  We were more interested in playing a blame game that probably never should have been rather than sitting back and taking a collective breather that would have allowed us all to keep the community as it was or, better yet, to further its progress.
So yes... I believe mods and forumites alike are responsible.  I don't believe one did any better than the other.  My investigative piece probably did a great deal of putting the pieces together for the sake of transparency, but what it did not do and the one thing I regret for sure and kick my tail for almost every single time I visit this forum now, is restore order to chaos, which is seriously what I wanted most.  The current moderation panel is trying to do its best, but it has three years of harm to undo... Perhaps more that I'm not even aware of.  During my time we dealt with everything from fielding questions on cloning operations, why games didn't end up on the database, why steam didn't seem like a matter worth considering on the site, and many other things beside.  Today the mods are harshly tasked by individuals because rules don't seem stable and or have to quickly evolve to keep up with the new-comers and oldtimers alike.
At the core of my beeing though I still believe in this community and its longest standing members.  I believe many of us still try to make it work.  I believe there are also newcomers who are doing their best, but as I've said elsewhere we need to take all of the age ranges into consideration.  To be honest, that in itself almost makes it miraculous that we can all even so much as hold civil interaction on here.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-01-22 20:53:30

@126, I asked YOU because YOU are a boss here as far as I know. Maybe I am not the most polite person on earth which can come because of different things, the main one being me not being a native english speaker, and the second one is that I don't necessarily consider my behavior as bad.

If you want to contact me, do not use the forum PM. I respond once a year or two, when I need to write a PM myself. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Telegram: Nuno69a
E-Mail: nuno69a (at) gmail (dot) com

2020-01-22 21:02:44

Christian, let me be honest. This is likely going to sound harsh, but I'd really like to make this clear, like, right now.
On STW, you were recently banned from the game due to your disrespect towards a lot of us who play. If you wanted help, we'd try to provide you help, but you'd come back at uwith snide criticism or unnecessary sassiness, which is just totally inappropriate. I gave you, oh I don't even know anymore, over 4 chances to try and help you, but you decided you should go impersonate me on one of your clones, which really crossed the line.
Then you come on here and claim you're proud of ruining Liam's stream, as if it was like, "oh, I just won 3 frickin' trophies, yee haw suckas." I don't know what you're trying to do, bj because you're 12 years old does not mean you have the right to do this (excuse my language) shit. You know better, grow up please.

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2020-01-22 21:05:40

Sorry to doubl post, but Liam and Death, would you mind passing me that bowl of popcorn please? Thanks. smile

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Discord: @tunmi13#1880

2020-01-22 22:06:41

1. Jayde is not the boss. Look at our profile's and you'll see the same shining rank.
2. As was suspected by Nocturnus and Jayde, I had planned to, but discussions on list plus life simply caused me to forget. I have always, up to this point, remembered to write down punishments I hand out in the topic, if not in their own post I edit the first one. You are more than welcome to take the time and prove me wrong if you like, knock yourself out.
3. If I were following my own set of rules and wishes, far less fair, many members posting in this topic would no longer be here. Instead we, as a team, try and do our part to make this forum a better place by adhering to protocol you and everyone else mutually agreed upon. Don't like it? Take your concerns up with me privately. I personally see us as pretty reasonable considering all we're required to deal out. It isn't an easy job, nor is it fun. We all signed up because we genuinely care about the community, not because we enjoy it or are drunk with power and the desire to go rogue.

This may indeed be a matter of sarcasm distorted by the language barrier, but that doesn't change the way it came across to us. Please be more cognizant in the future.

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2020-01-22 23:51:52

@136 yeah sure factually correct. Doesn't change the fact that my dad holds more power than me ... even though we both bare the same title of adult.
This isn't even trying to stur the pot or throw shade at Jayde, I'm just stating the obvious.

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2020-01-23 00:39:09

That...doesn't even make sense, Lord Lundin. Are you saying that I somehow have more rank because I'm older? Does Nuno even know how old each of us is?

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-01-23 00:46:44

I think you're perceived that way because you're generally more upfront about things and you've dropped the hammer more than other people have.

A winner is you!
—Urban Champion

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2020-01-23 01:06:10

That doesn't make any logical sense though. Jayde, Cartertem... both of these two have the same privileges. Just because one does more than the other in no way means that that person somehow holds more authority than the others who are more "in the background".

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

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2020-01-23 01:24:56

Nocturnus, the example you gave of solving a forum conflict was a good one. Since I was the other party involved, I'll just say that it was much more of a blunder on my part than yours. Once it was pointed out that I had, in fact, said my real name on here before, which I had legitimately forgotten about, I apologized, and there were no hard feelings, at least from my side. I could have, in hindsight, messaged the mods privately about it, though I thought that would only stir up more flames given the unrest within the team at the time. Had that situation happened now that things are a bit more stable, I would have done just that.

What I would not have done, then or now, is constantly antagonize anyone, no matter their rank, just because I can. In the grand scheme of things, my grievance was pretty minor anyway, so to do so, and to hold a grudge about it, would have been ridiculous. I hope some of the newer members read that topic you linked to and took the way it was handled to heart, at least.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

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2020-01-23 02:23:59

All admins hold the same amount of power.
Thank you.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

Check out my live streams: http://lerven.me
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2020-01-23 02:56:42 (edited by Nocturnus 2020-01-23 03:01:16)

@turtlepower I'm glad you approve.  It honestly was one of the greater moments of my being out here on the forum, particularly since I do liked to resolve issues if and when they arise and hate to have any unfinished business or hard feelings.  NO matter who we are, where we are or where we want to be and where we're going in life, in spite of the fact that this is the internet of things and you can just turn it all off when it's all too overwhelming I still do my absolute best to treat people as people because they're people.  To not have offered an apology on my part would have been a jerkwad move regardless if you honestly commited said blunder or not; I know I'd feel the same way if the shoe were on the other foot.
For me it was more about how you personally felt about the situation and I felt a need to do my absolute best to resolve it as cleanly as possible.  Sadly, I must admit as I'm  pretty sure that there was a point in time when my pride would have gotten in the way of my making or even trying to make the right decision because I wouldn't have honestly seen myself as having done anything wrong.  I'm glad this was not the case; I just wish others would start walking the extra mile...
I knew I had it bad when I was at a party and was asked by one of the wonderful, elderly ladies who was there if I wanted more food.  I had already eaten quite a bit as it was.  In snarky sarcastic, satirical me joking fashion I perked up and asked, "What, do I look like I'm hungry?"  I learned after the party that she had taken the comment rather hurtfully even though I had meant it as a joke.  My initial reaction was, but I joke like that with all my friends!  She needs to freaking lighten up!  The blazes is her problem!  In the end, I apologized because the question wasn't one about whether what I said was even right or wrong, but one of having hurt someone else.  It's called humility and I wish I knew how to exercise it more effectively, though I do try my best.  This story in particular though taught me many nasty things about how humankind works; so often we're more interested in being right than being thoughtful and compassionate.
I can honestly say that it would have been super easy to just look the other way where the situation on the forum with you on that topic was concerned, but am sincerely super glad I didn't.  It cost me only the time it took to say I'm sorry but was well worth the effort and as we can all with an ounce of common sense see, resulted in a rewarding experience for all parties involved, as we are able to mutually and warmly discuss this matter.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-01-23 10:32:24

I didn't  even look at your rangs. Something just rang my bell that Jayde is the boss. If not, then I am sorry for misinformation.

If you want to contact me, do not use the forum PM. I respond once a year or two, when I need to write a PM myself. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Telegram: Nuno69a
E-Mail: nuno69a (at) gmail (dot) com

2020-01-23 11:56:19

Yes, all of you have the same amount of power. That's when the moderator rank totally loses its' strength and respect. My question is the following: why do all of you want to be leaders, if you can moderate with even a so called simple rank, moderator? Why do all of you need the higher rank if not only to show what a huge power you have on here?

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2020-01-23 12:22:48

@145 Wow. You must have a wonderful life if you can make a problem out of this. If every mod is an administrator, the moderator status becomes obsolete. What is the big deal with reading the word administrator instead of moderator. There is absolutely not one single disadvantage for you or anybody else.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

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2020-01-23 12:49:08

I have no problem with it. You misunderstood me. But as far as we all know, admins have more rights than moderators, the hell knows what they can check. So it must have some reasons why everyone of them needed that only rank.

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2020-01-23 13:27:24

As far as i know, the only difference between moderators and admins is that admins are able to unlock new users while moderators can't.

I used to be an aventurer like you. Then I took a knee in the arrow.

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2020-01-23 14:04:59

No, there are some huge differences, but nothing that would effect the end user. I think you're coming at this from the completely wrong angle, as usual. Admins simply have that little bit more power to unrestrict users and things, plus the ability to do just about anything with the pun BB side of things. Be glad we have more people who can unrestrict new users. I'm not sure what you have against the mod team or if you just like drama so much you'll look for any opertunity to start it, I'm thinking the latter is most likely given most of your previous posts on this forum.

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2020-01-23 14:14:29

How can you not have a problem with it when you are criticicing the mod team for it. Makes no sense.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

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