2015-02-28 19:13:07

Stewie, yep unfortunately this is in a lot of cases how it works. The audiogames.net community isn't all that bad; there are a lot of kind harted, supportive, great people here. So many, in fact, that I couldn't list all their names. But when you have two people, who are ferm on opposing positions, and at least one or both of them postss their posts with negative connotations, those are the ingredients for such flame wars or whatever these are. Heck, it could even just be one or more parties of the conflict's bad day that they take out on others--but who am I to judge?

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2015-02-28 19:15:07

I agree, that's kind of what I was pointing out. I kind of wish someone would draw this to the attention of Dark or something.

Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.

2015-02-28 19:23:54

I actually hope it doesn't have to get to that. I just hope that this is all done and the topic can just die off now. I seriously just hope that Ukio got the info he needed.

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2015-03-01 02:11:26

Hi.
@Severestormsteve, yeah you have changed a lot. I'll just come right out and admit it when I first started seeing your posts I didn't like you at all but over time you've become a really cool dude.
@Ethin, there is not much left to say but you know all you can do is post your advice. Whether people follow your advice or camlorn's shouldn't matter to you so much because either way you got your opinion out there.
You know different people are experts in all kinds of things. I myself know very little about computers other than how to use them. I do know a lot about police investigations because I love things like that so much. I don't mean to brag but I'm an expert in criminal investagations and procedures. All I'm trying to say is that even if you know a lot about something you can be wrong sometimes and there's nothing wrong with that.
@Camlorn, please do not leave this forum we would all be sorry to lose you. Btw, I just wanted to mention I'm a huge fan of your blog I read it all the time.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-03-01 02:45:40

Yeah me too, though sometimes I get lost when reading it lol.

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2015-03-01 04:23:18

Heh. I need to update the blog with stuff.  Unfortunately, college basically sucks all my energy and motivation, though ironically this doesn't include time.  The ironic bit is that the post I've had on the back burner for about 2 months now is SSE, which is a low-level but significant tool for mathematical optimization in DSP (read: 3d audio) applications.  I try not to blog about audiogames anymore because that's incredibly blind-specific and can hurt you in the wider sighted world, but I do want to do a quite lengthy series on how Libaudioverse works and I'm considering some game math tutorials aimed at the visually impaired (it's easy. Really. Just no one explains it with those apocryphal thousand words in place of the picture).
I'm not leaving.  I just got to the point where I didn't care if what I had to say meant that I needed to leave after saying it, for the simple reason that this keeps happening.  Over and over.  I try not to throw fuel on the fire; these situations are really unpredictable and coming out and saying "I really do have a problem with this" as I did in post 39 can often make a bad situation worse, not better.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-01 06:13:00

Camlorn:
yeah I get that about the blogging thing. I have been at it for years now, and for me to sit down and write a post takes about 45 minutes, because I edit it to make it sound well written and not sloppy. But factor in the length of your blog posts which, in some cases is twice the length of mine, then I really see.
Also note: your blog is your blog, meaning you can put anything and everything there you want to. My method is to blog whatever comes to my mind; I've created it for me. not my visitors.
Now for you it might be a different story, you might have created this because you want other people to view and learn from your blog. If so, keep up with what you're doing. it's great, to say the least.

  As for debates like this, if you see a post that starts to look remotely aimed at you personally in a negative way, if you're blind:
hit the h key.
if you're sighted:
scroll, scroll, and scroll some more.
Don't let it work you up. Just toss out your advice, and people are bound to follow it. If some one wants to have a civilized discussion with you, but they are wrong about one of their points, go ahead and correct them. But don't let people who insult you on here affect you. That's the great thing with text: you can ignore it.
  In the past I've failed to follow this, but recently have become better at it: if it's something that spikes my anger out of control, I don't post. if it's something like this thread, where I have something simi-negative but not flaming to say, I will post that.

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2015-03-02 09:34:20

Hello Everyone.
I'm curious what is a kernel? I looked it up and it says it's an operating system that handles input/output. So I'm guessing a kernel of an operating system would be it's core programming is that correct? A while back I was reading about android and it said that android is made from a modifyed linux kernel. So the way I understand it if I had a linux kernel and added some features this would be messing with the core programming of linux?
I only ask because somebody was talking about kernel earlier and it got me wonering.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-03-02 16:28:59

Yeah, basically, though the definition varies depending on the operating system and literature in question.  Some make the kernel do everything (I believe Linux is one of these), others make the kernel pass messages or something along those lines and make everything programs.  It's hard to define explicitly where the kernel is supposed to stop, but it's what starts after the bootloader (unless your definition of kernel includes the bootloader) and it provides the minimal services needed to run something meaningful at all.
Windows internals is a good but very, very long 2-volume book on how Windows does all this, so that might be a place to go if you're interested in how all this kind of stuff works in practice.
and yes, basing your OS off a Linux kernel is going to involve some very hardcore Linux programming.

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Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-02 21:22:36

From what I've learned, messing with the Linux kernel is going to be one of the most difficult things you will ever do. Writing an OS kernel is about 2,000 times harder. The Linux kernel is about 100-200 MB, and its completely ridiculus. They seriously need to re-write the Linux kernel and make it way smaller.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-03-03 01:10:34

Hi.
@Ethin, are you going to rewrite your os kernel?
@Camlorn, thanks I'm not ready to write my own os or anything like that lol. But I find this sort of thing fascinating. Maybe someday in the far future I will write my own os but I can't imagine what I could do that hasn't already been done.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-03-03 01:41:20

Which is why none of us do it, or at least get far.  Mostly you're stopped at "I need a speech synthesizer" as a blind person, anyway.  You can do stuff that gets it off the ground, but if you ever want to boot on a real machine you have to solve the audio problem first.  And it is huge.
I've never seriously tried, simply because getting to the point of even being able to write a file to disk is a hugely big project.  It's a waste of time to actually write it for any reason other than learning, but learning about it is interesting.  Getting to the point of something actually useful is probably on the order of 40k lines of code.  Getting to the point of actually competing with Windows or any of the other big OSes is probably on the order of 200k or 300k lines of code plus bunches and bunches of device drivers that you'd have to hack together from basically zero information because people like Nvidia don't care about your project.
So yeah, go write the next Swamp instead.

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Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-03 02:23:31

Lol swamp OS sounds like a cool but weird name for an operating system. I know that there are a few systems that got beaten out by apple and windows amigaOS and solaris which seems too bad to just give up on all that hard work.
I think like you said all these companies who already have there own OS's combined are just too much to compete with.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-03-03 03:49:24 (edited by Ethin 2015-03-03 03:50:09)

@guitarman, I do not know if I'll ever rewrite the kernel. It took sooooooo much time to set up GCC and then write the code that I might forget the project altogether. I might do it again, if I get enough encouragement from everyone on this forum, and people are willing to support me, no matter my reputation. I'll need all of you on this forum who know how to code in C to help me, as I have never done this before and succeeded.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-03-03 04:15:02

This forum, with all the knowledge it has, will not come close to what you need.  Setting up GCC is literally the absolutely easiest part of the project.  By an order of magnitude.  If you really want to do it and get past something that is only for personal learning, start by reading all the Intel manuals cover to cover.  Then go figure out what the minimum set of services you're going to need to have to get Espeak working is: audio, file i/o, console i/o, possibly loading of dynamic libraries but you can probably put that off.  Part of this process is going to be the implementation or porting of the entirety of the  C standard library to your platform.  Note that trying to leave threading support for later will probably make implementing threads nearly impossible.
If you're dead set on it, you'll also want to get instructions on how to get a VM that can give you readable character mode output.  There are a few blind people around here who have done it, and I have met exactly one blind person who actually had a booting OS kernel with accessible output via a VM.  Unfortunately, I do not know how to find him again.
Alternatively, just download the stuff related to this educational OS from MIT and save all that time.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-03 05:12:18

Hi Ethin.
Well if your looking for a pat on the back I wouldn't expect to much. If you really want to build an operating system you should do it for yourself. The reason I say this is because all the support from this forum won't help you get the job done faster or better. I would love to see what you come up with but like I said build it for yourself.
I know when I start developing games I will do it for everybody but I will make games that will entertain me first.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-03-03 16:55:42

Well yeah, guitarman. It's best, actually, to put your intertainment first before everyone else's when it comes to audiogame development: in other words, drop the project all together if coding it starts to feel like more of an oblegation than a fun little hobby that brings joy to you.

  Oh and if you'd need help with purebasic, go ahead and shoot me an email or a pm, because I can seriously help you with it if you need. To me, coding games in pb takes a greater number of lines than it would in bgt, but you're less limited to what you can do and the sintax is easier for me to understand. That is not to discredit bgt: a lot of the features that come built into that game engine that you don't even have to code, are very useful and handy. If you do it in bgt, you'll have to code your own menues, your own AI... just giving you the honest truth. Even ask danny, he can attest to this. But still, once you grab the hang of it, you can produce something just as powerful, or even more powerful in fact, than dm, or my racing game, or snow race.

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2015-03-04 04:28:31

Um, in the coding world when someone is attempting a project like this, one does not make it solo. In fact, if it wasn't for collaboration linux wouldn't be here, and any mainstream project really. So that seemed kind of insensitive. Sorry, maybe it just seems to me to be that way.

This is not a signature.

2015-03-04 04:35:56

Hi Dhruv.
I'm confused what post did you find insensitive? If it was mine I only said it to be helpful.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-03-04 04:48:34

Yeah, so am I.  No one is saying that he has to do it solo, if he does it.  All I've said is that the expertise is not to be found here.  If you don't believe me, go download the commentary for Xv6 on that page I linked; a particularly good place to start is appendix b, a description of the bootloader.  Xv6 is for educational purposes and weighs in near 10k lines.  I don't think it even has shared library support.  Not sure what its filesystem is, but probably simple made-up for our class version 1.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-04 05:01:07

Is there a script to compile all of the tools you need for XV6? I'd rather ahve the computer do it itself then do it by hand. I tried writing one by hand but it epically failed.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-03-04 06:28:13

Well, it's got a makefile already.  Assuming you have a fully functional Gcc toolchain, you should be able to just run make.  Any other dependencies will be in the readme or the commentary.  I'm not sure what tools you're trying to compile by hand, as the repository I clonedd doesn't have any.  The output of the makefile should be an image of some sort, and there should be directions for running it in a VM or enough info to make your own directions either in the source's readme or the commentary.
beyond that, I have no idea, but actually building it looked fairly simple: get Gcc toolchain and make sure it's not on a Mac, run Gcc toolchain.

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Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-04 15:53:48 (edited by Ethin 2015-03-04 15:54:34)

No, Camlorn. I want a script to build the toolchain: the GCC cross-compiler. There used to be one but it is no longer available.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-03-04 19:59:01

When I read the directions, it said you only need the cross-compiler on a mac, though MinGW probably doesn't work quite right because it's trying to do windows executables.  Just install VMWare player and build a Linux virtual machine and go from there.
I'm not going to try to do this myself, therefore I'm not going to be able to provide you detailed instructions.  If you haven't seen here, set up a Linux VM and follow their directions.  This is the easiest part of the process, at least if you're actually going to try to modify the Xv6 source code.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-03-04 23:49:45

Could Cygwin do it for me? I don't want a VM because it bogs down my machine - I prefer bare metal compared to a VM. Ah well, I'll try writing my script again.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github