2019-12-02 21:37:00 (edited by ignatriay 2019-12-02 21:45:40)

Before i ask my question, I only want to make one thing clear. I know that one is not allowed to distribute cracks in this sight. I'm not doing that. I'm just asking this for curiosities sake, ok? On with it, then. Whenever a company such as freedom scientific in this case, charges exorbitantly for a product, cracks will always come up. My question is this, how much do you think freedom scientific is losing financially wise because of the cracked jaws software out there? I mean, if one knows where to look one can find it. So, I mean, I get freedom scientific is like, a big company and everything, bu! with cracks of jaws, I only know about cracked jaws, but i'm sure other of its products are in the same hole, do cracks affect their sails or the company itself? And, by how much? I don't want this too turn into a debate of weather cracks are right or wrong, there not; ok? I, for one, don't even use jaws, i use nvda. As I said before, I'm just asking this out of Curiosity because, say, if this where to happen to a small or medium company, it would affect them greatly, probably  to the point that they might even go out of busyness, but with a large company such as freedom scientific...  Does the same thing still apply? Oh, and one more question, do you think freedom scientific is aware of the cracked software floating around out there? I mean, they probably do i would guess, but are they so well off financially that they just don't care? I mean, cracks of jaws have been around for a long, long time now, so it would make sence that if they new; which i'm assuming they do; i mean its not as if its hidden; its not; but they  are not stopping this. Why not? I mean, if if they are aware of it, they should be doing something about it;unless they have so much many they just decide, fuck it; which might very well be the case, i don't know.

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2019-12-02 21:42:52

i'M sure they dont care because people are wierd enough to spend hundreds of dollars while there are better alternativesout there

2019-12-02 21:44:15

Ill bet a decent margin. Maybe 3 percent or something. But remember big businesses and governments still pay top dollar to ensure their workforce
Good question though

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2019-12-02 21:50:38 (edited by ignatriay 2019-12-02 21:53:17)

yeah but its still costing them financially, costing them thousands of dollars in fact. Then again, not every person thinks this when searching or looking at an expencive product, can I find a crack? Thats not  how the human mind works. I mean, some people do, i'm one of those, in fact, but i only do it when i don't have any other alternative, if I can pay for a product; i will.

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2019-12-02 21:57:31

They are undoubtedly aware, and you can't ever stop piracy, it's just a money pit you throw all your cash into to try to build defenses and protections that they take down in hours. I think the loss is negligible, for the reason that the enterprise customers like companies and schools are not going to get away with using cracks and the money they spend is going to outweigh the losses from the pirated versions.

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2019-12-02 22:07:31 (edited by Exodus 2019-12-02 22:13:01)

4:
If we use the flawed argument of 1 download or crack equals 1 lost sale then it costs them thousands, but  not all pirates will continue to use what they've cracked and they won't go buy the thing either. Similarly,  other pirates will go on to buy what they've cracked. You've always got that quantity of people that will pirate everything and anything.
When it comes to an answer to a question like this, I don't ever think we'll get a clear answer It's always just random numbers pulled from the ass of some grandstanding company with an ax to grind.
I'd argue that when you're buying fucking everything, moving into spiffy new offices and have sweet... sweet... government contracts to milk that you're doing entirely fine and a few people sailing the high seas aren't hurting you anywhere near as bad as people think.

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2019-12-02 22:40:04

To be honest, not that I'm taking sides, but I wouldn't be expecting anyone no matter there needs to pay 1000 GBP for software when, as post 1 rightly said, there are better alternatives out there.
In my opinion, if anything you would expect them to at least lower the price of acquiring a licence, as you could easily just download NVDA without having to pay possibly more than your computer just to have screen narration.

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2019-12-03 03:29:00

Let me answer you in a long winded detailed way. so you can fully appreciate how much they care. there losses are not much. they, do not care. they do not care because you and me, are not there priority. there main focus is the large institutions that dictate the feature set of jaws. its the people in leadership and high positions that decides which changes FS will make. and in turn. gets funded to let FS go on the way they do. the small few that has S M ays in place that is individuals are merely the cream on the top. that's why FS does not care if you in a different country, and you want to take advantage of specials only in the US. they are so entirely self centered that they actually out right reject you as a individual client. if you are not in the US. so. based on that experience. let me assure you. they don't really care. oh do not get me wrong. if some poor blind guy with a torch on his shoulder, came to them. trying to do the right thing. came to them with a magical way to stop there app from being exploited, they'd thank him. send him on his way with a thank you. and he'd be getting nothing out of the deal. as long as large institutions does not crack JFW all is right with the world. remember this. FS does not care about you as the individual. they look down upon you. if you don't have a set amount of revenue stream for them. you are just walked all over. Fact, if FS had actually listened to individual users, JFW would have been way different, then what it is today. JFW today. symbolizes the way there makers are. over bloated. over sized. redundant with to much loose ends left undone. I hope this enlightening answer helps you. feel free to ask if anything I said here is false.

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2019-12-03 04:24:19

Ah cute, someone thinks FS makes most of their income with single purchase sales. As many people have pointed out, the main markets they make their profits from are government contracts and enterprise purchases. As well, there's the scripting scene to consider for interacting with comercial software/ creating scripts for custom private software for businesses. As well, this market is locked in, as some of the screen reader alternatives are open source, which is a no-no in sensitive-information managing institutions and businesses. Serving the single purchase is just a marketing tactic for showing they are an access company. but pricing (along with development concerns) mainly suggests the primary customer base can fling money of that constantly.

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2019-12-03 04:25:50 (edited by ignatriay 2019-12-04 00:22:37)

@8, holy shit. I knew it was bad, but not this bad. Is it me, or every big  company is like this? As long as big companies / the government keeps kissing their ass, its all fine, individuals be dammed. I can mention a few of the top of my head. Vmware, google, apple, microsoft, adobe... the list goes on; and on. Hell, with vmware fusion and vmware products. Ok, lets say you get a key using a keygen, which is not legal of course. You can then actually register; again... you, can, register the key you got using the keygen. Onto the sight. There is an actual, registore key or keys, on the sight. Just a thought, but if big companies don't givea damn about us as customers / individuals... If they get cracked; they deserve it. I used to own vmware fusion by crack, using keygen, but ended up buying it. Its really sad though, as long as big other mega corporations keep kissing their ass, its all fine, individuals be dammed, its a messed up mentality, and if that's the way they are playing? That really puts forward the question about piracy. I mean, if they don't careabout the individual, then why do we must do the same thing. Really sad though. By the way i'm not saying any of the companies or there products are bad; on the contrary; but the way they work? self centered, selfish... I could go on all day. Just wow.
@9... ah cute, it seems i'm in the presence of a smartass! Not everyone has the same knowledge you have, pal. Keep that in mind. If I was assuming that companies make their sails baced on Single purchaces... There's a better way to let me know  than beeing sarcastic like  you did.

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2019-12-03 07:12:04 (edited by flyby chow 2019-12-03 07:17:57)

@ post 10. they've gotten worse through the years yes. many companies are okay to deal with. but FS is not good at all. When you speak to them out a individuals perspective you get given the boot. the moment you speak in the copacity of a business, guess what. that same individual now gets treated so sweetly.  It is sad, honestly it is. While they would love to rake in the few thousands they'd lose on revenue, they'd much rather keep the huge lions in check. to milk them. as for them  to try and chase the small little fish. Please do not get me wrong. Cracking there software is by no means the right thing to do. so answering the posters question is what i'd trie to do. In my opinion cracking the software is not even worth the time because the 40 minute demo already shows the horrible way it has degraded through the years. this topic is not about listing the reasons why this is so. so I only gave a general answer.  Please believe me when I say. I ay come over as hugely negative towards the software. This is not my intention. If anything, my intention is to point out the bad, so every one can be informed and for as long as the voices keep on talking. and not shutting up. and still telling them what is wrong. We are doing the right thing. would they listen? that remains to be seen. We can only hope.

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2019-12-03 07:16:31

I agree with post 8, I've been trying to explain this to people for a while now.

2019-12-03 13:09:25

I think freedem don't loos anything, because moestly, the crackers are from where that they can't buy the jaws

2019-12-03 17:01:53

Hello,
I think they lose a small portion, which doesn't affect their profits so they don't take active precautions.

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2019-12-03 17:44:36

Oh no no no. They do care. they abselutely do. each update that JFW brings out has extra protection against the latest cracks. they are trying hard to circumvent the crackers, then the crackers crack the crack that could not be cracked that was fixed from cracking. And so on and so forth. Oh no, don't lose site of the fact that they are trying very hard to secure there software. and its the right thing of them to do. the only thing was they got in to a fix, due to there zeal of being to hard on authentic users of the software, they had to rework their authorisation strategy a bit

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2019-12-03 21:18:13 (edited by ignatriay 2019-12-03 21:29:10)

that's ironic. I mean, they care about patching cracks, but they don't care about their customers / individuals? I mean, its right that they patch the cracks, however, if they cared about their customers and individuals and not just of leaching every single scent they can out of big companies / the government as they currently do;  I'm sure the cracks would be far, far less. Its frankly disgusting though. It shouldn't be, fix the software first, then customers. It should be customers first, then fix the software. In a way, they themselves have dug their own grave by not caring about customers or individuals. They made their bed; now, they must lye in it. Hell, they should add this to their mission statement or vision; our vision is to help people by sucking them dry of all their money, unless they are megga corporations. We help individuals but at a price, and if they cant pay, then... good luck finding your way if you cant pay us. Also, unless your in the US, forget it. Your on your own. Lol.

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2019-12-03 21:42:39

Yes I also find it ironic that they are spending all this money on trying to protect each new version when they could just be offering a better payment plan for individuals, even if it was only within English speaking countries at first.
I would estimate that they are probably losing between a quarter and half a million in sales from individuals at least, within the countries they sell to, but that's a very loose guess.
So it isn't nothing, but it's also probably less than the CEO's year end bonus.
As Manamon Player mentioned though, the rest of the people cracking surely wouldn't have been able to pay anyway even if they wanted to, so it's hard to call that an actual loss, although if you tallied it up, I imagine it would be several million dollars.
Now if they got their shit together and started figuring out a way to sell to those people, or at least the organizations in their countries that may be able to pay at a highly reduced price, than they could rake in a decent amount of extra cash up front even if update licenses would be few and far between.
I guess they just don't care enough?  Or maybe the component licensing costs they have to pay on each copy for things like OCR and voices are prohibitive?  But I don't see why they couldn't just sell a stripped down copy...
Honestly, I think they know that ship has sailed and that NVDA now takes up that potential market share they could have had if they would have bothered, so they are just letting it be when it comes to developing countries.
That's why they started up the annual plan, because they saw that they could still make money from developed countries and get a stable revenue stream out of it, but they are being slow in rolling it out to Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ ETC.

2019-12-03 22:05:45 (edited by ignatriay 2019-12-03 22:57:12)

As i said before. Too little; too late at this point. Their fuck up has been of such monumental proportions by beeing self centered and only caring about money, not their customers, that at this point; its a last, ditch; and vain; effort to get as much money as they can before they are gone for good. Their days are numbered and they know it; they have been for some time now. Its sad to see people fall do to beeing corrupted by money or power. They start off with a  good, noble intent, but once money or power gets to  their head... that once noble intent gets thrown out the window. How the mighty fall; indeed!

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2019-12-03 22:38:46

Annual plan for developing countries which is available only in US? Yep, that's the way you do it for sure.

2019-12-04 00:53:23 (edited by defender 2019-12-04 00:54:45)

I don't really see them going away soon given that they sell so many other products aside from just JAWS, but I agree with everything else said.
They failed to follow business 101 by putting all their eggs in one basket when it came to JAWS and Zoom, and they are now reaping the rewards.

2019-12-06 13:16:03

As many others have said before me, I don't think FS cares that much about cracks. They're mostly focused on big enterprise/govt customers, mostly in the US. That's because american law requires companies to make workplaces accessible, which is not the case in most other countries. Big corps tend to trust other big corps like FS more than open source software. This is, in part, because Freedom Scientific, instead of providing just JAWS itself, provides some auxiliary services like technical  support, writing scripts that make custom, internal applications accessible etc. They even make Jfw work with some piece of software if a big corp needs it. They're focused on business applications like MS Office, and those work with JAWS really well, better than NVDA. They care a lot about efficiency, fast access to information etc. as all of this matters in the workplace. Individual customers are a nice bonus, not their main source of revenue. I wouldn't say that they made this decision out of sheer stupidity, they probably realized the the individual customers market is dominated by NVDA and smartphones, where JAWS doesn't run. They can get much more money out of providing JAWS at a very high price, selling it to companies, along with the additional services they need, of course.

One thing to note, though, is that the attitude to cracks isn't shared by other companies, particularly those who distribute FS products to other countries. For example, Altix, the FS dealer for Poland, modifies the polish version of JAWS and adds software to it. This software displays annoing alerts every few minutes unless you register your JAWS with Altix, and you can only do that if you purchased the serial with them. They try tp sell JFW to whomever they can, sometimes even to people who don't need it at all. There seems to be a coordinated efford by the dealers to spread FUD about NVDA. There have been some articles floating around, stating that NVDA is just two guys in a garage, that it might stop exist at any point, destroy your computer etc. Most of it is utter bs, of course.

2019-12-06 13:33:30

I seem to recall someone saying that an FS employee or executive once told them that their real source of income was charging 10x the cost of manufacture on notetakers. They also historically made those difficult to impossible to service without sending them in, meaning that you needed either a warrantee or to pay a service fee. Add to that what everyone has already said about businesses, schools, and governments doing most of the software purchasing, and I get the impression that individuals cracking Jaws is their lowest priority.

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2019-12-07 03:12:35

If they find out that your serial number is cracked, they will shut it down. I know of someone who had that happen, and it wasn't even his fault. Someone apparently generated a number and it just so happened to be his. FS got widn of it when he was trying to purchase an SMA or something. Fortunately they gave him a new number since it wasn't his fault.