2019-03-12 01:20:46

Hey folks, been trying Eurofly out for the past week or two and it's driving me crazy.

I understand that it's a highly technical game. I've read every document I can get my hands on, have watched multiple Youtube videos. My issue is that I can't seem to take off almost every time I fly, and I don't get why.

My flaps read as "on" when I press Ctrl-f. I'm at or above the current takeoff speed as listed after fueling up. My nose is at around 15. Not sure whether it needs to be 10-15 or 15-18 but I've tried both, no change. I have clearance to take off. What almost always happens is I cruise down and barrel off the runway. I'd like to actually be able to play this game, but I'm not clear what I'm doing wrong. It almost feels like the code checks that things are done in a precise order, and if you speed up before tilting your nose, open your flaps before starting, etc. the conditional check won't let you get any altitude. Has anyone else experienced this? It's like the laws of Eurofly physics only let me take off if I open my flaps, speed up, tilt my nose up, etc. and if I speed up, tilt nose, open flaps, etc. the world laws of physics don't let me fly without giving me a convincing reason why.

I'm also not at all clear how runways work at larger airports. I get that there are gates, and runways 1-3 are immediately past those. I also get that there are A and B series runways, which I can turn onto to find runways 1-3. What I'm *not* clear on is which way I'm supposed to face when taking off. Do I always face north? Do I face the beep and runway announcement, whichever direction that is? Should I stop before the beep and switch to the approach frequency, drive past it after I face it, or what? The docs are a bit unclear and the English is a bit broken, so I'm having a hard time following.

Thanks for any help.

2019-03-12 02:52:08

Hi Nolan,

Here's the best way I've found to take off. It works for me every time unless I make a mistake.
1. Go ahead and extend your flaps while you're turning on all your other systems (radio, transponder, pressure, etc).
2. When you hear the beep for the runway you are supposed to use, turn toward it using ctrl+left arrow if the beep is coming from your left side or ctrl+right arrow if it is coming from your right. At this point, I personally like to be going around 20 miles per hour (32 kilometers per hour).
3. You can check your direction by pressing s. If you're using the original sounds, you will hear a ding and you will be told to contact the tower for takeoff clearance once you're facing down the runway.
4. If you want to be extra safe, stop your plane while you get ready to take off. Then, press f to get the tower frequency and enter it by pressing alt+f. After that, press F1 until you are told that you are clear to take off. This usually takes several tries.
5. You can check your current takeoff speed by pressing ctrl+enter. You can then press c until you hear current takeoff speed. Once you are given the all clear to take off, begin speeding up by pressing alt+home. This will make you speed up automatically without having to hold down the home key.
6. Once you start getting close to your current takeoff speed, begin raising the nose of your plane by pressing the down arrow. I prefer an angle of 15, but you shouldn't have any trouble as long as you're close.
7. When you leave the ground, you will hear a constant wind sound. The instant you hear the wind sound, stop yourself from continuing to speed up by pressing the delete key on the main keyboard (not the one on the numpad). Then, start checking your height by pressing z. At around height 5, press ctrl+f to retract your flaps. Around height 10, press ctrl+g to raise your landing gear.
8. Raising your landing gear will cause your pllane to speed up, so begin holding down the end key to slow down. Keep checking your speed with r until you're at your current takeoff speed. Not doing this will cause you to crash.
9. If you're in a category 1 plane, raising the landing gear will speed you up 12 MPH (20 kPH). If you're in a cat 2, it will speed you up 18 MPH (30 Kph). If you're in a cat 3, it will speed you up 24 MPH (40 KPH).
10. Finally, if you are flying a cat 1, continue monitoring your height until you get to 500 meters, then reduce the angle of your nose to 0. If flying a cat 2 or 3, you can make this happen automatically by pressing alt+z and entering the height you want to go to.

I hope this has been helpful. I know it sounds really complicated, but it just takes practice. If you are still  having trouble, just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

2019-03-12 03:05:06

In short, the game is highly unrealistic, and you die for stupid reasons. I have studied aviation quite extensively, and am most unimpressed that they call it a flight simulation. If they simply didn't tack that on, things would be different, but they miss the mark in many areas of the flight experience.

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2019-03-12 03:22:34 (edited by seb 2019-03-12 03:24:15)

Ironcross pretty much mentioned the reason I stopped playing this game a while ago. You also crash for stupid reasons, it's like everything is all scripted. Is it a fun game? Sure. However it's far from being a flight sim.

2019-03-12 03:32:50

Thanks, all. I'll give it a few more tries and use what I read in @2, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels it's a bit arbitrary. I'm OK with fudging some realism in the name of making something accessible, but there's not enough information to know why I fail when I do, other than that I've gone off the runway and crashed. And ideally I'd like to *stay* on the runway, so it'd be nice if the game was clear about what direction that was. smile

@2, one thing I'm not clear about still. If I'm assigned to a runway, do I just turn and face the beep, or do I have to face a specific direction after I've turned off the main road? I.e.:

If I'm assigned runway 2, and I hear the beep to my right, do I just turn right such that I'm facing east? Or do I face east, roll past the beep, then turn north again? What about the various A1-A3 runways?

Thanks.

2019-03-12 04:06:08 (edited by Josh 2019-03-12 04:12:57)

First of all, I agree completely with posts 3 and 4. As a flight sim, it's not realistic at all. However, it's still a fun game to play IMO.

@5: If you're assigned to a runway, you want to turn until the beep is in front of you. If you travel far enough while turning, the beep may disappear. This means you are on the runway. At this point, you are facing down the runway you need to use to take off. You don't want to turn any more after that or you will be off track and will most likely crash.

Going by your example, if you are going north and hear your assigned runway to your east, turn east. After that, stay facing east until you're in the air and are ready to set your course toward your destination. The A1-A3 runways work the same way. The only difference is that you have to turn when you hear A or B, then just go straight and wait until you hear  your assigned runway. At that point, just perform the same steps listed above.

2019-04-10 00:15:23

Post 3 and 4 you know this is for blind users?I dont understand why you dislike this game soo much.
If its because you cant play it dont make others to not play it.
At first seems complicate but when you learn the mechanics this game is easy.
Lets say the current take off speed is 260Km/h.Me personally i drive until 240Km/h then press delete
start rising my nose to 15 then i hear a wind sound i retract my flaps and landing gear then i check the speed and i match it.After i hear takeoff succesfull i start heading to my destination.

2019-04-10 00:42:58

Who says we can't play it. I've completed at least some of the tasks, but there is no enjoyment because almost every area of the flight model is incorrect in some way or other. Also, I'm not sure why you felt the need to snap at us a month after the last post.

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2019-04-10 01:05:45 (edited by seb 2019-04-10 01:06:16)

At post 7 I played this game quite a lot before getting bored of it, so i have no idea where you got the impression that I, for one, said I can't play it and two, I just can't seem to find evidence where we suggested people not to play this game in both post three and four. We're all entitled to our opinion, however as much as this game can be enjoyable for some it doesn't mean it should be called a flight sim. Besides, the game being for blind users has nothing to do with what I've mentioned above.

2019-04-10 03:55:50

@7, just because you are blind does in no way mean that the laws of the universe do not apply to you. Just because you are blind doesn't mean that, when you call something a flight simulator, you shouldn't do your best to use the physics engines available to you, the information on how aircraft work, and the mathematics to generate the appropriate physics to make it feel realistic and interesting.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2019-04-10 18:32:04

so, how does this differ from a flight sim?

Blindness isn't a disability, but a diffrent way of seeing things

2019-04-10 18:35:02

I wrote up this huge topic about all the differences in one of the topics regarding the version 2.0 release. Suffice it to say though, quite a great deal. Flight sims don't have such linear logic to suggest that if you don't have each of these things done in this order at this time, boom, you're dead. You crash in a flight sim if you'd crash in real life. You don't just crash because the game says you do. Not only that, the flight model is basically non-existent in Eurofly. I'm not going to re-write that post, because that was a tyme sync I don't want to repeat, but the differences are vast.

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2019-04-10 18:39:05

Ug, don't know much about aviation, but tdv is easier, and seems to be a little more realistic.
Taking off is easy. Flying is easy. Fighting is easy. Landing is a little harder.
Only problem is there's hardly any land.
Like, there's free flights, but no runways, or anything like that, you just kinda take off.

----------
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2019-04-10 20:31:42 (edited by Rastislav Kish 2019-04-10 20:32:27)

@nolan: thank you for playing Eurofly. smile
It's true that game mechanics may seem bit complicated for first time. Sadly there probably isn't other way than trying, there are resources on:
http://eurofly.stefankiss.sk/modules.ph … Helpcenter
which can help you.

to clarify what means Eurofly is a flight simulator. What's unique on Eurofly is, how it handles its world map. While many games use a simple 2D map to move around, this approach is very inaccurate when you want to work with spheroid like Earth is. Thus Eurofly uses special mathematical formulas to calculate realistic movement on 3D object rather than flattened 2D plane. That's why it's called flight simulator, it simulates a plane flying on Earth, so you travel on the same track like real plane would.
now if this is what you want, then Eurofly looks like a good option for you.
If you are looking for a realistic physical simulation of plane, then Eurofly probably wouldn't suit your needs.

Also another note on this topic, there are many blind people out there, who claims themselves to be super aviation experts. I don't know what and where they have studied. But one thing I am sure about is, that none of this guys has ever piloted a plane.
And it's for a reason. Basically, if you make 100% realistic simulation, with plane physics, airport traffic etc. then you most likely wouldn't even be able to take off, neither land or wait near airports to land. it isn't pleasant to hear, but it's a fact. Our ears are too weak when compared with sight, I was sighted for about 11 years, so i know what I'm talking about.

Now, to be more optimistic, there are approaches, which for example help you in critical parts of flight, and let you controll those parts where sight isn't that important. You can search for them if you want a near realistic simulation.
so, why don't we introduce those assistive technologies as well?
Answer is simple, to keep it all simple. Omitting fact that coding realistic flight simulator is extremely hard, what you can see exactly on those aviation experts, who have presented nothing at all, even when they have few people who claim themselves as experienced programmers, it would be too hard for average player to learn it. many have had problems in this version already, I can't imagine our contact channels if we introduced a fully realistic flight simulator.
there are few people who want it, we're okay with it, but there are thousands others who don't. Features like the ability to go backward, was requested by users. We are trying to make some compromises to improve realisticity, but there are limits.

Having that said, you should now be able to decide if it's worth for you to continue with Eurofly or not. if you are interested in world's geography, then I strongly recommend it.
if you want a realistic simulator and the map isn't important for you, then it would probably be better for you to look for another simulator.

Anyway I wish you good luck and fun.:)

best regards

Rastislav

2019-04-10 22:53:53

OK, let's tackle these points bit by bit.

Rastislav Kiss wrote:

to clarify what means Eurofly is a flight simulator. What's unique on Eurofly is, how it handles its world map. While many games use a simple 2D map to move around, this approach is very inaccurate when you want to work with spheroid like Earth is. Thus Eurofly uses special mathematical formulas to calculate realistic movement on 3D object rather than flattened 2D plane. That's why it's called flight simulator, it simulates a plane flying on Earth, so you travel on the same track like real plane would.

This is the part that I like, the map is nice to walk around in, and it's cool to fly over your country, or explore new geography you're not familiar with. However, that doesn't make this a flight simulator because a flight simulator attempts to recreate the flight model of an aircraft as well as the world in which it flies. Eurofly doesn't accurately simulate the aircraft, which in all actuality is fine, however, labeling it as a flight simulator is a bit of a misnomer.

Rastislav Kiss wrote:

Also another note on this topic, there are many blind people out there, who claims themselves to be super aviation experts. I don't know what and where they have studied. But one thing I am sure about is, that none of this guys has ever piloted a plane.

You have no way of knowing that. Also, if you would have said piloted a plane alone, I could have put more stock into what you say, but you don't know if one or more of us have ever gotten to take the controls of a plane in flight. I personally haven't, but it comes off as rather pretentious of you to say that none of us have. Also, what's wrong with being an aviation enthusiast? I almost detect a condescending tone in that phrasing; which, I fully admit, could be my own interpretation since text doesn't really convey emotion well.

Rastislav Kiss wrote:

Answer is simple, to keep it all simple. Omitting fact that coding realistic flight simulator is extremely hard, what you can see exactly on those aviation experts, who have presented nothing at all, even when they have few people who claim themselves as experienced programmers, it would be too hard for average player to learn it.

No doubt it's difficult, in fact, maddengly difficult I'd be confident to venture. I don't know what you mean by presented nothing at all, I, and several others have gone into great detail to try to shed some light on what Eurofly doesn't have as far as accurate flight model simulation. So, saying we've presented nothing is a bit of a slap in the face. As far as coding, it's not our project, we only provided information, it's not our job to code Eurofly, and it's not our place to do so. Also, I agree that it is difficult to learn, I will expound further on this in a bit.

All that said, if people are enjoying it, that's fine. But you also need to keep in mind that if you label something, and that product doesn't live up to the label you've attached to it, people will call you out on it. I'm sorry, but Eurofly is not a flight simulator. Also, even if you didn't add any more realistic features to the game, the flight system is still very much using skip logic. You don't just die if you go off the runway on to the grass, so why not make that a thing that slows you way down, and if you do it, you have to back up onto the taxiway or runway again and you get a penalty for going onto the grass. Also, if your speed is too low, your flaps aren't extended and so on, these are not things that would cause your plane to crash on take off, at least, not in the instantaneous way you represent it. Then you try to simulate drag by increasing like 20KM/h on some planes when you retract the gear and slowing it when you extend the gear. This causes you to crash, and causes you to have to perform weird throttling maneuvers that you just wouldn't do while taking off. Now that's something that just doesn't need to be there because it will make things more difficult for the average player. The simple fact is though, planes can take off without their flaps, they're just going to use more runway in the process. You use flaps to shorten your take off roll and to help generate some initial lift. There's much more going on than a chain of if/then/else statements in real flying.

I don't really want to go full on with this again though, as last time, it had absolutely no effect, so I'll just say that there's no reason to be attacking us, who call ourselves aviation enthusiasts because we were disappointed by Eurofly. It was over-hyped and called a flight simulator and this and that, which it just isn't. There are definitely some cool things about eurofly, and quite a few people are playing it and loving it, which is fine, but when you make claims about it that just aren't true, then some people are going to express their displeasure about that.

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2019-04-10 23:38:35

Im sorry for what i said.Its just that i really like this game.And yea maybe its not realistic but for a game that its free its good enought for me.