2019-09-12 18:08:01

@assault: PM me who you are on SC. I swear I've spoken to you on Fringe comms and it's nagging at me who you are tongue

Don't get me wrong. CR is a nice idea....but it feels like Nathan took a bunch of cool sounding ideas, slapped them together then went oh fuck, how do I make this work though. Maybe I'm old school, but I want to., ya know, get into a ship on a space game, not have to toil away doing fossils and traipse all over the map for them. Also no, it's more than 'a few hours', because you're going back and forth, waiting on the pods at levels under 10, and you're sitting there wasting a ton of time when you could be doing other things. That to me is bad design.

Okay, there are pluses. I like some of the coded systems, I like the puzzle aspect of the mining activity. However, I'm also feeling like it's a giant waste of time, go to mining area, dig, dig, dig, clean find, put in kit, dig, dig, dig, deck the guy who robs you, eta.

So, if anyone has any hints on how to get to level 40 without breaking my wrists and being bored outta my skull just doing digging....post 'em. Because I don't want to spend hours and hours and weeks and so on, stuck on one activity.

The things I don't like about CR?

The anxiety over my concept.

The fact I get lost too easily in uncharted space. I mentioned it earlier, but I accidentally fired off a distress signal and got my wrist slapped for it.

The alliance taxes.

Things I like:

The mechanics

The overall feel of it

The ground combat is fun

The variety of activities.

For a side by side comparison:

CR:

Starting out I can go get my shit to hand mine, and do that for hours for little reward, or go traipse around the map for hours finding the one shop that has a limited (yes, LIMITED) suppply of essential items.

SC:

I can start out and buy a ship instantly and have five or six ways to make credits, mail delivery, couriers, the tutorial guy, and so forth.

Se the issue here?

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2019-09-12 18:54:57 (edited by Dakonna 2019-09-12 19:07:46)

Huge post coming up. I tried to be constructive and keep the senseless bashing to a minimum, I really did, ok? But this is all I can do.
My problem with cr is the whole way activities work. Almost every activity has a level cap, and once you reach it, the rewards you get from that activity stop skaling with your level. I know why this was done, because in the first weeks after launch you could basically get hundreds of levels from just dredging or volcano harvesting, which are both two ridiculously easy activities. Unfortunately though, this leads to the horrible situation you have now. There are about 80 activities spread across 1800 levels, but you will probably end up only doing about 30 of them since all the other ones are either too much of a pain to do because of risks or too much efort for too little gain, or they're group activities. Group activities really aren't practical if you have to look for players in a very specific level range in order to do them. it might work if cr was a much bigger game, but with an average of about 20 people on at any time most of which are overleveled dinosaurs, there is no point to them.
Most of the time it just seems like all these activities were added in so the hosts could say "look we have over 80 unique activities which are all totally challenging and fun to do!"
The way activities are spred out is another drawback. Up until level 200 or so, you always have about three activities you can choose from. After that though, things start getting more and more linear. By level 600, you're restricted to star studying, because it's the only activity that pays decently and isn't stupidly hard or meant to be done in a group.
This really doesn't get much better. Level 1100 is where star core activities become a thing, and the only thing that gets you some levels, though the star core module is a bitch to replace if it ever breaks which can happen easily if you make just one mistake.
If you use coring to grind your way all the way to 1500, you get to do star rescuing which is basically the same reaction game you play while extracting gas from cores, just with different names and less risk involved. How it continues after that I don't know, but leveling probably doesn't get any less dull.
I've said this before, I'll say it again. It's not about how many activities you can brainstorm, or how hard your activities are. It's about making those that are there engaging and fun to play, while leaving options for team players and those to like to go solo. I'd rather have 10 rewarding and involved activities like in the case of sc than 80 random, nonsensical and repetitive forms of busywork.
Finally, I'd like to conclude this activity rant thingy by saying that most of cr's activities just make little sense for a pilot. This is one thing I never got a good explanation for on the game. Why does a pilot trained to fly starships also have to dig for gems, pick up trash, dredge even more trash and drive a boat? There's supposed to be an academy pilots graduate from, but let me ask, what the heck do they learn there if you have to train skills like starship movement just to be able to... erm, pilot?
The hosts responsible for designing and writing new activities obviously don't grasp some of the scientiffic concepts they use when justifying the story or mechanics of activities. Take dark matter mining. Yes, we don't know how to find dark matter IRL. But I can tell you that there's probably no such thing as a dark matter mining sight you build bases on and harvest, because right now, all dark matter mining is is a more fancy form of asteroid mining.
Another example of broken mechanics is ship upgrades. More specifically, activity related upgrades. How can a 100 + room sized battleship with maxed hull, shields, defenses, cloak, every single weapon in every single weapon room, and 20 cargo bays get every extraction and collection module known to the races? Where does it all go? Things like that need to be stored while not operational, and the very fact ships can even take off apparently means that either whatever engine and power generation tech is used is unreasonably powerful, or there's some overkill miniaturisation going on. The latter is highly unlikely though since the various activity messages indicate the equipment used is very heavy (drills, propelers, laser arrays etc).
There are some narative questions which never got resolved either. What are the dimensions of the sectors you're going in? How big is a coordinate unit? And why, for heaven's sake has everyone seemingly agreed to expand to the north and only to the north? The game attempts to justify this by saying that vacus and droid space are located to galactic east and west, while the star disaster has formed star fields above and black holes below.
This model, however, is faulty in several points.
1: If two of the enemy races have cut the allied races off from any expansion, it should be logical even to the chronically inept that the two could easily join forces and force the allies to fight a war on at least two fronts, since the other two enemy races could just as well attack them from a different directions.
Failing this, possibly because the droids have a senseless wish to kill all life that isn't them, the location of ally space would still mean a huge disadvantage because they'd still have to fight at least two wars simultaniously. So even if the vacus and droids were bitter enemies, one of them should be able to break through and employ planetary distruction technologies which are very prevalent in the cr universe.
2: Somewhere in cr's help files, it is stated that expantion southwards is not conducted because everyone believes that portion of space is cursed, simply because a colony was lost there. This makes no sense for two reasons.
Firstly, the year is 2493 or whatever and you'd expect at least the human culture to have advanced beyond such tryvial things. After all, in the 1960s, apollo 1 took off but then burst into flames killing all three astronauts on board. We didn't believe the moon was cursed after that, and landed there in 1969. You'd think after centuries to forget the loss of the colony, they'd try another push to the south.
Secondly, there is no reason for the other races to share the same belief, especially not for the mutariansi which acording to lore and events were discovered in 2491. They weren't even in the picture when the colony was lost. And even if the entire general population of allied space was of the same opinion, it would only take one group of determined pilots with lots of resources to strike out on their own.
3: Space is really freaking huge. So the vacus and droid teritories must have an end, too. Right now though it seems as if all three factions expand at the exact same rate which fails to make sense to me. Droids should be able to expand faster, since they are an eficient race (or they're supposed to be), and it's said that vacus breed very quickly. Unless they build many space stations within their own teritories, or simply so many die for the war effort, they would run out of room quickly.
4: I can't imagine how the star disaster spread through nearly the entire known universe and only left just enough for the races to exist. Conclusion: The star fields and black hole fields must have an end somewhere. Right now, they don't. The game just doesn't let you go further unless you have coring equipment, which lets you enter star sectors.
Some other stuff that just doesn't work.
5: What is it with all the sectors being exactly the same distance apart? It looks like each sector is a solar system in its own right, because most sectors have at least one star and one planet in them. That's not how space works.
6: Alienated humans. In the world help file for Temreth, it says that a population of humans was living there when it was discovered. No. Just... no. You can't do that. We have millions of species on this planet alone, and we weren't the only one to develop some form of intelligence. You can't just say Evolution randomly created identical humans on another planet and call it a day. Yes, we have no examples of alien species. But please, if you want to give your planet an interesting stories don't put humans on it pre-discovery!
If that's something you really have to do, say the humans found on the planet were survivers from a failed generation ship project that lost contact with civilization and their origens ended up faiding into legend as the centuries dragged on. Or whatever else that doesn't signify that another humanity evolved here.
One more thing about temreth. The way colonization was handeled is unprecedented. Colonization and first contact is an area the allies should have plenty of experience with based on previous events, but then they go build a city on a mountain and declare themselves gods over the natives, and precede to enslave them.
7: Seriously, dragons? Motherfucking dragons?
Cr justifies the existence of space dragons by trying to incorparate them into earth history. Ok, that's still manageable. But then you have these very same dragons, which are supposed to be pretty huge, sitting on human sized sofas, lying in beds, flying around in aircraft which are described as tiny and cramped for everyone, and generally doing things that would cause complications do to their physiology IRL.
The thing about them being able to breathe fire just doesn't work. Where does the energy, fuel, and heat for creating fire come from? How did nature go about evolving such a traight without permanently scorching the dragon's mouthes? It just seems to me like the whole fire thing is plain magic, and you don't do that in a space game.
Some closing random points that get on my nerves.
Allowing access to machinery that's capable of destroying pllanets and stations with a few button presses to anyone with a pilot's license is a really bad idea IMO. Technically all any extremist terrorist group would have to do is blow up star command to make the military lose its home base and then just zap their way through the whole of human space, which really isn't too hard considering it's all layed out linearly.
The enemy race's stratigy of war should be unsustainable for even the most efficient workers and breeders. During invasions, the hosts typically send in ships by the hundreds if they last for long enough. Even the smallest vacus fighter contains 2 warriors, and most of the larger ships used during invasions have up to 50 in them, maybe more. Mostly The same for the other enemies. At the rate the enemy loses ships, they should be unable to keep up with production unless they all have somehow developed the tech to 3d print them in which case, the allies would have a disadvantage if you think about how long it takes and how many resources are required for a player to build a ship on their own. If one sdl recruit can sit in their 20 pilot ultra mega titan cruiser of doom and gloom and single handidly clean out a hundred droid intergalactic destroyer cruise thingies in five minutes, something's not being simulated properly. And let's not even begin to talk about the reconstruction system. All you have to do is hit a button and your ship is fully built from nowhere in about 30 seconds, a process which, in the case of a custom ship, takes you forever to complete initially.
Here, I must point to sc again. hats off to them, because their battle mechanics actually make sense. Losing a ship has consequences, and it can be asumed that this counts for the outsiders and IFS as well since they don't send 200 ships into a beacon drop or invasion mission.
Final question, why do you want to farm on a planet that is obviously not suited to it? Terrainia or whatever the farm planet is called is an ice world. The only reason you'd farm here would be for the allies to demonstrate how much they can manipulate nature. I think splitting moons and planets apart is enough to show that.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2019-09-12 19:18:50

That was a hell of a long post Connor and I agree with all your points.

The point about 'why does a pilot need to dig for gems' is justified (poorly IMHO) by the 'you need to provide for your planet' BS. No. You're a pilot. If you want to provide, get a ship, do supply runs, do cargo runs and cargo deliveries.

I find SC's system of doing courier jobs and mail deliveries (ya that's a thing there) to be infinitely more fun then CR's basic tasks. Hell if I were running CR I'd say right, you get a ship at level 1. It's a weak ass ship, and you gotta do supply runs, you gotta do patrols and so n and so forth to level up.

Or fuck it, just do what SC does, get rid of levels, and go with a point system. I'll admit, my SC points are horrifically skewed toward industry because I'm a wuss when it comes to combat. I've not lost a ship (yet), I ran away from the IF guys when they jumped into my sector thanks, but in CR I just feel like there's so many needless mechanics. I want to get to level 40 to see what the space shit is like. But I don't want to, like I said, have to grind and grind and grind planet based activities to get there, because I am bored out of my mind doing gem digging and shit. Okay, the little puzzle of which bit of the kit goes with which find was okay for a few minutes, but......it's just boring and repetitive.

As much as Miriani get shit on (deservedly so for some reasons), its activities make more sense than CR. SC's however fit extremely well into the theme and lore of their game. You're a civilian pilot, you are going to spend 99% of your time with other pilots or in a ship, so it makes sense to put in activities based around that really. CR just, like I said, seems like Nathan took a bunch of ides and threw them all together without figuring out how they'll all work. I don't feel like grinding one activity to get to level 10 then go from there. THe activities are /not/ fun in the least. No, it's not me being grumpy. I can happily sit on SC and I can haul mail or deliver courier jobs for hours and hours, because those are at least interesting and well put together and, dare I say it...fun!

CR's on the other hand feel entirely boring and uninteresting.

SC's mail delivery goes like this:

Get out of ship, go to mail room, request mail, specify what ship it's in, get in ship, go to destination, deliver mail. Get paid.

CR's basic activities are like this:

Go to store, buy things, go to train station, wait on train, ride train to area, get off train, go to activity area, do activity, go back to station, wait for train, ride train, go to shop and turn in your activity to get paid

See how much more complex and tedious CR is in that example? Yes I was using the starter jobs for both. I can do both as a new player on either game.

Also, Why does CR not let me delete a charactr  and start over if I'm not enjoying it? I'd like to try a different race in CR, or a different alliance in SC. I can do that a lot easier in SC by just wiping my char and starting over. S CR I need to level up to 200. Which frankly is all zzzzzzzzz to me

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2019-09-12 20:56:36

Maybe sc is cool, fancy shmancy and this sort of stuff, but i shouldn't be forced to write a profile/concept/other useless things to play. I don't like rp it self, i'd just like to sit there and do space stuff, alone or with my friends, sure meating friends there would be a good idea also, nothing against that.
But writing a 1000000 word long shit to play a game, no thanks.
Why there is no ordinary concept pattons to click on and just get on with it? like you choose this this and this, and your set.
I don't like to write descryptions, i don't like to write profiles eeven more.
So maybe star conquest is a thing, but because of it's profile enforcement, just hmph.

2019-09-12 21:10:48

You are not 'forced' to write a concept or profile. It's perfectly possible to play as a cadet. Now, I might have missed it somewhere, but it isn't mandatory to do a profile, I might have missed that somewhere, but....you start out as a cadet and it in fact won't let you even think about a profile until, well, you hit a certain point. As for the intensive RP, I honestly am not eeing it, but I'm basing this off of fringe comms. Maybe if I was hanging out with them it'd be different, but....at least in comms, and oh yeah you will be doing a lot of things solo in SC to start with, as a cadet all your ships are one crew ships, you'll mostly get a view of everyone else by comms.

Here's my argument, where do you think you're forced to write a profile to play a game? You aren't. It's like a limited demo, really. You can still play a good chunk of the features but to unlock it, so to speak, you need to write a profile.

And, to add on to Connor's post up there (#52)

I'd argue just give people a base starter ship and one or two space activities, hell make space trash collecting or something from level 1-10 in CR, it makes no sense you go through the IC tutorial, the Academy, but....it's just walls of text. There's no practical demonstrations, no simulator work, nada, really. I'd much rather log onto a game and be able to get straight into doing what I want, honestly, that being, oh I don't know, helping out my alliance in SC, or, ya knw, not getting bored as shit in CR by the same repetitive early game tasks

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2019-09-12 21:16:30

That's the whole point of 53 though... you are in fact restricted from doing most of the cool stuff on SC, unless you write a profile. You won't be able to go out to the glyphmaker's Grave, get a tier 3 battlesuit with all the awesome attachments, go run beacons in a gunship with rapid assault ships and IFS and all that terrifying shit, make use of those lock evasions and get yourself an awesome cruiser... you get the idea. So to actually play the game, emphasis on actually play... yes, you do HAVE TO, all caps, write a profile. Which, yes... I can also understand, because I don't like it either. If I ever lose my current character, I probably won't start another, just because I also hate writing for the most part.

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2019-09-12 21:50:23

what are your names on SC? I'm a cadet from the league alliance.

Paul

2019-09-12 23:29:23

Some clarifications about SC.

First, it is indeed roleplay intensive. You can't say over your comms, "I'm going afk for a few," or "sorry guys, my vipmud froze on me." They will catch that and give you ooc warnings pretty quickly.
Second, you do indeed need to write a concept and profile to advance beyond a certain point or buy any ships beyond the flitter, cargo hauler, or fighter. You can, however, join in on other people's activities. We take cadets on things all the time, and people are happy to train others. IN fact, as I speak, two cadets are going on a nest with two other people right now.

Finally. They take metagaming pretty seriously, and they will hold it against  you for a long time. Metagaming is using out of character knowledge in character, so knowing that Assault is Fringe and who he is and showing up suddenly being best friends when you're League looks suspicious and is pretty easy to spot. Join in, and let things happen organicly.

thanks,
Michael

2019-09-13 17:09:16 (edited by JaceK 2019-09-13 17:15:33)

I had a whole post lined up to rspond to you, Drums....then I got a MariaDB error.

For the argument that you're forced to write a profile, that's half true. You aren't forced to as soon as you get into the game itself, but you do past a certain point. However, you aren't locked out of the stuff entirely because you are a cadet. Hell< I sent my profile in, and after a few minutes of sketching it out and referring back to the help files, I found it easy once I thought about what I wanted in a character and I'd enjoy playing. But, YMMV.

I'm still meh on CR though, if anything, Connor's post makes more sense now rereading it a day later. I've tried. I've tried, but no, I said this when I loggd in earlier and had high level people respond, that to me is the issue. High level people can do all the activities, are not low level and stuck with three activities. I did though appraently directly get the bushes changed thanks to my impressive trick of dying every time I saw one. Gotta love that, leap, dead, sub notice about changed damage values. Had to laugh at that that I showed off how I'm so adept at dying so things got changed. Also, I'm still highly of the opinion that, hey, ya know, I still don't wanna grind fifty hours (it seems like between running back and fort) of hand mining on CR to get ten levels. I get it, it's supposed to be something you work at, but when the activities are dull and boring, and you're cut off from most of the game by not being able to get a ship, and get off the starting planet.....yeah.don't

EDIT: Er...responding to 53, even. Personally I don't mind the profile and concept system, you get a good chunk of the game without writing one, with restrictions. It seems fairly set up to me.

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2019-09-13 17:09:57

@Paulie: Markus Arancallla. Fringe here. Waiting on profile feedback as of writing this post. Who be you, Paulie?

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2019-09-13 18:00:07

The problem with that though is, speaking for myself and probably othrs... we just wanna play the game, because it's a good game. I like to interact with other players, but full on RP has never been my thing. That's why some people have a problem with the profile system.

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2019-09-14 18:36:17

hay, well, let me way in here, i was just starting the game a while back, sc that is
then boom, i'm in this wierd room about half an hour in and forced to wright a profile to get out.
that ended the game for me.

2019-09-14 18:52:55

when you say rp enforced, does it mean you have to talk to people?

2019-09-14 19:07:39 (edited by Shadowcat 2019-09-14 19:09:11)

RP enforced in SC's case means no breaking character... at all. There is an oocsay command, but it's only supposed to be used for emergencies and you get warned if you use it too much at one time. You're not absolutely required to talk to people... you could in theory go off alone for a while, but people don't generally do that, because unlike Miriani, cooperating with other players actually gets you somewhere. Plus the profile requirement that needs you to clearly define who your character is and their personality. Like the game itself is good... but I'm not blind to its faults, and it also isn't everyone's thing.

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2019-09-14 19:35:35

@60 I am Paul Smit.

Paul

2019-09-15 02:21:18

There's always Starmourn. I'm not sure if there's any work on sound packs for it however.

2019-09-15 08:05:32

Starmourn probably won't be getting any soundpacks since there's different outputs for so many abilities and mobs. Also the lessons thing is a pain in the ass and set up to have you run into a paywall sooner or later.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2019-09-15 11:10:24

Thought I'd run across you Paulie. Also hell yes to being a full pilot first tr, with a quick 400 word profile that I figured would be thrown back for being a bit silly...but it sailed right through with no quirks. Now ot grind my way to roid haulers. Got 3 mill creds.....and I wanna roid haul now, yo.Pau

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2019-09-15 11:22:13

I'm Simon Colins on the game. No idea for how long I'll be around but I do play off and on.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2019-09-15 11:36:48

I've seen you on coms too, If you need my help and you're Fringe, just convince me to help you out. I'll need help with roid hauling by the way guys or help with ground combat missions as a rule. Thank you battlesuits and MITE folks

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2019-09-15 12:22:24

Also alright, I'm unsure what ship to go for after the cargo hauler. Torn between a transport or roid hauler. Or a fighter if I want to wipe out RATS, either way. Any advice SC guys?

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2019-09-15 17:19:32

Don't get the roid hauler until you can get the improved anchor package for it. Stick with a transport for now. Salvaging is boring, but it will earn you points the fastest.

thanks,
Michael

2019-09-15 17:57:16

Started playing SC the other day, and I'm having a blast with it! The activities run circles around Miriani's, and cosmic just feels like a grind fest. I'm having a hard time thinking up a character concept and profile though, but I like that I can still participate in beacons and whatnot.

2019-09-15 18:23:31

@73: I did a simple one and got accepted. I just thought okay, my guy's fringe, he's not sure on the Committee. And I did my profile with some quirks, like fucking hos way through flight school, and being motivated by credits and making peace with being on Chetumal during bombardments.

Hpefully that helps

@Drums: Are you Alyssa Kingston on SC? I'm torn between going for a cheap transport, or getting the more expensive one with a lot more cargo space. Hell I did briefly think on a star taxi....but my goal is to get an Isotope and help the Fringe out with that. SC just feels friendly and there's always something going on in your alliance, even if it's just talking over comms while running mail or roids or whatever it is.

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2019-09-15 20:56:52

So....yeah, where /do/ I get a transport from exactly? I was told to use the train to get to Manhattan on Old Earth. But I'm totally lost now.

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