2015-08-03 21:42:11 (edited by SoundMUD 2018-11-13 01:48:18)

Hi all,

I open a new topic here to avoid cluttering the CrazyMod topic with questions about SoundRTS. I will edit this first post as often as needed to reflect the current status of the game.

SoundRTS is a real-time strategy audio game.
It is available at: http://jlpo.free.fr/soundrts
(for the latest experimental version, read on)

Here is a very brief version of the current status:

- 1.2 continuous 8 is available for Windows (the download URL is in the development log)
- more details on the development log: https://soundrts.blogspot.fr
- this version is for feedback; it is based on 1.2 alpha 10; moving the project back to 1.2 alpha 9 is an option

Recent commits: https://github.com/soundmud/soundrts/commits/master

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2015-08-03 23:54:26

I dont have is it correctly to post here but... I have one idea and i like to hear think of developer of this game: I might that in sound rts must be added any of diplomatic action. For example pact of non agresion. Only war is born after much time. But with diplomatic this game will be more interested... I hope that you can understand me, becouse english is not my native language...

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2015-08-04 17:41:48

@soundmud:  I've noticed the github version of soundrts is much more stable than 1.1A9.  Assuming there have been a few fixes on github to make it more stable, will these be put into 1.1A10 or at some point in the future?
@Milos:  Considering the only objective there is for multiplayer soundrts is to destroy an enemy, a non-aggression pact wouldn't make much sense.  It could be cool if you could join or leave alliances during the game, if the alliance you're trying to join agrees, but that may cause problems with upgrades as allies share upgrades.  In the end of course it's up to soundmud and whoever else may be developing the game, but what you suggest doesn't really seem like it would belong in an RTS, especially one with games as short as they are in soundrts.

Mammon slept. And the beast reborn spread over the earth and its numbers grew legion. And they proclaimed the times and sacrificed crops unto the fire, with the cunning of foxes. And they built a new world in their own image as promised by the sacred words, and spoke of the beast with their children. Mammon awoke, and lo! it was naught but a follower.
from The Book of Mozilla, 11:9

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2015-08-04 17:59:31

@milos: Yes, it would be interesting. Maybe most of the "diplomatic" interactions would be done from a standard menu, so even players with different languages could play. And maybe AI opponents would do diplomacy too, but with a more "realistic" behavior depending on their character (they would "role play" a character with specific aggressiveness and reliability, while human players usually just want to win the game). What essentially prevents this feature to be added soon is the amount of menus, but maybe the features could be experimented from the console with command line commands. There would be still a lot of work, of course.

Maybe a first lightweight step would be, from the console, commands like "ally 1" to ally with player 1 (just non aggression actually), "enemy 1" to consider player 1 as an enemy, "share_vision 1" to share vision with player 1 (I remember that an enemy can use it to intimidate a cornered enemy by showing the situation for a quick surrender), "unshare_vision 1", "share_units 1" to allow player 1 to control your units and buildings, "unshare_units 1", "give 10,0 1" to give 10 gold and 0 wood to player 1.

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2015-08-04 18:19:17

@aaron77: Thanks for the info. The Github version is the development trunk, and the next update will be based on it, so it will contain the fixes.

The diplomacy commands I have mentioned are present in Warcraft 3 (Starcraft has it too I think), with the addition of "allied_victory" if for some reason you don't plan to share the victory with your allies, or maybe to delay the end of the game, I'm not sure. The AI with "roleplay" behavior is in turn based games like Civilization 4 where you have more time to think. So maybe in this case a pause button would make sense.

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2015-08-04 18:23:03

I'm not familiar with diplomacy in multiplayer RTS games but I have found this article:
http://zeroempires.net/play-diplomacy-aoe/

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2015-08-05 03:52:55

Hmm.  The command line commands you suggest sound interesting.  I can't really say much though, because I rarely ever am lucky enough to find a person to play against.  I twould be nice if you could controll more of the game through the command line interface though, because the alliance screen when there are a lot of players takes a while to navigate through.

It would be nice to press ` before a game and just type the commands in yourself, though I suppose you may encounter a problem when you have lots of players with the same name, for example AI.  What commands are currently available anyway?  I can't find any documentation on the little terminal.

Mammon slept. And the beast reborn spread over the earth and its numbers grew legion. And they proclaimed the times and sacrificed crops unto the fire, with the cunning of foxes. And they built a new world in their own image as promised by the sacred words, and spoke of the beast with their children. Mammon awoke, and lo! it was naught but a follower.
from The Book of Mozilla, 11:9

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2015-08-05 09:14:34

Hi Soundmud!
There is another important feature completely missing. I am talking of making groups wich will move with the same speed so that they will attack together. For example if you sending out 5 knights 5 dragons and 5 archers, they will move on different ways and speed cause dragons are flying and knights are faster than archers. Maybe you could solve it by bringing in keys like control f1 to control f4 to build a group and control shift f1 to f4 to select a group.
You could first send the units wich shall become a group to b1. Then you have to press control f1 to make this units on a square a group and after that you can select this group by control shift f1.
I think it would make the game a little bit more strategic.

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2015-08-05 12:01:14

@aaron77: I'm not happy with the menus either. Maybe submenus could help, and allowing key repeating to avoid repetitive key presses. The names are not a problem because you would use the player number from 1 to n (by order of creation).

Using more the command line might be a bit user unfriendly, but I'm not sure, it might be much better. I don't know what is a good interface because I fear that a menu with all the widgets to navigate is meant for sighted users, but it might be not true if the blind user builds a mental image of the screen.

Here are the console commands in the GitHub version (copy pasted from some commits):
"s 8" sets the speed to 8 times normal speed.
"r" adds 1000 resources of every type to the player.
"a 10 archer" adds 10 archers to the current square.
"a a1 10 archer" adds 10 archers to a1.
"v" triggers victory.

Selecting a map by typing its name (or as a filter) would be better too.

Anyway, since a command line interface is easier to code (more fun to experiment) and maybe even not that bad to use (and more flexible: for example you can set any speed with the console command), it might be a nice way to go.

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2015-08-05 12:21:01

@firefly82: Yes, formations. A concept of group would be required. Units would follow the least mobile unit (naval units and ground units would not be part of the same formation, while aerial units could maneuver with non aerial units). Maybe a coordinator unit could be used. Not sure.

I'm wondering how a group would be disbanded. Maybe the notion of group should be tied to the "move" order. This way, when the order is executed, or if another order is given to a part of this group, the units would be automatically released from the group.

I'm reluctant to use the modified F1 to F4 keys, but maybe it is necessary to access easily to a group. I don't know. And I'll have to check if I can free some keys by replacing some of them with a console command. After all, many of these commands are "cheat code" commands. Not sure yet.

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2015-08-05 12:54:39

Hi Soundmud!
HMM, i think formations would be a little bit more complicate like groups. Formations are a little bit different. Group means that this selected units will stay together and walk the same way. Formation means the line in wich the group is mooving. For example Archers behind the knights. Formations would be very very interesting and strategic! Realy interesting! Cause you would have to know the abilityvalues of the units so you can make better formations. Knights would guard archers so that they could attack from behind. Damn, i like this idea very much!

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2015-08-05 14:06:33

People when talking about units and formation i have one concept for wage war. for example every squad on map have a different terain. For example a1 hils and here archers have a bonuses when defend and attacking. a2 plains here is better a knights a3 forest here have bonuses footman etc what we thinking about this?

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2015-08-05 15:54:13

I think that this group system is not necessary, at least for now.
You can already make groups, put the units on another square or press
control s, and send all the soldiers one square at a time.
Wait then to arrive to the selected square and send them to the next
square on the path, if desired.
About the console idea, I think it's good, but it will be good to add
translations as well, so the users will not need to know
english to use the console.

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2015-08-05 21:38:54

Hi i wont to play sound rts online on serwer are any interested for it?

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2015-08-05 23:31:54

I am running a public server running the latest github version along with the latest beta version of crazymod and crazyambiance.  Really desperate for people to play against, because the AI is starting to become way too easy.
@soundmud: Generally I tend to prefer the command line, but I know most people tend to struggle with it. 
Regarding formations, I personally don't see much of a need for them.  As stated previously, it's not difficult sending in units in different orders to have the units with most hp entering a square first, and the less uh... durable units walking in behind them.  It could be interesting if units didn't always walk at their max speeds, but had configurable speeds or a form of accelleration time so they weren't automatically and immediately running at their fastest speed, but I feel like these settings would only complicate the game.  One aspect of the group concept that interests me is the ability to have a group of soldiers do nothing more than follow another unit, for example having a group of archers following a peasant around as he exploited a goldmine.
Anyway, these are all just my thoughts, and I am really enjoying this discussion. smile

Mammon slept. And the beast reborn spread over the earth and its numbers grew legion. And they proclaimed the times and sacrificed crops unto the fire, with the cunning of foxes. And they built a new world in their own image as promised by the sacred words, and spoke of the beast with their children. Mammon awoke, and lo! it was naught but a follower.
from The Book of Mozilla, 11:9

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2015-08-06 00:07:43

For those wishing to organise online games; someone created a topic on that a while back. We got together and were able to play a number of games successfully. We're always interested in adding more people.
See http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=16331

Brendan
-----
There is one rule above all others for being a man.  Whatever comes, face it on your feet.
@bcs993 on twitter, feel free to follow!

2015-08-06 09:50:40

Hello all! Wow, it is a great idea to have different terrain types Milos. This way we can add more thinking to the game. For example, a catapult wont be the best choice on a forest. I was wondering if walls would be a part of the game some day. We can add in the edge tile on a square to represent literally it's edge. This way we could build walls, and towers to protect the square or group of tiles if the case may be. The way the game is now, it gives the impression that the kingdons or factions don't care for their on units at all. One last thing. Is there a way to add more resources to a modified version of the game? I mean. I know the game as it is is based on Warcraft, but it would be cool if, for example, we can add in different metal types to use as a requirement or an upgrade to the units.
Best regards, Haramir.

The true blind is the one who refuses to see.

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2015-08-06 13:59:00

I don't have the time right now to think about your posts and answer correctly, but I hope to do it in a few days!

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2015-08-06 15:08:59

Good idea for resources Haramir. But resorces like a iron or bronse can use in research for example iron can using for research armour or sword... And i mean that is very better to remove footmen ffrom game and add 2 infantry units like a spearman and swords man...

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2015-08-06 16:11:09

@bcs993 Respecting the resources, of course, you can add to the game many resources as you want. See the example of the stones, included in the game.

Guys, in general, in this topic try to avoid talk about the content of the game, in this, talk about the features of the ... call it RTS engine, like terrains, groups, diplomacy, command, gameplay style, etc.

Crazymod vs vanilla is a very good compare between two contents of the same engine.

well @soundmud About the console, in personal, you've try to avoid use the console commands for play the game itself. For example, have commands for diplomacy is a good solution for experimented players, but you have to put the diplomacy things in a menu (with a not used key like f12 or f11) for these players that aren't comfortable with a console.
Other commands, for example for control units, give orders, buildings, control a group, set speed of a group of unit, aren't good ideas. Because if you implement this the game starts to convert itself on... a thing like a mud, and I guess that it isn't the idea of the game.

For cheats, of course. Delete all keystrokes that are used for enable / disable cheats. And convert it in to a console commands. And of course, enable it only in single player matches. Permit cheats ionline play is a very bad option. For example, AOE give to you an advanced option for enable the cheats on a lan/online play, but any warcraft or any starcraft, enable cheats in online play are unbelievable.

Respect the groups, o yes. Please, enable it, is a very necessary option. Is correct that current you can create pseudo groups separating in a square all the units that you want control, but after give to they a order, you can recover the control of all group, in a fast move.
With groups, for example, fastly you can do  a military group, with only attackers unit for send it to attack the oponent fortress, and other spell group, on that you put your... mages, and manage it to perform a "cast and run" while the military distract the enemy forces.

And... this is for all. @SoundMud remember that in current new alpha, you are including a better positioning 3d system, with tthe subsquares, and the range of the units.

FOr now, this is all ¡thanks for creating this topic! With that definitedly the content and the features of the game are separated things!
You do a very, very good job creating that excellent modular system!

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2015-08-06 18:57:09

subquares?  I haven't seen anything about them apart from an issue submitted to github.  I wasn't aware anything was actually being done, but if so, that would be really awesome.
I don't know about soundrts itself, but towers built on paths act as walls in crazymod.  I am assuming it is the same in the stock soundrts experience.

Mammon slept. And the beast reborn spread over the earth and its numbers grew legion. And they proclaimed the times and sacrificed crops unto the fire, with the cunning of foxes. And they built a new world in their own image as promised by the sacred words, and spoke of the beast with their children. Mammon awoke, and lo! it was naught but a follower.
from The Book of Mozilla, 11:9

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2015-08-17 18:06:06

Terrain is definitely a goal. Not for the next release though. I don't know how existing maps will be adapted. Terrain would be defined for a square or maybe for each sub-square. Not sure yet.
@Haramir: Walls and gates will be in the next release.
@sanslash332: cheats only work for games with one human player (or it's a bug)

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2015-08-17 19:31:02

Very good news! Thanks for keeping us informed. I'm waiting for the next update to come.
Best regards, Haramir.

The true blind is the one who refuses to see.

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2015-08-18 00:29:15

Soundmud, good luck for working on new version...

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2016-05-08 18:44:05

- SoundRTS 1.2 alpha 10 is available
- more details there: http://soundrts.blogspot.fr/2016/05/log … eased.html
- this version is probably unstable; more polished versions might come soon

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