76

Also, Clement, the chipreader was not the top priority. The priority was to make an accessible interface to hundreds of stores that was consistent and clutter-free. The dev could've had people type their info in, but, probably from his experience in programming e-commerce software, he knew that a chipreader is more secure. A wireless version is coming, so you won't have to worry about plugging it in.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up

77

I was told by the CEO that the biggest driving factor behind producing a wireless chip reader is because they also want to release a mobile version of the marketplace software.

Thumbs up

78

Not saying it was or wasn't the priority, I just didn't think that it was necessary, that's all. But if he's spent his time coding e-commerce software, then I have no idea what I'm talking about next to that. I've just never been bothered by entering info, especially since most of my online shopping accounts have the information saved to begin with.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

79

The less sites that permanently have your card info on file, the better. It's why I, for example, use Paypal whenever I can. Site's getting paypal tokens is more secure. Although that's kind of what chip cards are for since your number isn't passed on, just a single-use unique key. Although, having a reader insures that the computer can't even store the info in encrypted form on your hard drive. If you have a client software for making purchases and it remembers your card info, someone could easily hack away at the decryption of that. Knowing that a software shouldn't remember your card info, I think you'd rather use a reader than have to punch in all that info every single time. And yes, they plan to make the paywithchip software for as many platforms as possible. Windows, Mac, ios, android, and Linux.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up

80

One thing I was wondering is, if they can do this for a website specific   ordeal with the card reader, I'm sure there has to be a way to  be able to  do something with a similar approach using your NFC or Apple Pay for   similar services on other sites, with a more universal setup.

OCR and cards are a different world, and I found the most success for me was putting the card infront of the overhead light source, tilting the card at a decent angle towards me, and then  tipping it slightly to the left.  What this does is darkens the image and the raised numbers catch the light source, giving them an outline.  This essentially gives the card light numbers on a dark background.  I only know this because when I could see, I had to do this just to read the cards with my terrible eyesight, and now that it's gone, it's definitely something useful to think on.   The alternative method would be to put the card under the light, tilted it   beyond a 90 degree where the card faces down nearly, with a light diffusing surface under that   gives enough light to make the numbers stand out.

On a related note, Kenny G got a new saxophone.

Recording artist @ Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available Wherever digital albums are sold.
My YouTube Channel
Drum Covers | Video Game Covers

Thumbs up

81

If the card reader does indeed let you get the standard numeric info from the card which you can then type in to any old form anywhere, I could see an advantage in the system, since manifestly I'd rather not be asking   my bank or someone else to read my card numbers  I don't have to, then again since I've memorised my current card number and it doesn't expire until 2021 it won't be an issue for me for a while, and by the time it is it is entirely possible that either  pay or some other more universal recognition  will be usable more generally, either that or we'll all have some sort of usb card reader anyway.

I've not actually looked into the amazon return policy yet with chrome, hopefully I won't need to for a while, though I will say at least as far as amazon goes  customer service tend to be rather good, one reason I was able to setup an amazon account even though Ie wouldn't work with the thing, so it is entirely possible if I have to return something I might just phone instead, and of course I do wonder if  will be given the ability to handle returns in the future as well.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

82

That would be a nice benefit, or if the cardreader were to be able to be used on sites that could also justify it giving you your card info. They also plan on eventually hooking with reader into voice assistants, so that if you shop with those you can do so with the reader rather than your voice password or what have you.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up

83 (edited by Orko 2018-04-04 13:33:14)

Old school:

First you have to get the information off the card, some of this, such as the CVV, will require sighted assistance, and either memorize or put it in something accessible so it can be refered to later.

Then when you are going to make a purchase, you have a choice, you can enter all your card information, number, expiration date, name on card, billing address including city, state, and zip, or whatever your country uses, and finally the CVV security code, then you can either decide to enter that information every time you make a purchase, or store it on the site as hacker bait.

Chip reader:

When you are ready to make a purchase, you take a few seconds to take your card out of your wallet, if it isn't out already, put it in the chip reader, wait a few seconds for the software to read your card's information, then when the purchase is complete, remove your card from the chip reader and put it back in your wallet or where ever you store it.

No typing in all that information is needed, nor is your card's information stored in the cloud as hacker bait.

Seems like a no brainer to me. I already use PayPal where ever it's accepted to keep my financial information, like card numbers, out of as many hands as possible. But still have to give it to PayPal, the chip reader removes even that requirement.

But the chip reader isn't for everybody, some people like to type and some people don't mind leaving hacker bait all over the place. I can accept that and have no problem with it. Different strokes for different folks.

What I can't and won't accept is when somebody like ironcross32 comes on here and posts derogatory comments like calling the chip reader dumb. Because I like and use it, and support it, calling it dumb is no different from calling me dumb. And there is no need, or call for those kinds of remarks. And besides, such remarks add nothing to the discussion.

I admit I made some bad assumptions about what those who have been blind for most of their life precieve, and for that I have apologized. I am human, and like all humans, do make mistakes.

Thumbs up 0

84

If you want respect, it has to be earned. Show us that you can behave like a human being whenever someone opposes your viewpoint. I don't mince words, me saying the card reader is dumb is not me saying you're dumb, if that's what I wanted to say, I'd have just said it. Was it a bit crude, perhaps, but that's just me, I am not very tactful, I have a big mouth and so forth.

OK, logistically here is the scenario. Now here is why I wouldn't do it for one thing, its not a recommendation for others not to do it, I'm just putting out my scenario. First, I have a laptop, not a desktop, so I can't leave the reader plugged in. I'd have to get it each time, plug it in, then I'd need to get my card out of my wallet, which isn't kept near the computer. In fact, let's say you live in a house where your computer is either on a desk in your living room, or in a spare bedroom, and you keep your wallet on a dresser in your bed room upstairs. Each time you would have to go and get the wallet, or at least get the card out of the wallet, bring it down, use it in the reader, and take it back up. You wouldn't want to store the card just on the desk, as it might fall onto the floor, and you don't want to be scrambling to look for it when you need to go out. So, unless you wanted to store your wallet on the desk, which again, same thing might happen, then every time you want to make a purchase, you have to go and get the card.

Of course it is more secure, it alleviates typing, that's not in question, its just a convenience factor.

I'm a cat! What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine to :P XD

Thumbs up +1

85 (edited by Orko 2018-04-04 15:04:59)

The same is true in reverse, if you want respect from me you have to earn it, and being crude, and rude, is not the way to do it. I only respond the way I did when I feel I'm being disrespected or insulted, as I thought you were doing when you called something I like and support dumb.

If you want respect, you need to learn to not be, as you put it, tactless, and have a big mouth. I've seen you receive a number of moderation warnings over the months, so don't act so innocent and above reproach, because you're not, you're as guilty as I am.

I can see your point about having to go somewhere else to get your card, for me, I live by myself in a one bedroom apartment. the dining room is set up as my home office, and I keep my pocket fluff on top of the refridgerator, so my wallet with my card is only a couple of steps away from my computer. On top of that if I am sitting down at my computer with the intention of doing some online shopping, I take my card out of my wallet before I sit down, so I already have it with me. Like you, my computer is also a laptop so I don't keep the chip reader plugged in, but I do leave it out, near the computer, but pushed out of the way, all I have to do is grab its cord and plug it in, it takes only seconds.

So in comparison, the chip reader is far more convenient for me than it is for you, thus our differing opinions of of the idea, but either way, I hardly believe that that qualifies it as a dumb idea, its just not for you.

Thumbs up 0

86

The Irony I see in this is talking about security information  for your credit/debit card and banking information and being "more secure" by using PayPal, a service that gets your information from where? your bank.

As far as I'm concerned,  Using Paypal is no different than saying "hey man, do me a favor, take my credit card to  the store and buy me a couple of things, I'd appreciate it".

It's worth noting that I am not saying  it's insecure or not, it's just  the same logic and I've been a Paypal user since  once upon a time ago, and have had no problems there, or any other website I've shopped at, accessible or no.  I'm also aware that  you don't exactly have to enter card information  on  PayPal purchases, but if you really think about it,  You  really aren't any secure taking that rout, since your bank information is stored on PayPal's servers, which is no different than storing it on  Amazon, Google, or anywhere else for that matter.

Just a thought. lol.  Plus I don't really think anyone is right or wrong in the way they do things, it's like I said before, as long as the results are satisfactory for the user, who really cares.

Recording artist @ Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available Wherever digital albums are sold.
My YouTube Channel
Drum Covers | Video Game Covers

Thumbs up

87 (edited by Orko 2018-04-04 15:53:39)

I agree with you about using PayPal being no more secure than storing your credit or debit card on sites like Amazon and other retail shopping sites, except that if you use PayPal whenever you can, you reduce the number of places you have your bank account or credit or debit card information stored, and that at least has to help, even if only a little, improve security.

I myself have been a PayPal user almost from the day they started, I started using them back in 2000 when about the only place that used them was eBay. And, like you, I have never had a problem with them despite all the horror stories floating around about them. Nor will I stop using them just because I'm now using the PayByChip marketplace, there are other sites with products I might want that aren't part of the marketplace, I'll need a way to pay them when I buy something from them.

Thumbs up

88

Moderation!

For goodness sake! Orko, Ironcross, can we pleeeeease! give it a rest, indeed I'll admit the only reason I'm not handing out warnings or worse here is that I've been working all afternoon and am feeling frazzled and my judgement may be off.
I'm actually tempted to do with you two what I did once with a couple of younger members who just kept going at each other!

I banned both of them, and promised to lift the ban once I received emails from both each telling  me that the two of them had been in contact with each other and each had apologized to the other.

yes, I treated them both like children, and right now I'm afraid that is rather how things are feeling here, and I'm tempted to do it again!

Can we please get rid of this "what you like is dum!" "don't call what I like dum!" "he's disrespecting me, so I'm telling" mmallarchy and actually act like adults for once!

Okay, deep breath, moderation hat coming off.

I will confess I'm a bit irritated with paypal. It used to be a very minimal charge to use your credit card on paypal, like about one pound if you spent 50.
Its since crept up, and when I was starting to get three and four pound charges on a fourty pound bill, enough was enough.

i'd much rather not! have my bank account online anywhere,  paypal's charges have forced me into it which is not a good thing, the money grubbing scuzbags!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

89 (edited by Orko 2018-04-04 21:35:40)

[wow]! You mean PayPal charges you to make a purchase using your credit card? That's ridiculous! Over here the only people who get charged are the people or company receiving the money in the transaction.

I currently have both my bank account and debit card on PayPal, that's only because it's required to sell on eBay and I still do that on occasion, otherwise I'd have deleted both from there years ago and canceled my account with them too, you don't have to have any of that to be able to use PayPal to make purchases. Once I decide I'm done selling on eBay, I will delete everything from there.

Thumbs up

90

If you banned me, it would have to be permanent, because I do not apologize for how I am.

I'm a cat! What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine to :P XD

Thumbs up +1

91

But I will. I know I'm not perfect and am willing to admit my mistakes and apologize for them.

Thumbs up

92

Hmm. I know it charges a fee if you want to send someone money using a card or PayPal credit using the send to friends and family option. It doesn't if you use your bank account or your PayPal balance.

Thumbs up

93

The problem I have with this Pay With Chip marketplace is that it sounds too good to be true.

It's a one man operation that basically just popped out of nowhere. Where is this guy getting the money to send out thousands of card readers? Where are the card readers even coming from? Are they trustworthy?

Even if he gets a commission for each purchase made from the marketplace, I highly doubt that would be enough to offset the cost of constantly stocking these things and not charging a fee for them.

Also, wouldn't he have to pay in order to use the API that the marketplace uses? That can't be cheap, especially if he intends to keep expanding the service.

I would hate for a bunch of people to come to rely on this, only to have it flop in a year or so due to lack of funds. I could see some blind people who aren't tech savvy completely depending on it, and we all know how resistant to change some people are. They would have to completely relearn how to use the shopping websites again.

I really like the idea, I just don't know how trustworthy it is, since I can't imagine these card readers are cheap, and besides, I really don't see how one person can keep up with a project this big. I don't think I would have alarm bells going off in my head if there was a fee to use the service, and if you  had to pay for the reader itself.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

Thumbs up

94 (edited by Orko 2018-04-04 21:38:03)

How do you know it's only one person? What is your source of information? If you have questions, go to their web site and ask them? At least for me, they have been very open to answering all of mine.

Regarding PayPal, that must be newer than the last time I used a debit or credit card to pay for something with PayPal. Or it isn't and I've simply forgotten that they do that.

Thumbs up

95

Moderation!


I will remind people that being unapologetically  dogmatic about things really isn't a good state for a discussion! forum. Emphasis on the word discussion!

Holding opinions and disagreement is fair enough, but  if someone cannot express their disagreement in a civil manner and refuses to, well moderate their tone it always tends to end badly.

i can think of at least two occasions in the past in which members with a high post record and otherwise good reputation on the forum fell foul of  and wound up being perminantly banned, which is not a good state for anyone, so people please take notice.

Okay, moderation hat coming off.

To answer the question any credit card transactions via paypal tended to have a charge as I remember, both sending money to friends and family and paying for goods or servivces. When I was last at my bank they did say EU  theoretically shouldn't allow a payment agent to charge credit card processing fees if they weren't actually recieving goods under a certain amount, so paypal was probably in error, but whether Paypal have some legal getout, or indeed whether that particular bit of EU legislation has actually been enacted in Britain yet I'm not sure.

either way while its not a situation I like, its one I need to put up with at least for the time being,  while I don't like my bank details being online even somewhere as comparatively secure as Paypal, I like paying stupid amounts of charge fees even less.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

96

I think the website states that it's one person, or it may have been the interview which appeared in this month's edition of The Blind perspective which said that. I'm pretty sure it was the interview, because he did say that he hopes to add more people to his staff in the future. In any case, it does seem like an awful lot for one person to manage, especially for a free service. My intention wasn't to be dogmatic, it was to get a feel for whether this is a company that's going to stick around for while or not. While I technically wouldn't have anything to lose by getting one of these card readers, when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

Thumbs up

97

The Pay With Chip thing seems pretty great, actually.  IT's only issue is lack of prime support.  I, personally, don't have any of the amazon/alexa problems focused in this thread, so, I will continue to use Amazon.  FOr walmart purchases, though totally will use it.  Besides, I wanted the reader.

Thumbs up

98 (edited by jack 2018-04-04 22:23:36)

The supermarket api, from what I hear, is open source. Which means it would be completely free to use. Not sure on the other stores since Amazon is not under that api, considering they're having to jump through some hoops to get categories up and going with that. As for the cardreader, off-the-shelf cardreaders are actually not expensive at all. They're all around 8 to 12 bucks. The wireless one will be home-grown as tat will feature the fingerprint scanner and all, but for now it's very much your standard run-of-the-mill card reader. Believe it or not this stuff is everywhere. If you do have questions they're very much willing to answer them, and they're extremely transparent about what the future could hold. For example, they did say if it became necessary that there may be a small subscription cost. But for now it's free. As for prime not being in the marketplace, I guess they are working around that by potentially hooking the reader into various assistants, so with Alexa you could order something with your card reader.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up

99

Well, that's good to know. I honestly thought these card readers would be pretty cost prohibitive, seeing as how I didn't even know they existed until I read about the site a few days ago. I mean, I guess I figured that small businesses might use such things, but I didn't know they were so widely available. So I'll stand corrected on that point. I think this is something I'm going to look into, just because the Walmart site is notoriously bad with screen reader accessibility, and it would be nice to order some items there every once in awhile.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

Thumbs up

100

Military software and websites use those id-readers all the time, so it's nothing new. The only new thing is the readers that read the chip cards rather than the magnetic ones.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up