2015-02-28 03:51:44

I'm glad that someone is finally with me on this matter.
One think I'd like to say is this: Do not judge someone by their reputation. Judge them by their actions and how they act towards others. Camlorn is not the God of Knowledge and everyone should know that. He only knows so much. Hell, I probably know more things then he, as I have written an OS kernel and he probably hasn't. It never got very far, as I had no idea if it booted or not. I've lost the source code, so am Unable to retrieve it, but yeah.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2015-02-28 03:54:51

That's true. But with over 1000 posts, camlorn's clearly helped more people than you at this point, so that's why people look to him. You're right, that perhaps people shouldn't be judged by their past, but unfortunately most people would disagree with that.

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2015-02-28 03:56:03

Yes, you are right. However, Cenderman has over 10,000 posts. Does that mean he's helped more people? Probably not. His posts are just another number. So is user karma. Its the actions towards others and how they act towards thegeneral public that counts.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2015-02-28 03:59:52

Yeah. But, Sender hasn't been active in god knows how long and if he has, I never hear what he's posted or about his reputation. with Camlorn, it's different: you always, see him in the developers room, always showing off his tech knolege. Unfortunately, and this is not an insult to your character, you have been involved is several flame wars, and that might make people weary to follow your advice. People can change, however, and as a result other people's impressions of them can do the same. You're by no means a bad person, but some of the posts you've written have been on the harsh side, and that might drop your credibility some.

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2015-02-28 04:01:13

I understand that, Severestormsteve1. However, have you thought about the posibility that Camlorn ahs been involved in many Flame wars as well? I'm sure he has; no one can avoid flame wars forever.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2015-02-28 04:04:06

I'm quite sure he has. He stands ferm in his positions and I'm sure that's caused him some flame wars. But he's almost always the first to help in most programming situations.

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2015-02-28 04:08:13

Exactly, which eliminates my use, doesn't it? I always try to help, but everyone takes  Camlorn advice as the only truth and never uses mine. This is why I get angry with Camlorn a lot. Its because everyone takes his advice and his advice only and never uses my advice seriously.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-02-28 04:11:03

Meh yeah. and what good, I ask, does it to help people then? If they always take Camlorn's side on something, then you may as well not post; not because your word isn't worth reading, but because if they aren't gonna listen, whatever whatever. And when you do post, and Camlorn decides to post something over it, that's his problem, I guess. Just keep doing your thing and perhaps one day people will listen. Do that which you're actually passionant about: developing my racing game, I love doing it, and I literally wouldn't be discouraged if no one decided to play it.

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2015-02-28 04:13:46

Maybe your right. As I said to Danny over Skype (and I don't mean to be rude), Camlorn just needs to learn to shut his trap and be quite for once. If no one's going to listen to me, why should I even be on the forum? I shouldn't be if someone's going to literally be there and say, "No, your wrong. Here's exactly how to do it and follow only my advice because I'm the ultimate god of knowledge and computers."

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-02-28 04:15:54

Yeah. And indeed that can get overly annoying. But again. whatever. you can be the bigger person, and know that you don't have to five-up everyone else to make yourself the apex of the world of computer knolege.

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2015-02-28 04:16:47

I don't intend to. I just want my voice to be heard over the noise and the racket.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-02-28 04:18:03

So do I, at times, but when I know it can't be then I just keep my valuable thoughts (given I have any) to myself. If people wanted it, then you should've listened earlier when I was trying to voice it.

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2015-02-28 04:18:49

Yeah.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2015-02-28 05:34:59

First, as I read it, you're contradicting me.  I did not say 32-bit after you said 64-bit.  You didn't come in on that issue before I did.
Second, if you have written an OS kernel but it never booted, you have not written an OS kernel.  Having written software implies that it worked.  This is pretty unarguable.  Also, if you had written an OS kernel, you'd know why 64-bit pointers on the x86 architecture have to be 8 bytes.
Third, my first post contradicting you was not the size of a book or really even that long.  We only kept going because you kept making errors, and I'm sorry but you can't claim knowledge on an issue if you're going to go as far as to make factual errors in the same post you use to outright call the other person a liar.
And fourth, I think it's time for some bluntness.  I don't care if this backfires because, honestly, it's threads like this one that make me want to leave this forum and not look back.  I have been being polite on this issue for a very, very long time.  I don't think that you guys realize how exasperating this is from my end of it.  I have more knowledge on this topic.  Anyone with more knowledge than me would agree with this statement.  In order for Ethin to have been programming for as long as I have, he would have had to have been doing it since he was 5 (the collaboration thread has your age).  I have had the opportunity to go through college.  I do not pull the things I have to say out of the air, and I can usually back them up with links to sources and other articles.  And yet somehow this keeps getting turned into me somehow claiming superior intelligence or something.  I'm sorry, but that's not how this kind of thing works.  I'm 23.  I've had more experience.  When Ethin is 23, he might be way further along than I am.
I commented further here because there are errors in what Ethin says.  We are programers.  When another programmer tries to say something which is correct only if half the relevant facts are left out, I'm going to add them.  If I am attacking anything, it is the information under discussion.
I will close by saying this.  If I did not know more than Ethin, he would spend a lot more time attacking my information, possibly by providing links that prove me wrong.  It is very easy to do so if the other person is wrong.  Instead, the attacks are almost always aimed at me as a person.

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2015-02-28 05:54:04 (edited by defender 2015-02-28 06:18:54)

Former trolls consoling and defending current trolls after they get rightfully told off for trolling?  Gag me with a spoon!  What has the damned world come too?


It's like a two man rebel uprising against not saying unhelpful and unasked for things in the most arrogant way possible on every topic that has nothing to do with you!


Good luck finding those who are willing to agree with you though, anyone that looks at Ethin's posts for long isn't going to be very understanding of the hole he desperately keeps trying to dig him self, nor how he almost always rubs everyone the wrong way the instant he starts discussing something.


It's true that you can't just judge someone fully on what they do in the present and not even take into account what they do in the future, which is why no one is really upset with Steve any more even though he was pretty much just as bad as Ethin for a bit a few months ago, probably stress or something, but I certainly don't hold a grudge, however telling Ethin that what he's doing is even slightly okay, is silly to me, because it just strengthens his attitude, which, amusingly, is the same exact one that he is accusing Camlern of, but worse, since Camlern actually knows what he's talking about and doesn't throw fits to gain attention.


This is getting really, really annoying, all I can say is, sorry Camlern, I'd say that like, 80 percent of us don't think your a know it all what so ever, and of the other 20 percent, most probably don't care enough to find out your not and just judge from 1 post, but don't really mind either way.


If Ethin comes back and does the same thing as Steve has in a while, you know, starts actually programming stuff, or at least attempting too, or even just not starting flame wars left and right and getting on almost everyone's nerves while actually helping people now and then, then I think people will be happy to accept him back, but for as long as I've known him, which admittedly hasn't been for very long or closely, he's been like this at every turn.

2015-02-28 06:17:36 (edited by Ethin 2015-02-28 06:18:02)

I do not throw fits to game attention, defender. It sounds to me on post 40 like you threw a fit right there. I'm not going to comment about that post.
@Camlorn, I see. I don't want you to leave. I just want myself to be heard, but when people like Defender over there keep saying negative things about me, it kind of dims your outside self.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-02-28 06:20:15

If you want your self to be heard, then learn what to say that won't piss everyone off before you say it, and everyone will listen.

2015-02-28 08:12:32

Look Defender. Because of what you wrote in the second part of your post I have nothing negative to say to you.
  I don't myself think Camlorn's a know it all, or that when Ethin posts flaming posts it's OK. What I'm trying to tell him is, if he thinks no one is listening to him, to not try and drag it out and rather move on with his life so that topics such as these won't spiral out of hand.
  The reason I haven't been as bad as I was a few months ago can be discussed between me and you through private message if you'd like. But yes I have changed, in that I'm not really up for going on heavily flaming rampage rants such as I was abliged to do a few months ago. But as you said, a former troll. I was but am not so much now. And I'm by no means calling Ethin's flaming posts acceptable, just trying to give him advice, while also not explisitly stating that he's "silly and wrong"

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2015-02-28 11:31:23 (edited by defender 2015-02-28 11:33:02)

Well you weren't really that bad compared to some, or for very long or anything anyway, and I see what your trying to do, but the problem is that Ethin's ego is so gigantic, that, not once in the many, many times he's been told off for doing this exact kind of stuff all over the internet, has he ever actually stopped for very long, so I tend to believe that he's going to have to come to it on his own which, is fine, most people have to do that for something or other, but I am really tired of putting up with it again and again in the mean time, and seeing him stomp all over other people or just turn them off of a good discussion or start them raging instead of listening.

2015-02-28 11:41:29

@ethin. I post advice all the time about my development, and what advice I have to give. Camlorn most likely has a better methid of doing it than I do. I don't complain, because as far as I cair. I already gave my helping hand, if you choose to follow camlorn's advice, go ahead. I don't really understand why you are so upset. You've gotten your point out, you've gotten your advice said, camlorn got his advice said. You don't need to be above him, and honestly, the way you've been acting is making me really ashamed to even keep you on the administration staff for dmnb and reality software, as much as i'm thankful for everything you've done for us.

Check out the new reality software site. http://realitysoftware.noip.us

2015-02-28 14:25:06

I, myself, just get the programming information I require from the topic in question and then leave. Call me an insensitive bastard if you must, but that seems to be the best way to avoid these kind of situations...
I'll help out. I'll post what info I have. If someone comes along and he/she posts something that is literally wrong, i'll correct him. If he/she has opinions, i'll respect them and just say that you should pick whichever you like better. But I would never, ever, fight on topics like this. Ethin, if camlorn posted something and people liked your solution better, they'd pick it. It's nothing to do with being the "god of programming" or "reputation" whatever it is. It is the competition in code. On this situation, keep in mind that the audiogames community is already small enough as it is, and he soely recommended 32 bit, I believe, because other than the fact that people mostly have 32 bit computers yet, due to the fact that most people who have bought computers who are on here have bought their computers before like 2011-12, and 64 bit wasn't popular then. Also, 32 bit runs on 64 bit processors as well, so that's why he's advising it. I understand you might have problems because of other topics like this, but if you want to get out of camlorn's shadow..try to write better code, give more help, and just try to be more sivvel. You have to admit you haven't been the most polite person while discussing this.
Please don't take offense if you're going to, it's just my 2 thoughts and i just want to see the forum be a safe haven for new programmers who want to learn something from the more experienced, be it you ethin, or camlorn. I think if some new programmer saw this topic and read it top from bottom they wouldn't be too impressed, wouldn't you agree? smile

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2015-02-28 18:38:27

@Danny, I've told this to you a million times, a million different ways, over Skype. I was being extremely polite when addressing my differences from post 24 onwards. I don't see how you can't notice that. I'm not happy for what I did to Camlorn, because I'm starting to understand him better. I will be sending him a PM soon. When I will is unknown to me, but I will probably send it immediately after I finish this post - although he probably won't receive it immediately.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-02-28 18:53:07

@Camlorn, check your PM.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-02-28 18:54:56 (edited by The Dwarfer 2015-02-28 18:57:25)

It's true that perhaps I tend to get involved in conflicted topics such as this where I didn't really belong. But I just thought I'd try to step in here and see if I could do anything... yeah. But my intentions certainly wern't as they were in previous topics like that huge fight that broke out in November or something.
  It's just not so ffun to me any more. Especially when I know I could be spending my time on the computer doing better things such as programming my game, playing other games, blogging, etc. I mean, as much as I hate to say this, getting involved into these conflicts is just, like a drunken rage. You feel the high when you're flaming some one, and get madder when some one else flames you. Meh, meh, meh.

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2015-02-28 19:08:32 (edited by stewie 2015-02-28 19:14:10)

Mortal Kombat.

Round 1. Camlorn vs Ethin. Fight.

Oh wait, this isn't about Mortal Kombat or conflict? Wow, what an odd concept. I can imagine a forum where pointless redundant arguments don't consume the original topic's point. this is a fundamentally difficult to understand concept, but I'm sure that understanding can be achieved with sufficient time (IE: More than 5 seconds of thought put into it.)

Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.