2015-01-15 16:59:40

Hi there,

Some of you may remember me seeking help a few months back regarding an audio RPG I want to create. I'm basically useless as a programmer at this point.
Now that we're in the new year, I figured I'd try again.

Here are the sort of things I want in my game:
1. Turn-based combat, not real-time combat (think Entombed vs. Shadow Rine, for instance).
2. A full party system for both enemies and allies. Many enemies may be alone, but I want them to be able to cooperate in specific situations (some boss fights, maybe) unless doing so is too large a pain in the tail.
3. Minor map interactivity (which is to say, it's not a platformer full of tricky jumps and deathtraps, but some mazelike elements and environmental hazards would be good).
4. The ability to check stats, use equipment and items both in and out of battle.
5. Screenreader support of some kind, even if it's NVDA because apparently NVDA support is pretty easy. I do intend this primarily as a Windows thing at first, and yes, I would like voice acting eventually, but that can come later.

So, that's what I'm after. If you're working with me, here's what I can provide:

1. Expertise. I won't hand you vague ideas and tell you to make the best of them. I'm all about playtesting, balance and solidity. I have a statistical system that will work if it's implemented properly - and I'm quite sure it can be done - plus I have a very good idea of a storyline. Exact dialogue and numbers can be tweaked as we go.
2. Willingness to learn. Depending on the way this goes forward, I may want to try and learn programming of my own; this way, I might be able to take some of the load off the person or people helping me and contribute on a more direct level.
3. Teamwork. One way or another, I'm going to stay involved and current with the project. I won't abandon you, as a co-developer, and I won't throw you under the bus regarding responsibilities or problems.

Some things I haven't figured out yet:
1. Pricing/compensation. I am flexible on this, but I definitely do not expect to keep all the cash myself if I get significant help from people with the code. It might be my storyline ans systems that drive the game, but it will be your programming skills that made it happen, and I won't lose sight of that.
2. Programming language/method of creation. I am looking for suggestions on this.
3. Complete feature list. I have a ton of ideas, and if I can implement them all we'll be looking at a thirty-plus hour game, probably. It's going to be big, guys. Multiple towns/cities, a sort of overworld map, enemies that appear only by day or by night plus an internalized day-night system, a bestiary with rewards, four spheres of magic, four classes (archetypes based on monk, assassin, paladin and barbarian), flexible storyline to allow for a few key plot choices, superbosses/extra dungeons, secret skills/spells (some just plain hidden, some found by specific methods that are hidden or hinted at), map hazards (pits, deep water to swim through, darkness that will mess with your ability to see the map well, etc)...the list goes on. I don't know if everything will make it, but I'd love to try.

So as you can see, right now we're long on ideas and short on execution. With your help, that can change.

Please write back if you're interested in helping out. At this point, a sort of nuts-and-bolts interface probably needs to be built to test combat, above all else, since combat is going to be the biggest part of the game by and large, and we'll need to make it work before putting everything else in on top of it. I look forward to hearing from you!

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-15 23:10:31

Hello there! Jaide, I'm not the progammer kind neither. But I have a long time experience with both videogames and tabletop rpgs. I can also gladly lend you my voice for a character if needed. So far, my main metod of contributing is playtesting, since you said the plot is already made. I really hope to see more people engaged with this project, we need more rpg titles in the audiogames comunity.
Best regards, Haramir.

The true blind is the one who refuses to see.

2015-01-16 02:13:19

The overarching plot is made, yes...in the sense that I know where the story is going and vaguely how I want to get there. I don't know the ins and outs of every character along the way, and I do intend to have more characters in the game than just your four party members and a villain or three. Heh.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-16 18:54:12

I would also like to play test the game. Although I know Python, I'm not sure how how to code everything you would need for your game.

“Can we be casual in the work of God — casual when the house is on fire, and people are in danger of being burned?” — Duncan Campbell
“There are four things that we ought to do with the Word of God – admit it as the Word of God, commit it to our hearts and minds, submit to it, and transmit it to the world.” — William Wilberforce

2015-01-16 23:27:13

Hi all,

I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I don't need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.

So...what I'm thinking is this:
At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things they're good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.
Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.
Each character's class will be "adventurer" or "novice" early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if they're novices.
I don't really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.
Anyway, you get to a larger area, and you're tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. It's your call who gets which profession. Eventually you'll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.
Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.
At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two final classes depending on your original.
Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.
Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.
Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.
Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.
Brief outline of each class is below.
Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesn't care much about his safety.
Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).
Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.
Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.
Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.
Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.
Monk: Chains barehand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.
Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.

As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.

I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particular playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.

I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you aren't going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You won't be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. That's why I'm seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-17 01:03:15

Coding nightmare? Maybe, depends whose programming.  Most spells and skills are just restrings and changing numbers in a data file, so it depends how good the coder is at pushing complexity out of the code and into the data (in some sense, there's not a word for it and I'm trying not to go way off topic).  In all honesty, I haven't seen too much of that sort of thing in this community.
The problem I see here is that the number of abilities and combinations in question is going to call for an above average to incredibly large set of art resources, and a huge amount of content creation.  I normally say that getting resources is a small part of the project, but you appear to be setting yourself up to prove me very wrong.  Very.  The amount of content you are setting up for means you can probably drop some of it without too much loss, and you can always add more later or even make a second game with the same engine.
As for mechanics, don't force level for anything.  If you feel like you need to force the level, maybe consider the mechanics again.  If I am a skilled player, I should be allowed and able to advance indefinitely; people even find this fun.  If the thing in question here is "either I force the level or the character isn't strong enough", it sounds to me like the combat system relies way too much on random numbers and stats and way too little on me actually figuring out how to do awesome things.  There are a number of directions you can go in to fix it: add elements of timing to  provide bonuses, add elements of planning like elemental affinities that change with casting spells, add elements of working together where if you can set it up so that 2 or 3 characters all do one thing within a turn of each other then something special happens.  Some sighted games with turn based combat put everyone on a small grid, devoting half exclusively to you and half exclusively to the enemy; these games then add range and delay to attacks and allow characters to move during their turns.  There are enough mechanics you can add that you should be able to remove the so-called level gates and/or make it such that the gates are more of a flimsy cardboard wall for a hyper competent player (with most players falling somewhere between).  But if you're just going to force the level, remove grinding all together and make it based off quest completion or something instead.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-01-17 01:15:10

Hi there,

I don't want to force the level. The issue I'm coming up against are skills, spells or bonuses earned by level-up. If I could find a way to get around those, I'd be happy.
I wouldn't want a player to get to novice level 14, then do the bit where they actually pick their main class. Not unless you think it would be easy to have them gain all their bonuses at once as soon as they reclassed. So let's say after level 10, novices stop gaining stats and skills (to make it easy), but let's say the naturalist gains 10HP per level. If a player got to level 14, then became a naturalist, he'd gain 40HP instantly. That would mean you could be at a high level as a novice and you wouldn't miss anything.

I am not at all fond of level gates. When I was later suggesting the class branching at around level 30, that's just a suggestion; what I might do is, let's say, set the higher classes up so that they begin at level 15 or something (a level you're not at all likely to be at by the time you reach the point where you can earn them) and then just apply their bonuses and skills/spells in a lump when the character in question promotes.

I was intending combat to be straight-up turn-based. I don't think I want to go into a grid system, though I might do front and back-row stuff if it comes to that. I definitely thought of combination attacks, both physical and magical, assuming you have people with their turns in a row. Maybe would allow enemies to do the same thing, maybe in certain boss encounters.

Yes, this is a ton of detail...and hell, if it took off, it could very well be used as an engine for multiple games. But there's the rub, I'm not sure if it would get off the ground. Guess that's why I'm here, eh?

One thing I promise not to do is tack on endgame content. Paladin of the Sky shows an example of what I want to avoid in this way; it did many things well, but as far as endgame content it had some issues. I loved some of the bosses, but it got really easy to just grind your way to level 100, and a couple of the bosses basically required it. If you end up finishing the main story around level 60 or 65, let's say, then I'm not going to give you an endgame dungeon where monsters are only 1.2x as hard and give you 4x the experience just so you can rush to level 100. It gives me more room to tweak, unless I want you to fight the last boss nearer to level 100, in which case I have longer to flesh the story out.
Something else to consider: I don't intend for you to level quickly. This game is -definitely going to require some grinding, though mini-quests will also give you experience as well, I'm hoping.

Oh oh. While I'm here, something else I want to include: an alchemy pot.
It's a neat little gadget that can take two items and fuse them into a new one, assuming there is some sort of fusion possible. Two of a particular potion might give a much stronger potion that does the same thing, for instance; a gemstone and a piece of cloth might produce some sort of enchanted cap. It's alchemy, after all. Successful recipes would also give experience, as would bestiary completion, so it's not like you have to kill 999 rats to get to level 22. Grind, yes; grind for sixteen hours to get your next level...not so much.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-17 03:11:42

be warned that you are probably underestimating the level of code reuse here.  The only games that are likely to be made with the engine you end up with are games exactly like yours.  This is why I actually think that releasing engines to this community would be a really bad idea: unless the engine is general beyond belief, the engine isn't actually an engine, it's some preset game mechanics in a can.  You then end up with 50 games that are the same save for the sounds.  There are some more advanced techniques that make the engine more general, one of which I am applying to my current project, but the benefits therein remain to be seen and they don't work so well for turn-based stuff.
Before I go on, I must confess that i came to audiogames through sighted gaming; my vision used to be good enough that I could do it effectively by sending the computer and the console through the same headphones, using the keyboard below the desk with the TV to read walkthroughs on the internet, among other things.  As a consequence, I've played maybe 1% of audiogames, and think that most of the remaining 99% are very, very, very lacking-my measuring stick is the sighted games I've played and beaten (ocarina of time, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, couple others fall into the beaten category).  So anything I say on game mechanics may be...uniquely flavored.
That disclaimer out of the way, however, I don't actually think I've ever found a game with turn-based combat where grinding is actually fun, at least not to me.  All of the games nowadays with turn-based combat and for which people say "play this for the combat system" add gimmicks and play more like an RTS: turn-based combat was very definitely a product of the hardware as far as I can tell.  That's not necessarily a problem, but you'll either have to spice it up with something or you'll have to carry the entire game on the story.  I mentioned limited movement because that seems to be one of the common ways to do it now-we're talking something like a 9-by-3 grid or maybe a 9-by-5 where each party gets a3-by-3 square.  This is not hard in terms of programming; there is basically 0 math involved.  But unless you do something we're back in the era of Final Fantasy VI; unless it's a boss, you pound attack over and over and level strategies include rubber bands to hold buttons down overnight (really, you could do that in Final Fantasy VI).  You absolutely have to do *something*.
My advice for grinding in a turn-based system is to make combat fun somehow.  Then kill the grinding.  Make character bonuses not based on level; make them rewards from doing quests.  This moves the focus from your combat system.  I don't care how good it is-6 hours with it will make it a horrible, horrible thing, and you don't have any online social interaction going on.  You can turn character advancement into equipment, too: it's not about your level, it's about your sword and your ring of power.  You can then move the entire thing over to puzzle solving and world exploration which is better for a single-player RPG, at least in my opinion.  You can get some leeway out of realtime combat--Dark Souls is a good example of this in the sighted world--but even then, you've got to carry it on something else (Dark Souls used, well, a super dark and depressing world and a huge dose of ambiguity and god how I wish I could actually play that game past the first boss to actually experience the story myself).
So maybe the ice spell isn't level 15, it's helping an ice elemental get rid of a fire spirit inside a volcanic dungeon that threatens its habitat, and maybe the fire spell that you wanted to put at level 15 is helping the fire elemental get rid of the same ice spirit that you helped for the ice spell by going into the plane of ice and destroying the portal through which it pulls power-and you can only get one.  And then you add in some plot that makes one obviously good and obviously evil, but when you start reading between the lines or find some other piece of lore or happen to know something specific about how ecosystems or something works in the real world (which you put in that piece of lore for the players who don't) it's suddenly ambiguous who you should side with.  Doesn't this sound way more fun than 5 hours of turn-based combat?
this is where I have to knock my own idea down some-it's also much harder to code an engine that can cope with story and one-off puzzles.  It's also the kind of thing I'd not particularly want to try in BGT-you probably want a level editor that includes scripting, so you're probably going to need lua or something, and I don't believe you can even talk to such things from BGT.  Otherwise, you'll always be at the mercy of the programmer, and hard-coding these one-off quests into your engine instead of into your maps on the scale I am suggesting will just give everyone a headache (was it in quest_behavior_51, quest_behavior_512, or quest_behavior_5218? O no).
Maybe I'm wrong and there's a significant number of people who find vanilla-flavored turn-based combat to be super fun and exciting, but it's certainly a dying breed in the sighted world at least.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-01-17 07:02:27

I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.

Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.
Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say "Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x", whatever x happens to be. You're right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.

If you look at the community though, you'll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed, which was buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasn't used. Then there's Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went "Wow!" when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if it's a strong step forward from what we've seen, it might be worthwhile. I dunno.

I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what I've said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-17 07:27:46 (edited by camlorn 2015-01-17 07:31:10)

Final Fantasy VI was one of the first video games I played, back when I had the vision to (admittedly by literally leaving noseprints on the monitor) read the menus in it.  I do not consider Final Fantasy VI's combat to be good.  I had someone helping with reading the story, and it was for the story (I was like 14) that I actually kept playing.  I can't comment on Chrono Trigger, as I've never played it, but strongly suspect that my reactions to it would be identical-it's not for the combat, it's for the story.
If you look at it from the programming perspective, though, something interesting actually shows up.  Back then, you got to pick one of two things: realtime combat or impressive (for the era) visual effects.  You couldn't really have both.  Even as far forward as early PS2, the turn-based games basically went into incredibly cinematic territory.  But then we reached a point where playing a video game is basically like being in a movie no matter what you do, and even the traditionally turn-based series are warping it and dropping it and adding movement and if you showed it to someone from the era of Final Fantasy VI it would be horrible blasphemy and also awesome at the same time.  I don't think anyone did turn-based combat because they thought it would be a great gameplay style, I think they did turn-based combat because you're trying to run in a couple megs of ram at most and want to have some more impressive graphics.  And then they realized that this was easy to code and it could be all about the story.  But admittedly this is just a pet theory based off my experience with no real evidence.
You probably won't break the right angle passage rule.  This is kind of a hard and fast thing.  If you're on a tile-based grid, you're not going to get rid of the "jagged" edges; this may cause problems.  But really it's that environments have to be simple enough to reason about.
I played Entombed for 5 minutes and touched Paladin of the Sky not at all; this particular type of game isn't for me.  The only way you'd win me is with story.  I can live without voice acting, but the experience shouldn't be grinding in any way.  If I had to make a suggestion, aim for 10 hours of content-anything more really needs a very, very engaging combat system or is going to be a whole lot of story.  It's also funny that you should mention WoW; my current projects (admittedly all useful on their own) are early steps in my long-term plan to get there and do an MMORPG for the blind.
The unfortunate thing is that you're almost certainly going to want the things required for my point about questing in your engine, and this is almost certainly not a game coding task.  Of the coders around here who are of the caliber to give one an engine as opposed to a game, the only one I can't immediately assign a project to is CAE_Jones.  I'm preaching to the choir when I say that this is your immediate obstacle.  Unfortunately this probably isn't a BGT project, not if you want to be able to do simple scripting.  You're going to need the full pipeline: a programmer who handles engine bugs and develops tools, a builder who makes game content including scripts, a story/content/mechanics designer (who is probably you), and a tester.  The less these areas overlap, the better.  My go-to tool is Python, but it doesn't matter-you want Lua or V8/another Javascript engine but V8 is the best bindings, however.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-01-17 10:02:13

My problem with those languages is that you have to do so much work at the beginning just to get the basics of the audio game integrated. It's why I have stuck to bgt even though I know its shortcomings. There's keyboard output and sound and sapi5 support and screen reader support and I do know some of the libraries you can use for those, at least for python. For the screen reader it' accessibleOutput, for the sound it's pygame I think, and for the keyboard, I think pygame controls that too. I'm really not sure how well these function in practice, especially on the audio front. I know pygame only supports pan and volume  ad probably like sample rate changing to simulate pitch, or maybe I'm wrong? There's no hrtf or other 3d audio components like openAl has, but I have only run into problems when trying to figure out and use oepnAl especially under c++. Also the way python does classes really confuses me after using bgt for so long and learning java. And, though I know it is good for me, I am very unhappy about having to indent. I assume, though, that I will have to indent when I program for college, so maybe it's something to get used to.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2015-01-17 15:28:17

Hello,
@jade: I'd be happy for a long game and I really like your setup, as long as there's quite a few quests and things to do along the way, which it sounds like there might be from the way you're setting this up.

2015-01-17 18:50:18

You *can* do most of this in BGT. (*Hides "unfinished" campaign scripting engine for Sengoku Jidai*)
But should you? Eh.

Back in the day, I started using the word "Specificode" in my notes, whenever I'd come up on a game mechanic or feature that looked like it'd either require an annoyingly specific chunk of code or a completely different engine to add. That I made up a word for it should tell you how often the issue comes up when designing something on the order of this project. (Strangely, a quick search of this computer only came up with 3 results, all of which are generic notes files copied from my PACMate.)

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2015-01-17 20:03:49

Yeah, BGT is easier to get going.  Not easiest, but easier.  The amount of code that you have to write to get the window open as compared to the total size of the project being proposed here is a spec of dust in comparison, though.  You can technically write a scripting language in BGT.  But you're going to have to do everything without tools that are pretty standard; no one hand writes parsers anymore for example.
if you go to basically anything mainstream, though, you get Lua, Javascript, Python and a billion other scripting options for free, and all you have to do is add them to your project.  This saves 1000 lines easily, and gives you a ton more stuff than you'd get if you rolled your own.  BGT specifically can't bind function pointers, which means that BGT scripting needs a scripting engine written in Angelscript itself.
And this game wants scripts, it really does.  RPGs are games of special cases, not games of general mechanics.  Shades of doom doesn't need them because the point is that you're shooting monsters, not solving complex puzzles and triggering quests.  But look at Swamp-even something with the complexity of Swamp needs them.  And in terms of levels, this is more complicated still.  Characters need to have motivations and conversation trees, doors need to unlock if you're carrying the magical artifact, walls may need to disappear.  You can't just put this in the engine; that's why I'm being so big on the difference here.  There is a huge difference between a game coder and a game engine coder, and that is that the latter isn't really even writing the game itself.  Without scripting, whoever is writing levels will need to work with the coder at all times.
OpenAL is a horrible thing that I'd not wish on anyone, leaving BGT doesn't lose you that much sound quality at all, and this game isn't about detailed aiming.  In fact, I'd not be surprised if most of the files end up being stereo recordings--why code all that panning stuff in code when the attack itself can just be pre-edited into the final mix?  Nothing is really moving in a game like this, not at all.  I doubt you even need much pitch bending, and if you do you can just make a second file.  This game is not navigationally complex, and it is not platforming.  If really high quality sound becomes a major problem, we can talk about Libaudioverse as I'm probably going to need testers for it in the next month or two.  But I doubt that it will.
@keyIsFull:
The amount of work needed to open the window is constant.  The amount of work needed to write your game is variable.  The amount of work needed to write your game is huge in comparison with the setup code, which you write once and then reuse in all your projects (or just get it from someone--Pyglet gives you an entire main loop, for example, and there's a ton of frameworks that sighted people use that do the same thing).  The mainstream languages make anything complex take half the time because I can just go get code for stuff, say raycasting and 3D math and collision detection.  And the code I get is general enough to work in all my projects, not just one.
As for Python itself, I'm not sure what the difference in its classes is that's giving you so much trouble.  They're basically the same as what BGT is giving you.  We can talk if you want.  Nevertheless, indentation is a very, very good idea for a great number of reasons, up to and including being the easiest way to make sure you stop having those pesky brace mismatches that plagued me for years.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-01-21 20:52:59 (edited by threeblacknoises 2015-01-21 20:54:18)

Hay Jade. i'm glad to see something like this even being thought of, even if it doesn't go anywhere.
I can't program worth a darn, but I'd be more than happy to playtest and give feedback on this, as the world of audiogames needs something like this.Paliden was good in many ways, but I found the magic system to be somewhat flawd.
I really like the idea of having all quests giving EXP.
If quests do give eXP< they should give to all and not just the main character.
I can see how an alchemy system could come in handy, especially if their is an invintory limat.
A few questions for you.
1. Are all characters going to draw from a shared invintory, or is each character going to have his/her own invintory?
2. Would you consider letting the party gain EXP for completing a dungion aside from boss eXP?
This could help with grinding.
3. I've always hated level gates myself, so, would you make it so that class promotions don't reset level?
This would make people not feel like the following.

"If I don't reach lv 15, am I missing out on EXP?"
"am I missing out on skills if I change classes?"


That's just my 2 since worth; as they say.

2015-01-22 02:13:39

I'll try and address your concerns, though not necessarily in order.

1. I'm willing to give exp for dungeon completion, but probably only if you collect all items/chests from that dungeon. Else, you could speedrun it, get next to nothing and get reward atop reward for doing almost nothing out of the ordinary. That said, I'd be happy to give rewards for that sort of thing...and yes, quest/bestiary/alchemy experience would be given to everyone. Probably wouldn't be astronomical (so you wouldn't get ten levels for an exploration bonus in one dungeon), but yes, it would give more incentive to exploring.

Regarding inventory limit, I figure it is probably easier to not force players to micromanage; the party is together, so it would be easy and not really worth mentioning if they sort of juggled the items between them as needed.

Regarding level gates, I don't want to use them if I can avoid it, and I think I can. I'm going to force the player to make choices where they get one of multiple paths, and in that sense they might miss skills or spells, but other than that...no. Going to your next class early shouldn't make you lose skills or spells. If it can be done, I'd like to have it set up where most of your later skills/spells in the class you're going to leave behind are quest-related, oor will be learned by the class you evolve into at the appropriate level. Example: if you're a spiritualist and spiritualists learn Focus at level 26, but you turn into a monk at level 24, it won't matter because a monk will still learn focus at level 26. Conversely, if you wait to become a monk till level 35 and monks learn Choke at level 29, you'd learn it instantly upon promotion.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-22 18:40:53

That's kind of what I was thinking.
If this does get off the ground, I can't wait to playtest it!
Lots of other RPGs do the exploration reward thing, and that would be cool.
Later!

2015-01-25 22:19:46

Hi,
Interesting.
Jade, I'd be quite happy to throw my coding knowledge out there. I've not programmed anything this complex in a while, and as several people have stated, its going to take a lot of prior thought and I probably wouldn't code something like this in BGT. I do have a couple questions.
1. Are you planning to make this cross platform? If so, then we'll want to think about writing an engine in a language such as c++.
2. Do you have any project deadlines? I obviously have other life commitments such as college and the like.
As for game playability, I really love this idea. the most I've seen in an audio game to this effect was paladin, and that didn't stretch to the length of playtime you're talking about.
If you want to contact me privately, my skype is kylecunningham32. Yes, how dangerous, putting it on the forum. As long as you make your intent clear, I won't deny your request. tongue
Thanks,
Kyle.

Underworld Tech.
Accessibility from us, to you.
Visit us

2015-01-26 21:09:52

I have no strict project deadline. I'd like to see it done before, say, 2017 in general, but that's very rough. If it's really good but takes awhile, then oh well.

I was thinking Windows at least at first, which does make things easier. We can think about cross-platform support if it takes off later. Unless, that is, you have a good reason for doing otherwise; if you do, I'll listen.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2015-01-26 21:35:15

Hi,
I'm willing to give this a shot. As I said, I think it has good potential. I was also thinking windows at first, cross platform support requires a little more work and a lot more planning from the coding point of view. PM me or some such with contact details if you want to talk more privately about it.

Underworld Tech.
Accessibility from us, to you.
Visit us

2015-01-27 00:13:01

You aren't going to want to program that in c++. If you'vev tried c++ at all you know that there is a lot to worry aobut especially when it comes to memory management. I would use something that has an automaticacagbage collector. Maybe c sharp or python. Though both of those languages have other downsides. Really you're playing a tradeoff game. Do you want a steeper learning curve or do you want some limitations? The limitations won't really hurt you much but you'll also have to fined libraries that ork with the language you chose which would be hard to do.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2015-01-27 03:06:54

Yeah. Um. For this, Python brings basically 0 limitations to the table.  Most interpreted languages bring zero limitations to the table.  This is not a performance intensive project, and god help you if you do this in C++.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2015-01-27 23:12:10

Hi,
Yeah, I didn't really think about c++ and its terrible memory management. I was thinking for cross platform sake, it'd be useful. then again there are always other languages for that. We'll have to see what we can find!

Underworld Tech.
Accessibility from us, to you.
Visit us

2015-02-07 01:07:55

Hi Jayde.
Sorry for bringing back an old topic but I just wanted to let you know that if you need help I can write storylines help with game mechanics things like that just let me know if you need help.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2015-02-18 11:34:19

I have an overall storyline but I'm not at all averse to people wanting to chip in on certain things. I have a build standard in mind, regarding tone and dialogue and all that, but I'm not utterly set in stone on everything.

So let me be clear. Python is probably the language to code this in? There's been a lot of back and forth in here about using BGT or C# or Python or whatnot. Bearing in mind that a lot of the real heft of a project like this is probably going to be numeric (formulae, damage calculations, spatial awareness on a map). I don't need raw 360-degree sound output where you have to know precisely which angle something is at with relation to your own character or anything, so I probably won't need anything like vectors and such.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1