2019-03-10 02:25:17

Hi all,
While this is gaming related, I figured I'd put it in the off topic room just to be safe, although it can be moved if the mods think it should.

I've noticed an influx of new gaming streams lately in the blind community. I was thinking of trying my hand at it, but I have a lot of concerns. If, after reading this, your answers are that if you don't know these things then you have no business even thinking about starting a stream, that's a completely understandable reaction, and all feedback is welcome.

My first problem is that I don't have thousands of dollars to drop on a mixer and related equipment. I know that there are problems with the accessibility of many modern mixers as well, so if anyone has any recommendations for those that are accessible, and hopefully won't break the bank, I would appreciate it. Of course, there's the fact that I have no experience working with such equipment, either, so if there are any beginner tutorials that got you guys up and running, that would also be very helpful. When I've done podcasts in the past, I've used VAC, but that won't do for a live stream, especially since I prefer a lot of fast-paced games where timing is everything. I don't think it worked well on my podcast, either, but at least that format is a bit more forgiving.

Next, there's the fact that I'll need a server and a website. I do not want to go the Youtube route if I can help it, but if that's people's preferred medium, I'll consider it. The reason I don't want to use Youtube is because I don't want to spend the majority of my streams fending off angry sightlings who want to know why the screen is black, spammers, and trolls. While I could purchase a webcam, I just don't want to, particularly since I'm going to have to purchase enough expensive stuff as it is. Even if I do decide that Youtube is the best way to get the most viewers/listeners, I'll still want an audio stream, since I always tune into audio streams myself so that I can remain anonymous if I want to, since my full name is displayed on my Google profile and I can't be the only person who does that.

What chat services do everyone prefer? Of course, if I do decide to go the Youtube route, there's that, which I've already stated seems like a nightmare to moderate. I was thinking of a Skype group, and most likely a Twitter handle, but there again, especially with the Skype group, that seems like a ton of work to maintain. I've had experience moderating mailing lists in the past, and I tend to take a laid-back yet firm approach. If you screw up, you're out, otherwise everything is fine. I don't know, the more I think about this, the more difficult it seems, running a website, a group of some kind, a server to host the content, plus trying to pump out content on a consistent basis, which is the least of my worries, I have quite a few ideas on what I want to do content wise. But I can see why BSG has a team, so that all of that doesn't fall on one person.

The last thing I'm wondering about is if there's actually a need for yet another audio gaming stream. Since there are a bunch of them popping up all over the place, is the market already too saturated? When I think of what I want to accomplish, I immediately think of Liam and BSG. They have vastly different styles, but they're clearly the two most popular in the community right now. I realize that everybody has to start somewhere, but do people actually want another of these streams hanging around, or would it be best to leave well enough alone?

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2019-03-10 02:37:25

I can't help you much with equipment, but I'd say go for it. I have always enjoyed watching people play games.

thanks,
Michael

2019-03-10 03:10:02 (edited by jack 2019-03-10 03:10:28)

What you need is actually not thousands of dollars as far as mixers are concerned. Behringer has several boards that are under 60 bucks. just don't make the mistake I did and look for the zenix502, instead buy the zenix q502 if you want one of those. Zenix q502 is a bit more expensive but it's usb direct, zenix502 is completely annalog and its input is only rca-ports, which will ultimately result in you having to spend $30 on the Behringer UControl 202 which is the only usb soundcard that I know of that does rca-in. If using a mixer, you either need an xlr mic, or the listen option on if you're using a usb mic. So, the Blue Yeti is possible, but it doesn't directly work with the mixer.

2019-03-10 04:05:05 (edited by Chris 2019-03-10 05:31:26)

Here's how My setup works. I have a Behringer XENYX302 which connects to my computer via USB. I've got the Shure SM-48 microphone connected via XLR. The mixer has a couple of line in ports for connecting external devices, and two audio out jacks. The RCA out is for connecting it to a speaker or other device, and there's a 3.5mm headphone out jack. There's also a 3.5mm audio in jack, but that's in mono so only use that with a microphone. I learned that the hard way. There's also a button that specifies whether you want the audio from your computer to go through the mixer or not. The mixer appears as both an input and output device, so you can mixalmost anything you want. I think it's better than using VB Cable or Virtual Audio Cable. It's not quite as powerful as LoopBack, but that's sadly a macOS exclusive application.

Both the mixer and microphone only cost $50. I also had to purchase an XLR cable for $6 or so and a stand for the Shure for about $14, so the total price for equipment is around $120 which isn't bad at all. If you want the ability to record external devices, throw in the price of one or two RCA to 3.5mm cables. Still, that's a decent setup for well under $200. I think that's pretty cool! It means there's no excuse for all these YouTubers who make horrible sounding videos using crappy laptop or cell phone microphones that echo and pick up everything.

As for servers, that depends on what you want to use. I pay $5 a month for a Linux VPS from Linode. This VPS runs all my game servers, an Icecast server for streaming, a Team Talk server, and anything else I think of in the future. I like Icecast because it uses far less bandwidth than a YouTube stream. I have major problems with streams dropping when I tried YouTube. I could use Ethernet, but running a Cat6 cable to my bedroom from the living room seems like a major pain in the ass.

If you want people to join your streams using a chat app, I'd personally recommend using Team Talk or something else that doesn't require you to give out your personal contact info. Of course, you're free to give out your info, but if there are certain people you'd rather not have such info, using Team Talk, Twitter, Ding, etc would work well. The only problem I've run into is that there's no way to share the audio from your computer without the other people being forced to listen to both your computer and themselves. That's just how the mixer I have works, and I haven't found a way around that yet.

Whether you want to do this is completely up to you. I personally thought the stream I ran last night was a lot of fun. I'm not sure if you were listening to it, but it was still a lot of fun regardless of how many people were tuned into it. If you can convince sighted people to listen, even better. I always like to tell people to pretend you're listening to an audio drama or old time radio show. People who have an open mind might actually enjoy the experience. None of my videos on YouTube have meaningful graphics, and I don't care.

I hope that helps. If you need any more help or want me to go through the specific processes I use, feel free to post here or send me a forum email.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2019-03-10 10:39:09 (edited by angel_diva22 2019-03-10 10:40:36)

Hi,

big_smile Yes, I've heard the Behringer Q502 is a nice mixer. However, smile keep in mind, if you want your screen reader to come through, you may need more cables to make that work, or software, like VBCable, or Virtual Audio Cable. which from what I understood when I last checked, was $50.

But then, if you use cables, you might as well get the Behringer Xenyx 302 USB, which, IMO, is better, if you want USB playthrough and do not want to use any cables or any software that will cause latency, or what people call a delay.

Hope this helps some, as far as mixers are concerned.

big_smile big_smile I'm no guru, but still...

2019-03-10 11:29:40

mixer for live sound interface for what you want but some do both fine so these guys know and they say things. Sotware like virtual cable do some thing if ok enough but mixer help. I can do using virtual audio cable use reaper to process me without hardware. well they have you right so i go now i have long time things not come right now easy i lay here in the bed and after liam streamed for 18 heou and i not the whole time there but waked long enough at least for that amount i fery tired so other guys say and i not say now but in time i is back alive again i say if i not hungry now i need software control of it. ok now other guy give good advice so yo uplay games and strem but peraon is important person help make them want stay on your stream you have to watch other mainstream streams hahahahah mainstream streams likelllllllaaaaalalalala hahahaha hehehehe mainstream streams omfg ok i in in in at again watch and they give good personality right so you do it and you get people and peoe stay and good thing happen dont do it right and maybe few say but not all some they have it ability always some not having and some learn ok i after liam now way time too late i leep now good

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-03-10 16:57:10

What's the difference between the Xenyx 302 and the Q502?

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2019-03-10 17:08:30

So I'll chime in with my setup, but I am really the wrong person to ask as my setup is kinda complex
I have a mackie 1202 VLZ Pro 4 I believe. It's an analogue mixer that connects to a sound card ont he PC. yes I could go digital, but I'm old and cranky like that.
Channels 5 6 and 7 all have sound cards on them. 5 is a sound blaster, 6 is the realtech, 7 is a USB IMic, but any card is fine.
My mixer allows me to route channels I do not want going over the main inputs to a alternate set of outputs which I can preview through my headphones.
All the game audio and pretty much any audio comes through channel 5. I put NVDA on channel 6 which I route to the alternate outputs so that no one gets to hear what I'm doing lol. Channel 7 is the IMic which I primarily fire up for skype. I use an aux send connected to the mic in on the USB card to send only my microphone to people on skype.
I have not looked at mixers in many years, so I don't even know what is good or bad as far as digital is concerned.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

Check out my live streams: http://lerven.me
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/liamerven

2019-03-10 21:41:10

Jumpcut says to just use whatever you have, don't worry about equipment; it's the content that matters. But Jumpcut made me sit through 3 hours of Kong saying how awesome their secrets are over and over without saying anything useful, thinking that would make me buy their crap, but it didn't, so what do those rich Californians know?
But, uh, I do think the emphasis on equipment is not as important as it sounds. I'd worry about the software and distribution side first, and upgrade equipment if that stuff works out.
But that hasn't done jack for me, so what do I know?

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2019-03-10 22:06:54

If you want to stream a game and yourself and that's all, you don't even need a mixer. Hell you don't even need to use an audio repeater but you do need VAC or some equivalent. You can use windows 10 now to redirect apps to a certain output with the caveat that the app will have had to like, initialize the sound system or make sound first. I sometimes also use reaper to process my voice, like add a touch of EQ and compression.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-03-10 22:28:53

I could get Audacity to record the soundcard and the microphone without installing anything extra, but that does include the screenreader. If there's some other output device, and you can have the screenreader go to that one, that'd solve it, but we're right back to either VAC-type software, or hardware.
(If you have a Braille display, you might could get away with muting the Screenreader?)

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2019-03-11 00:11:25

@10, so you're saying that there won't be any latency if I use the method you described? This is why I don't want to use VAC, because the way I do it is to make an audio repeater, and tie the two sources together, i.e., the game and whatever other programs need to be streamed on line 1, and my mic on line 2. Even with the total buffers set down to 100, which I've heard is about as low as you can go before problems start to occur, there is still a slight delay between your keystrokes and when the game receives them, which is definitely not what I want. On the other hand, streaming a game and my voice is really about all I need, so if I can do that without latency, it's one less thing i have to worry about.

At everyone else, Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have a look at some of the mixers which were recommended, although I would be really happy if I don't have to go that route. I was surprised at how inexpensive they are, I thought for sure they would cost a lot more than that. I don't really have the physical space for such a thing anyway, but I'll make it work if I have to. I don't even know if this is going to take off, so it would suck to buy a mixer and then have no use for it. At least having a website and server space could have other uses if this doesn't pan out.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2019-03-11 01:00:26

If you add a listen from your line 1 to your speaker from the second page of mmsys.cpl you eliminate most of it, but there is a bit, maybe 30ms, but that's just how it is. You can go lowre than 100ms, this is what the hardware can do, there is no set limit, I run 50ms and there are crackles sometimes, but dependant on CPU load, you may do that with no issues, you may have to push it to 100, or may do less.

Here is my setup... speakers are the default device, not VAC. In the recording tab, go to properties of line 1, go to the listen tab, check the box, in the combobox, set it to speakers. Now anything I play through line 1 I also hear through the speakers. FOr something like Altacast, which is what I use to stream to icecast, I can set one device only, I would use windows 10 to route my game, then use reaper to route my voice. That's a bit over complicated for what it is though, but it allows me to not have to run a repeater.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-03-11 01:07:48

Why don't more applications use Windows WASAPI? It would simplify the process of capturing computer sound. The only programs that do this to my knowledge are Audacity and Gold Wave.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2019-03-11 19:03:13

I used to do podcasting back in the day. To be honest, I just purchased a podcasting kit from amazon that came with a Behringer 502 or something like that, an audio interface, a somewhat cheap mic, and I purchased a wire that was dual 1/4 inch male to 1/8 inch male for phone and other jacks that allow for that. The mixer and interface combination I got had built-in loopback capabilities. You could ideally turn that feature on, and if you don't want people to hear your screen reader from within that context, you could just rout it to your default computer soundcard. Also, there is a setup you can use with VAC such that you can listen to your direct speaker output, thus eliminating delay issues. I wrote a script that would launch the audiorepeater instances with the right configs. I have to dig it up. It was an elegant setup.