76

I'm also curious to know. NVDA works well on many webpages. I also hear that NVDA is very good about supporting the latest web standards.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

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77

Jaws works better with Spotify than NVDA does? Not the last time I checked, which was about 6 or 7 months ago. Both can utilize the basic functions of the player, such as listening to and searching for tracks. However, I couldn't add songs to playlists using JAWS. Considering this is the entire reason I pay for a Spotify account, that's definitely a dealbreaker. I could, at that time, use NVDA to add songs, although it required a lot of use of object nav to get it done. Since an update to Spotify maybe 3 or 4 months ago, neither screen reader will do it, so it's kind of a moot point now, and I have to use the IPhone app if I want to tweak my playlists. But it's definitely a misnomer to say that NVDA doesn't work with Spotify and JAWS does, because there are features that neither can access. Oh, and you can't change your settings using either screen reader, either.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

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78

Hello humans.

Okay, figure I might as well put my voice in. I personally refuse to pay a company for accessabillity. Does a sighted person have to pay to access their computer in addition to the price of purchasing said computer? No! So why should we?

Secondly, why do sertain people take pleasure in bashing NVDA? If you don't like a feature, speak up, rather than writing a rant on this forum. That will never get you anywhere. If you would spend half as much time actually suggesting features to the NVDA devs as you've spent bashing it, we might not even be having this discussion.

Anyway, good day to you all. Tacos be with you!

TGC
"Today I choose life. Every morning when I wake up I can choose joy, happiness, negativity, pain... To feel the freedom that comes from being able to continue to make mistakes and choices - today I choose to feel life, not to deny my humanity but embrace it."
Kevyn Aucoin

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79

@The Great Carver, thumbs up to you. I'm glad to have a fellow human agree that blind people should not have to pay twice as much to use accessibility features.

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80

Well for 1, NVDA is terrible at announcing formfields, where as jaws actually announces that stuff. NVDA does not. One thing I will say, however, is that NVDA works with google chrome, where as jaws, at least version 12, does not.
Jaws though, has different lists, simular to apple's roter settings in voiceover. Want links? Hit insert f7. Want headings? Insert f6 ibelieve, though to be honest i ccan't really remember if that's right or not, i mostly use the links list. All NVDA has is an elements list, it crams all the crap together and it honestly looks more like somebody tried to recreate jaws feature with a spin rather than a new more usefull thing because lets face it, NVDA is terrible for web browsing and why anybody would use it for that I don't kno.
I'm honestly ready to ditch windows all together at home, my pc is terrible and i only really use it for gaming anyways. If there's an accessible mac word processer that can export into word (I use windows at school) let me know. I'm just about done with windows and I'd like to only use it at school if possible.

Lawyer by day, vidual anty by night. I am the man with out feer, I am daredevil!

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81

And to the guy who asked why everybody bashes NVDA? Well, why does everybody bash jaws, is the real question. I've seen more people bash jaws than NVDA, so not sure where you get your info.
Something to point out I forgot to above is that jaws is litterally made for school and office work. The name means job access with speech. Its designed to work with microsoft word and stuff like that. NVDA, in my opinion, is better for the cajual computer user who just plays games. Its also good for programmers who code with python, as if your developing something and you want full screenreader support, you can design add ons with python that work how ever you like. Having said that though, jaws has that too. It has scripts you can create to work with programs. Not quite as good as NVDA, but more secure. The NVDA remote add on is not encrypted and is very, very hackable. It is not hard at all for somebody to hack your connection. With jaws tandom mode, its closed to users, encrypted, and more secure.
So there you have it, my jaws vs NVDA double post rant. I hope you like it.  Now time to play some cycle path.

Lawyer by day, vidual anty by night. I am the man with out feer, I am daredevil!

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82

@Rory, if you need to use Windows for a longer period of time, consider upgrading to a newer version of JAWS, you will see numerous changes.
Doesn't Microsoft Word on Mack work for you? And, can't you use Pages as a word processor, or you encounter the problem of the default file format of the program?

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83

Well about NVDA remote security, it is completely not true. Even if it was, create your own server and noone can hack you. You tell me well I don't know how to do that? A person who figured out by himself that someone can hack you so easily like that should be able to create a server.
Elements list isn't bad at all. Firstly it doesn't put anything together, when you open it you only have links. If you tab, there is a radio button to choose if you want links, headings or landmarks. In next version, there will also be buttons and formfields. In my view, much better than to memorise 5 different shortcuts for that. Even though I personally never found any need to use any links or elements list, for those who do it exists.
About bashing, you have such people at both sides who can't discuss something like this constructively and give real arguments so just resort to throwing random insults they have. Then again, random misconceptions like that NVDA can't browse the web aren't better either.
Guess what, writing this with NVDA. I don't know how is it possible but yes am browsing the web with NVDA, not to mention that there are a lot of sites which are inaccessible and with jaws they can't work, but with NVDA they can. Very simple reason for this is that when jaws sees an empty element, it simply ignores it unlike NVDA.

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84

If were gonna talk about web browsing, i'm going to say that voiceover is the best screenreader for browsing. It is much better than either NVDA or jaws and that is another reason why I plan to switch over entirely to mac. As for pages, I didn't realize it was really accessible. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it doesn't seem to be. Does the document have to always be blank template for voiceover to work propperly?
Microsoft word does not work at all with voiceover. At least microsoft word 15 doesn't anyway and that's the one I have. Regarding the elements list, I didn't know you could tab in it, that's actually quite convenient, the web roter feature in voiceover is still much better though.

Lawyer by day, vidual anty by night. I am the man with out feer, I am daredevil!

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85

nidza07 wrote:

Well about NVDA remote security, it is completely not true. Even if it was, create your own server and noone can hack you. You tell me well I don't know how to do that? A person who figured out by himself that someone can hack you so easily like that should be able to create a server.
Elements list isn't bad at all. Firstly it doesn't put anything together, when you open it you only have links. If you tab, there is a radio button to choose if you want links, headings or landmarks. In next version, there will also be buttons and formfields. In my view, much better than to memorise 5 different shortcuts for that. Even though I personally never found any need to use any links or elements list, for those who do it exists.
About bashing, you have such people at both sides who can't discuss something like this constructively and give real arguments so just resort to throwing random insults they have. Then again, random misconceptions like that NVDA can't browse the web aren't better either.
Guess what, writing this with NVDA. I don't know how is it possible but yes am browsing the web with NVDA, not to mention that there are a lot of sites which are inaccessible and with jaws they can't work, but with NVDA they can. Very simple reason for this is that when jaws sees an empty element, it simply ignores it unlike NVDA.

My thoughts exactly. A big thumbs up for you, sir.

TGC
"Today I choose life. Every morning when I wake up I can choose joy, happiness, negativity, pain... To feel the freedom that comes from being able to continue to make mistakes and choices - today I choose to feel life, not to deny my humanity but embrace it."
Kevyn Aucoin

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86

Lol. I give up.
The same poster that said more people bash JAWS than NVDA just proved my point. Most people bash JAWS because of the expensive cost. I don't accept it, but can understand why persons do it.
NVDA's great web support is why I switched to it in the first place. I saw that the Office support wasn't great, but the truly remarkable web support pulled me in from day one. Then, as years go by, I saw the support for PowerPoint, better fixes in Word and Excel, and I'm glad I switched. It gives me easy to reach options to turn off useless information in my browser. Right now, only links and headings, along with shortcut keys, are announced in Firefox for me. As it relates to form fields, NVDA now has support for ARIA placeholder values, which makes knowing the label of a form field much better. I love the elements list, but I also use K and Shift+K to move by links anyway, and NVDA find.
I tried a demo of JAWS a couple days ago, and after I configured it to work like NVDA (that's how deep I'm invested now), I still wasn't satisfied. It kept crashing, some quick keys are not the same, and, it took me several hours just to do all that! Invested in JAWS, nothing is wrong with that, I think how invested you are in the screen reader is the big deal.

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87

Still don't get the purpose of the links list. It was taught when I was learning Jaws, I think I read the ins+h or ins+f1 or something for IE, so I was very aware of it, and had no contact with other Jaws users for, like, 5 years, and the subject never came up... It was always more annoying than useful, back when ins+f6 was a way to get to the desktop, since sometimes I'd hit f7 by mistake. Apparently it's good for something, otherwise it wouldn't be included, but I don't get it.

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88

Hi, @CAE_Jones the purpose of all these elements lists, as I see it is that you can for example open links list on a website with a lot of links and use first letter navigation to find the one you want. As I said I don't use them so there might be more use cases, but this is how I see most people using it. @Rory I've never used a mac and only tried browsing with IPhone, and while rotor is cool on there I don't know why would you need it on a PC. There is an NVDA addon that provides something similar and it's called OBJ pad. It was originally created to make object navigation easier, but when you press NVDA+ctrl+tab there is a Web mode. In there you press right and left arrows to navigate between elements, and up and down arrows to choose the tipe of element you want. Still as I said, much easier on a PC to just press h for heading, k for link and so on.

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89

Adding to this. To start out, i started with JAWS 6 i think? I was around eight years old, and it was okay I guess, but it did slow down the school computer which was on Windows XP. I used different versions of JAWS by itself for about six years or so, until i got a laptop at home and discovered NVDA. I kept using JAWS at school because they didn't let me use NVDA. I had no learning curve though, and have always preferred NVDA. I believe the last full versoin of JAWS I used was 16. It wasn't terrible I guess, just not what I wanted. I didn't feel comfortable with it, and I personally felt that there was just too much to it. There were too many things I didn't need/want. I also needed a screen reader to work on a laptop with 2 gb of ram and 32 gb of storage, and jaws literally couldn't do that. NVDA has worked fine for me. I've used it in school settings, to fix other computers along with mostly narrator to be honest, and I haven't had any problems with the internet. One common complaint i hear about NVDA is that it shows oo many links on one line. My response is usually that that's h ow the screen looks, and if you don't like it, uncheck or check a box in the preferrences and that's it. So, I guess my thoughts are that both screen readers work, but for me, NVDA works better. I am happy we have multiple options though.

"900 years in time and space and I have never met someone who wasn't important." The Doctor.

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90

ok, a big thumbs up to jimmy and orko. they've already said everything i wanted to say. NVDA is a pile of shit.
and ggf. seriously? you think that you don't pay ms for the accessibility? if you seriously think that you should go and do some research because the accessibility is already included in the price weather you notice it or not . so in short. without accessibility the price would go down abit.
and accessibility can't be a human right. do you even know how biznis works? nothing in this world is free and when you make something you need money.

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@90 yeah, perfect example for my post 83. You with so good vocabulary that you can only say insults have nothing to do in a screen reader discussion. How are we paying MS for accessibility? It's included in the price? OK then, sighted people pay for it too so why don't they complain or are you the only one noticing that? With all that still being true, still much much cheaper than jaws.
Best regards from an user of peace of shit called NVDA.

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JAWS and other paid screen readers were developed because there was a need for them so blind people could use computers. That's how you start a business. Determine what the market needs, find a way to make it available, and sell it for profit while also having enough to keep your business going. One reason why JAWS is so expensive is due to the rather small market it's intended for. It's the same with any assistive technology. Yes, it sucks, but it's how it is. That's probably why NVDA was made. Someone got sick of having to pay such a high price just to be abel to use Windows, so they stopped complaining about it and made their own free screen reader. Both NVDA and JAWS have advantages and disadvantages. Why can't we justl eave it at that instead of trying to convince everyone one is better than the other?

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93

wooooooow. insulting someone's vocabulary. nice way to get your point across ass hat.

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94

@JimmyDub haha you say that? Can't even count the number of things you insulted.

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What ever, where is the discusion of crash strings in the page 3 and the page 4?
smile So, this topik can start a flamewar, please treath it with care.

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96 (edited by Socheat 2017-10-03 10:29:08)

Lol guys. If you don't like something, don't install it. It's a wast of your disks space anyway. If you really want to use the computer from the beginning when you first start to set it up, go spend the money on a MacBook, MacBook Air, or a MacBook Pro. That's all I need to say. And note, this is not a flame war or anything, just sayin'.
Thanks for listening.

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97

No question, mac is much better than windows accessibility will ever be as far as narrator goes.

Lawyer by day, vidual anty by night. I am the man with out feer, I am daredevil!

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98

Completely agreed with you.

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