2018-10-10 08:57:33

Okay, might I suggest people calm down again slightly, and indeed do as Jase K suggested in 49 and examine things from different perspectives.

I will say from Caccio's position I do see the logic that for a blind person online communication is more  important owing to society being generally not exactly pleasant for blind people elsewhere, and there are certainly circumstances, even online in which people are treated unfairly due to having a disability.

However, there is a similar arguement that because! online communication is more important to a blind person, its necessary to A, cultivate a manner that fosters good responses from others, and B, be able to discuss actual access matters in a reasonable way, (I've done a lot of this myself over the years)

In this instance I'm afraid it doesn't seem the decision on the part of the WEBL Mods is influenced by the fact that Caccio is a blind player, simply by virtue that A, there is at least one, and possibly more openly blind players of the game, and B, the mod in question joined a forum full of  blind players just to discuss the game, and indeed discuss the ban.

So accusations of discrimination in this case do  not exactly seem justified, even though I can sympathise with the emotion and circumstances that motivate them.

While I do admit I have my reservations on formulating moderation decisions on such criteria as "annoying" as I said above, its equally not really my business, since in the end moderators are the final authority in the environments they moderate, plus, since the ban is only temporary, and is part of a joke, admittedly a fairly ARBITRARY one imho, but still a regular tradition apparently, I would not take it quite as seriously as some are here, since I gather it was not meant as such.

On the other hand, I will say some of the responses here are edging into the lynch mob zone themselves, talking about people getting “beaten up” etc.

It is true there are plenty of douchenozzles online, some of them running communities. Its also unfortunately true that dounchenozelary is sadly increasing, mostly due to excessive factionalism  often indeed promotes attitudes of actual discrimination.

However, it is equally not true that this covers every net community or “sighted forum”

I’ve been a visually impaired online gamer now for a good fifteen years, and while I’ve seen an arsehole or two, the vast majority of games I’ve  played I’ve got on with fine, indeed on average gaming communities  surround smaller, games, especially text orientated ones, tend to be more  accepting places generally, indeed some of the most fruitful discussions I’ve had over game access have been with such.

So, jumping to conclusions or threatening dire  “consequences if this were a sighted forum” doesn’t seem reasonable either, nor ultimately likely to  support any given case, since communities that are! Rife with arseholes don’t tend to attract newbies who aren’t themselves arseholes anyway.

So, bottom line, can people just relax a little please? We all like games, most of us have a bloody annoying disability, and this is a complex subject with multiple perspectives about which people are understandably feeling emotive.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2018-10-10 09:33:40

Dark, it's just that I hoped, that WEBL has a mentally mature, grown up community, who won't ban a blind player out of a sheer "gag", while knowing, how vitally important online communications are for him.
Due the nature of the game, which requires a hell of advanced, sometimes even sophisticated thinking, brainwork, planning, strategy, estimating, counting, mathematical calculations, etc, so operations which normally cannot be performed successfully by younger age people, it's no game for kids, not even teenager adolescents, the average age of its community is not much lower than my own.
So all my hopes seemed to be justified, and I also hoped for a greater tolerance from such, both physically and mentally grown up people, than one can usually expect elsewhere online.

Yes, I may often communicate in a way, which certain people can feel annoyed by, I admit this, it's probably due my too straight nature and open personality, who always tells his oppinion directly to everyone around him.

Such a mature behavior, if you ask me, would involve penalizing, aka banning me when I brake a game-rule, when I commit a bannable offense, then I should be sanctioned for it accordingly, but not due some dumb "joke-contest", which was even held in a separated forum section, which is not visited by lots of the users, due its too open character.
It is meant for releasing steam, frustration, and tension, and as the result of that, it's accordingly even "largely unmoderated", full of swearing, cursing, rude, rubbish talk, insults, etc, amd exactéy due that same reason, it is mutually agreed not to have any direct influence at the game, but kept totally separated from it.
(again, this was even multiple times insisted by our moderators, including Power Lil himself too)

However, a community, which organizes, and welcomes such type of, if you ask me, idiotic, childish, and immature gags, counter-productive practical jokes, by totally ignoring all the circumstances...such a community cannot be considered for mentally mature enough.

I repeat one of my main arguments:
There are situations, there exist topics inappropriate for joking, even jokes have their moral limits, and in this case those limits were crossed by far!

Yes, maybe I am taking this case too seriously, but for me it is a damn serious issue, and this is only my personal oppinion of it, which is obviously, unfortunately, not shared by the majority of even those people, who are in similar handicapped situation to mine.

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2018-10-10 09:48:42 (edited by JaceK 2018-10-10 09:50:59)

Did you seriously just label a whole game's community as mentally immature and imply they have mental issues because they don't treat *you* well? I..what....what the actual fuck did I just read exactly? I...I'm trying to form an opinion but...
Other, SIGHTED playrs were bannd. Other blind players play with no issue. You've been called out by the chief mod over there for spamming him with emails and messages, you've not done a good job of stating your argument in this topic. Again, the community, not the chief mod alone, found you unpopular enough to gag you, correct? Well that should tell you something about how people perceive you...

EDIT: Also if people are going to vote to gag you, they don't care how 'itally important' communicating is. Again, that's another reason to gag you, in their eyes.

If in doubt, chocolate and coffee. Enough said.

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2018-10-10 10:55:34 (edited by Caccio72 2018-10-10 10:58:34)

Well, if you ask me, tripping a man with an artificial leg, putting a spider into the sleeves of a spider-phobic person, pushing a man who cannot swim into the water, and similar "practical jokes" are not typical for mentally mature people.
(totally regardless of the health-status or situation of their targets)

You obviously don't agree with this, fine.

I will try to be objective now:

I understand, and accept your arguments and point:
There is a community, with the annual "event" of banning the overall most unpopular members for 10 days.
Ok, let's presume that I must have missed that "event" last year, and let's even assume, how it is meant to be held in that separate, unmoderated part of the forum, avoided by all those community members, who feel bothered by rude language.
Then, me asking for a "special treatment" for being blind, and very much addicted to online communications as a consequence of it, (at least that's the way how I am trying to deal with my handicap), so in this case I agree, I really have no rights to ask for a special treatment.
I should be treated just the same way as all the other "winners" of that contest, no exceptions, no rights of protest, tough luck, plus, it's partially my own fault too, as the result, the consequence of my communication style, which certain other community members, (mostly regular Back Alley visitors), feel so much annoyed by.
Ok, all this in case, if this all is true and justified.

However, there is my point of view too, which I have already explained multiple times, but in short:
There exist things inappropriate to make jokes about.
And especially in cases, when the circumstances are well known to all regular members of a community, performing such "jokes" is definitely immoral, aka exceeds the moral limits of humane, mentally mature behavior.

There, these are the 2 sides of the truth.

I hope I did sound reasonable enough this time.

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2018-10-10 13:11:11

@Jase, Caccio's chief arguement here if I am reading the situation correctly, is that a joke perpetrated in a consciously unmoderated adult part of the forum intended for releasing tension should not spill out into the rest of the game. In addition that he feels the joke has personal significance in his case as a blind person with extra reliance upon online communication.

Also be aware that the "spamming with emails" mentioned by llecha occurred after the contest ban was applied not before.

I cannot personally speak to what Caccio's behaviour on the WEBL forums was like, I will also say for my part that  using the term "annoying" as a metric for moderator decisions, and allowing a popularity  contest to dictate forum policy do seem a little odd to me from the perspective of what is good moderator action, though by the same token as I said above, if this is a regular contest and if it only results in a ten day ban with no after consequences, it is at most a miner annoyance, rather  than a major case of unfairness, however Caccio feels about the situation.

@Caccio, I fully agree that perpetrating disability based jokes is a bad thing. writing insults on a blind person's back with a pencil, or adding an insulting image to their profile which a screen reader couldn't identify would both be legitimate grounds for claiming that disability based hate crimes, have occurred, (what are sometimes called Ablest, although I personally do not like that term).

The problem is that while I can understand your feelings of frustration given the importance of online communication to blind people, I do not accept the direct correlation between receiving a very temporary ban from the forum of an online game for joking reasons, and aforesaid malicious intent.

Firstly, while a given online game might be of more importance to you due to you being a blind person, "more personal importance" is not grounds to change normal rules of the game, after all, it is not as if the game is actively  or has some sort of inherent disadvantage for blind players, such as inaccessible graphical displays.

yes, being a blind person does mean the game is of more personal importance to you, but the same could be said of lots of people, someone might be an avid boxing fan, or suffer shyness or another social problem which makes it just as difficult for them to make social contacts in real life, heck, I am guessing there are plenty of sighted players of WEBL who consider the game as just as critically important to them simply because they enjoy the game and have put a huge amount of time and effort into it.

Think of it this way, I probably listen to more music than others being visually impaired and music being very important to me, but I doubt I'd get much truck walking into a shop and saying "I should have a discount on music because I am visually impaired and its more important to me"

I can access music the same way as other people, it doesn't take more effort to buy or listen to music, so why in this instance does my personal sense of "importance" warrant extra special treatment with music.

Now as I said, I am not exactly sure myself about this gag contest thing, and I would not like to venture an opinion on who deserves what, particularly since as I mentioned I am a wee bit suspicious of "annoyance" being a good justification for moderationn.
however, if you must be irritated about this decision, then be annoyed, admit its a pain and either go back to WEBL after the ten days are up, or move on and play a different game. However there doesn't seem much point in bringing disability into this debate, or of claiming discrimination where it has not occurred. This I believe is what is causing so much acrimony in this particular topic, not that a moderator joke on WEBL has caused you to get a very miner ban and your annoyed about it, but that your attempting to   appeal on a basis of discrimination  inappropriately.

Unfortunately, with people here experiencing rather more  cases of real discrimination and  hate crime, sometimes on a literal daily basis, then  a short term ban from a forum really doesn't seem that bad, btw, I am speaking from personal experience here.

Even in online terms, bare in mind I've seen admins of games (not many admitedly but they do exist), who have said they don't want blind people playing their game, who refuse to believe screen readers exist and so refuse any access changes, or who straight out say all blind people are either too winy, or too poor to warrant any access changes to basically play their games. And yet, you've mentioned yourself how good the accessibility of WEBL is on many previous occasions, it makes a very temporary forum ban seem a pretty miner matter.

While I  sympathise with the reason for your irritation here and I'm well aware of the importance of online communication (heck I met my wife online), I don't think  screaming about "discrimination" is the right way to express that frustration.

As I said, just have a good yell, say "this is bloody annoying!" and then move on!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2018-10-10 13:50:23

THe way I'm interpreting it is it's the gag contest and the community that votes, decides who wins. You can still (if I'm reading it right) play the game without using the forums, correct? I've said in at least thre posts now, why not just play another game which seems to be a simple solution after all.

I don't see a problem with the contest even if it does spill out of the back alley though Dark, because you have to have done something to get on the list o be gagged, the way I understand it. If you don't get on people's bad sides, you don't get put up on the list. Even if you do, you may well not win the prize. It's only a week and a half, and it's not like Webl's the only game in town. THere's other games to play after all. I'm going back and forth on one that I used to play and throwing out a topic but I keep going back and forth on it due to many, many issues wihth said game, as an example.. Webl's not the only game. There's a ton of other games that you could play instead of raging about perceived 'discrimination' when none exists.

The thing is, Dark, Caxio signed up to Webl. He agreed to abide by their rules and policies. That's the be all and end all of it. Their game. THeir rules. If they want to have the contest, they can because it's their game, their rules. It'd be like if I got banned and went on FB screaming about how bad the mods here were for example. By registering on any site you have to agree to that site's rules and say you'll follow them. THat's standard practise for registering. Whether you actualy do read them? Whole other matter, but Webl got you by the throat. You agreed to abide by their rules on their site and game and forums, and I'm fairly sure one is 'don't go to tother forums and badmouhh Webl' hidden somewhere in the rules. FOllowed by 'the administrators can odo what they want when they want for whatever reason' rules. Paraphrased but....you (Caxio) agreed to follow their rules. You did something to cause the community to vote you up for gagging, here's an idea...instead of constantly bitching about it....

the time to work on  your anger and hostility, you were coming off earlier, now you've calmed down a bit, as extremely hostile and closed minded. Now, I've not got to your posts on the Webl forums but like i've been saying. Think, before you post. Read back what you've written and....here's an idea. If you're so pissed off at a game, a forum, a toaster, whatever....go do something else. Listen to music, play another game, whatever calms you down. THEN go back to whatw as pising you off in a calm manner. I've a hunch that wouldn't get anyone voted up for gagging really.

On another note I told one of my close friends about it and that I wasn't on the list. Aside fron being told I'd automatically get 10 votes (thanks close friend...:P) they made a good point. Everyone finds different things 'annoying' but...here's the exact quote

So the guy in that topic came in screaming and throwing his toys around about being toed up for gagging? Dude, you were on <another game> and could get away with murder. You never once got gagged. You were sarcastic and bitchy at times but you sent me the link to this guy's topic and JFC just....what's his deal, did somebody urinate in his cereal? No reason to be that salty over a game ban? Hey I'd vote him up for that attitude too. Give him two votes in the next contest from your old sanc leader

Sarcastic quotes asideaside, there's truth in that quote. I get how people could have got sick of you, Caxio and wanted you gone, rightly or wrongly. THe thing is...it was, if I'm right, a community vote, so you apparently did enough to get people to vote to gag you. Obviously those people felt like you and the other winners needed a break from Webl's forums.

SHould a joke spill over? Debatable, Dark. But, let's say Bob was a mod here and had a contest where the winners wouldn't be able to post anything for a week, and troublemakers were on the list, wouldn't it be a good thing overall if those troublemakers weren't able to post, and if the community as a whole voted for it? That's what the people want after all. I'm not saying it happens here, but I know of similar contests, hell I've been in one on other games and amazingly got 0 votes to be murdered. I'm still amused how I never got one vote. I'll admit, I was active in the crew forum on that game and helped the crew out, so that may have been why....but point is, if it helps the game as a whole, the ends do justify the means. Yes, Dark, we're going to disagree on it but I'll stick by this. I'd rather deal with troublemakers as an admin  by way of giving themselves rope and letting them hang themselves. I'd rather let the community decide who should be gagged. If somebody truly has riled up the community....they will more than likely get voted on and punished.hem

If in doubt, chocolate and coffee. Enough said.

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2018-10-10 14:57:44

@Jase K, I'm afraid I don't personally agree on either community contests to ban members, or that a person who wins such a contest must automatically have done something to warrant it.
I've seen too many times even on this  forum when the flame wagon gets arollin' and everybody wants to ride, and you don't have to go too far to find games where there is a particularly favoured group of players.

Plus as stated earlier, mods are people, admins are people, and the metric  annoyance is a purely subjective one, whether that is applied to the mods, or to some group of players who vote in a particular contest.

that being said, you are correct that when you sign up to an online game, you unfortunately put yourself at the mercy of its moderators and staff, one hopes the staff will do their job responsably and not let personality clashes influence their decisions, but    staff are people just like you and me.
This is why on this forum, we try to only take moderator actions when the good of the community at large is threatened rather  than out  some personal reasons.

I don't know whether Caccio deserves a ban or not and frankly its not really my business to say, its the business of the WEBL staff, though I will say he is quite within his rights to come and have a good vent here or anywhere else. This is a discussion forum after all, and you and I and likely every forum member has had an issue with some game or other, even with the way some game or other is run in the past.

while as I said previously I don't agree with Caccio regarding  discrimination, and while I do believe his reaction is a wee bit extreme, he definitely is allowed to have a good  moan on the forum if he wishes, indeed that is often a good way to remove frustration in and of itself, heck it wouldn't surprise me if there are! people out there who have gone elsewhere and had a good winj about this forum, ---- and well, who am I to complain, heck I sometimes winj about this forum to my wife, especially when I have lots of trouble to sort out D.

I also am not really sure about your point with your friend, or what exactly you mean, though I will  that quoting remarks about "being sick of someone" or "eurinating in cerial" is getting dangerously close to personal attack territory here, which of course is one thing which is not allowed on this! forum.

I've been impressed so far how well everyone has been coping with their strong emotions in this topic,  arguing coherently, if on occasion heatedly about the case at hand, not about the personal merits or habits of people on one side or another of it, so lets please maintain that standard of discussion.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2018-10-10 15:38:52

Yes...but....Webl runs their ship their way though. I've not been bored enough to read through their terms though but I could certainly get how a mod could very well find this topic and Caxio's posts and reactions and decide it'd be part of any evidence for action however....whether that's right or wrong is up for debate either way, we ain't Webl mods and we don't have access to al the site. For all we know Powerlil has things they're not disclosing, that may well shed new light on either side of the argument though. I'm still saying I personaly don't see anything wrong with the contest really, given it was in an unmoderatd (largely) area of the forum and if you didn't post there you wouldn't know about it. THere's absolutely the argument to be made that if you're nice but firm to people, but fair you won't get up for any votes on any such contests. THere's also the argument that if somebody dislikes....say.....Bob or Alice, they'll find any reason, however small to go after them though. Been on both sides of that on games, got caught up in a witch hunt, and got caught on the wrong side of one tooo, so seen both sides and it's not pleasant.....but....it's a fact of life on the interwebs though.

Also for the point about disabled jokes, everyone has a varying line about what thyey find funny vs offensive. FOr instance, Frankie Boyle, I find his stuff offensive, but I find other 'offensive' comedians/comediennes absolutely hilarious. For instance, the famous 'songs not to play at a wedding' video. Others may find that crosses a line, I find it hilarious since it pokes fun at songs and the idea of inappropriate songs to play at a wedding. FOr the record none of them are too out there, and I find things darkly funny others may find ofensive but I draw a line pretty far off in that regard. Or putting it another way, I don't feel like disabled people shouldn't be the target of jokes...within reason. I'll admit, I tend to laugh more at the dark jokes though, it's a running theme in my circle of friends....but point is, I don't feel like disabled people should ever be immune from jokes, just as sighted people are. Caveat: WITHIN REASON! I'd post a few here but I kind of like not being booted off here....and given I got most of said jokes from the internets....yeah not retelling any until you mods lose yer internt /sarcasm (Seriously...nope, they're dark and darkly hilarious but so not appropriate for places like this....)

I'd argue too though that Webl could learn from this....actualy Webl and Caxio couldd. If the owner has no issue with their mod staff, then that's not something that'll change. That's a  part of being on that game, dealing with the mods/staff there. That being said, I'd also say don't go onto a forum and make what I like to call shouty capital rant posts without a reason and evidence to back it up, and thinking it through as well.

If in doubt, chocolate and coffee. Enough said.

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2018-10-10 16:24:09

I just think this kind of behavior is what you'd see from like 12-16 year old children, not full grown adults. I cannot believe Caccio continues to shamelessly use disability to further his means. Using false discrimination claims when, like Dark pointed out, there is so much real discrimination that goes on every day. People with service dogs often times have Uber, Lyft, or taxis pull away from them once the driver sees the dog. restaurant employees claim that service animals cannot be in the restaurant in question, arguing and threatening to call the police even the person in question informs them of the ADA laws. A lot of places don't have accessible crosswalks, a lot of buildings have stopped with braille signs.

There are so many instances of discrimination, I didn't even mention the fact that trying to get a job is like 10X harder if you're blind. The point being I just am appalled at this ongoing behavior. He's not even listening, just dismissing our points and carrying on with his thing. I don't think there's even any point in continuing to discuss it with him, since he's unwilling to listen. There's so much work to be done trying to educate people about blindness and blindness is only one form of disability, there are so many others with their own misconceptions, their own discrimination stories, etc. We don't need people working against us. It seems to me like the guy is throwing a temper tantrum. It's 10 days, 8 now I think. But the thing is, when he gets unbanned, he'll probably go back there and spam more, etc. If I were the mods, I'd probably extend his ban an additional month for kicking up such a fuss over nothing.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

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2018-10-10 19:21:19 (edited by Caccio72 2018-10-10 20:04:31)

Ok guys, since I read how certain things are misunderstood here, I must correct them:

1st of all, I would like to repeat, that in WEBL, the Back Alley forum section can hardly represent the "voice of the majority".
I also repeat, that many of those community members, who feel bothered by constantly rude language, filled with swearing, cursing, insults, etc, keeps avoiding that forum section, and never even ventures there, never read its topics.

This means, that a voting held in that forum sector must not mean, that the "winner" is really disliked by the majority of the community, or by the community in general, it only means that he is disliked by its part, which visits the above described Back Alley regularily.

This is the reason, why I consider a it for totally inappropriate, to held a contest there, (even if out of joke), which will influence the game directly, by issuing 10 day bans to some of its players.
If the aim of the contest is indeed to "punish" those, who the community, in general, feels irritated or annoyed by, then it should be held in an other, official part of the forum, where all regular forum visitors could have voted, not only the Back Alley regulars.

Again, it's both a part of WEBL rules, and insisted by its moderators, (including Power Lil himself), that Back Alley should be kept totally separated from other forums, other parts of the game, and by no means allowed to have any influence at the official gameplay.
"BA issues should stay, remain in BA", oh how many times these words were repeated in WEBL forums!

The second thing misinterpreted is the nature of that "gag contest".

No, I never said, I never accused the contest itself having the initial, direct aim, or intention to abuse player's, community member's eventual physical disabilities.

However, its result, its outcome does it in my case, even if unwanted or unintentionally, due my enormous need of online communications.
And that need was known to all WEBL regulars, normally included Power Lil, who suggested and lead the voting.

No, I believe he definitely didn't mean to abuse this online-communication-dependent situation of mine, but he hasn't thought of it, hasn't taken  this addiction of mine into consideration,when he started with his contest, nor when I was trying to remind him of it, by explaining, of how huge importance online communication is to me, and what a severe handicap will it mean to me, to be prevented from it, yes, even if only for 10 days", for me, those 10 days already feel like eternity!

Sure, there are other games and alternatives, but you guys surely know my sophisticated taste and expectations, and currently there exist only 2 games I am satisfied enough to play regularily, WEBL and Text Spaced.
Actually, those are the only 2 games I play for a longer time now, and spend all my vast spare time with.
Even in WEBL I only participate in communications lately, since due certain personal reasons of mine, (so not community related ones this time(, I decided to retire from the active gameplay.
But since I don't play the game itself actively anymore, regularily communicating in it has become even more important to me, and this is another thing Power Lil has, probably unwantedly, missed to consider.

Ok, those 10 days don't sound too harsh for you, I can accept that.
But please tell me, if I have decided to escape from real world into cyber one of online games, and from real life communications into online ones, what the bloody hell am I supposed to do for 10 days, when the most of my time I keep spending exactly with communicating online, inside my 2 currently remaining favorite games, actually websites, and have no other alternatives left than those???

Ok, one of them has still remained open to me, Text Spaced.
But that is only the 50% of my communication-entertainment, communicating in WEBL covered the rest 50, and I got prevented from it the way I described.

So no wonder I am revolting, don't you think so?
Please try to understand, I don't communicate, don't talk to people in real life anymore, I have given up all live contacts with them, I only have my 76 years old mom I live with to talk to, and all my desperate need for communication I have decided to satisfy online, inside a chosen, mentally mature, tolerant enough community, who will accept me the way I am, with all my merits and weaknesses, human incongruities and fallabilities!

Please, do imagine living for 10 days, without being allowed to talk, say a single word to anyone around you!
(those "anyone around you" in my case got replaced by WEBL community)

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2018-10-10 19:48:55

So, in my particular case, even if unwanted, that "gag-contest" held out of joke in Back Alley, has resulted in an, again, most likely unplanned and unconsidered, abuse of my online communication urge and dependence, addiction we could say, which was caused by my total loss of vision, as its result, as my chosen way of trying to forget it, to leave it behind me, at least while playing, or communicating online.

So this is the reason why I feel the consequences of my disability to be abused by the result, the outcome of that contest, even if unwantedly and indirectly.
If you ask me, this should have been taken into consideration by Power Lil, before starting that damn contest, especially since I kept trying to put it through to him multiple times.
Plus, quite a few other community members were also against such a contest, yes, even among regular Back Alley visitors, and were trying to talk Power Lil out of it, that 1st thread of his, where he announced his intention to run that contest, had round 80 replies, and lots of those were against the idea, this is also something he somehow "forgot" to mention.

And this is the reason of me feeling revolted enough, to start a thread about the case here.

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2018-10-10 19:51:54

Actually, that would be brilliant, I don't talk a lot, if I can go through a day without uttering a single sound, it's a good one. You even call your need an addiction, but addictions are not healthy. You've obsessed and build a dependency and now probably developed a neurosis or psychosis due to this. This is why I recommend you try to get help, because a qualified mental health professional will be able to help you get through this stuff and back on the right track.

You can't blame this on them, because they have the right to run their game as they see fit. I don't even know the entire story, so I can't make a judgement. Given what I do know, I'd say the decision was a bit questionable, a bit sketchy maybe, but then again, I do not know all the facts. I can tell you that a lot goes on behind the scenes that players just don't  about. It's not always for the administrators or moderators to make the players privy to said information, as that might be a breach of confidentiality, giving out other' personal data like contact info, etc. Are there bad mods, bad admins, oh hell yes. In this case, I'm not so sure. The best I can come to saying is that the decision is a bit questionable to me, but as I've previously stated, I don't have all the facts. I don't like making judgement calls without all the facts. Having fallen into this trap in the past, I try to do better about it. Same with assumptions, I think we all get hit with that one at one time or another. We know a bit about something, make assumptions and suppositions to fill in the gaps, and jump to the wrong conclusion. It's human imperfection, but I still strive to not do it. Sometimes my efforts fail me, but I can only try to do better in the future.

SO let's talk about this need for online communication and how you can break this cycle. First off, no one is going to be overly fond of you if you come off needy and desperate. Second, there are other things you can do. Hell, check into crafting and things of that nature, learn to do something, work with clay, learn to weave, do leather crafts, wood working. Only you know the resources available to you, I'm not trying to insinuate that you can do everything that some others can do. It's based off of what you have available to you in your country. But, check into it, see what holds your interest. You've started a dangerous cycle that you now need to break.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

Thumbs up +1

2018-10-10 19:54:54 (edited by JaceK 2018-10-10 19:59:48)

Webl should have done this, they should do that, they should do this this and this.....that's the gist of your message I'm getting. You don't run Webl. Need I remind you once again that by registering and agreeing to their rules you.....agreed to their rules and stated you'd abide by them, and agreed the staff would have the final say? You did after all, register. You did tick the little 'I agree' box and then carry on registering.

Regardless of if the back alley represents the communty as a whole or one part of it, the fact stil remains that you did something to get banned. Power said you make millions of topics, I dunno if that's an exaggeration or not, I've not bothered to register.....but I'm still tending to believe somebody who has mod powers on said forums and once again, has access too more stuf than a regular user.
Also, the consequence of your disability has zero to do with this. If Powerlil wanted to do something, he can. Again...moderators and admins on a site have final say what goes on. You said up there a page back you shouldn't get any special treatment, now you're backtracking and saying that Power should have considered what this contest MIGHT have done to you. QUestion is. How well does he know you. And more to the point, does he actualy believe what you tel him.....because people lie online. People lie  a lot more and if something sounds totally and utterly  outlandish people may not believe it, or simply not care.a

Also. Abuse? Again. No. I'll just point to a shitload of previous posts debunking your discrimination arguments. You got cut off from talking to people on one game? Okay. THat sucks. But you still have Textspaced, you still have Facebook, which you play Textspaced on. Get a few people you play Textspaced with and talk to them, for example. Before you say easier said than done....I get that but it's not rocket science, at all.

EDIT: Gah, Iron, I wasn't expecting your post before mine. Meh! You make good points though. I'd argue since the DSM lists internet addiction as a regonized disorder, profesional help is pretty much the best way to go really. I wasn't going to say desperate and needy yet, I was going to try tact but....my tact sorta ran out a few pages ago. If anything I'd argue Caxio at least from my chairr is coming off as having nothing else to do, so to that end I'd say find things to do in your local area, even if it's finding some friends and going for a coffee or something simple. Something to take your mind off of communicating online....because that's not a healthy thing at all. WHat if, for instance, Caxio's internet went down tomorrow and was down for a week or two weeks? I just don't think this will ever end well personally.

If in doubt, chocolate and coffee. Enough said.

Thumbs up

2018-10-10 20:39:18

But of course all regular WEBL players, all regular community members know of this online communication addiction of mine, since I have repeated it to them multiple times.

They also know I am no fake, nor is my vision loss, I have proven it multiple times to them by now, even with my Facebook account, containing all real data, all my real life friends, , relatives, ex classmates and work collegues, along with some bosses even, my pub-mates, neighbours, relations from my ex home country, etc...hopefully they don't think I would have kept lying to,and deceiving all those, over 250 people over many, many years, before I even heard of WEBL...plus all the comments, theirs and mine  about my eye-tumor and the stages of my vision loss...

Your argument is generally valid, but it's not suitable for my case:
I am a very typical intellectual type of person, so I have no interest in any physical type of spare time activity, entertainment or hobby.
I normally did have my outdoor hobbies, I was a very good, expert, almost pro level pool and chess player, but after totally losing my eyesight, I have concentrated only on indoor activities, performed only inside my own apartment and room.
So, I seek only types of entertainment which involve, and require lots of brainwork, thinking, planning, strategy, and of course verbal capabilities, which then I can utilize during online communications.
And space exploration, which I was always dreaming of in my real life, and which I can now fully enjoy virtually, thanks to the game Text Spaced.
Man, I do hope I won't get banned even from that game, meaning from its chats in Discord, I will really have no alternatives of entertainment remained then!

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2018-10-10 20:56:11

So far I am treattted very nicely and politely in Text Spaced chats, but it started the same way in Pardus and WEBL too, so I can only hope its community will turn out to be tolerant enough, to accept me the way I am for a longer term too.

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2018-10-10 21:15:38

You just keep going wide of the point. I mean, I don't mind going around and around in a circle, I'm cool with it, but you're totally missing the point. The point is not that you told them of these quote, needds, end quote, that you have. Well, these are not needs, sorry but they are just not. This is why I've stated twice, now making a third time that you should seek help from a mental health professional to break free of this cycle. I can't make you do it, you have to be proactive about it. I can tel that by your demeanor that you are dealing with some traumatic things that you have not been able to work yourself free of. This comes across, even through the text medium to me. You are maladjusted in your life now as a blind person. I get it, even though I don't get it. I cannot claim that I know what you're going through, because my vision has always been this way, but I do understand that you're going through it. Still, you should have been on the sunnier side of things by now. Caccio, it wouldn't hurt you to look at that youtube link I plopped down a few posts back, something in the high 20's. I think you might relate to this girl, her name is Molly Burke. She went through her own ordeal regarding vision loss.

My first instinct would just be to shout you down, but I can tell you're going through some stuff. You just nee to stop using your blindness as an excuse, do you realize how shameful that is? Do you realize how many people do things despite their blindness, by you saying things like this, you're perpetuating stereotypes. You say you're an intellectual, do you see that? Do you see how what you're doing is pushing us back, and not progressing us forward. If that's the only take away you have from this, let it be that. You want to grumble about things like that, fine, you're not harming anyone by doing it, but this whole blind card, this whole victim mentality, you're harming the entire blind community, you're reinforcing stereotypes and reinforcing the stigma of what it means to be disabled.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

Thumbs up +1

2018-10-10 21:55:26 (edited by Caccio72 2018-10-10 21:57:27)

And why do you consider yourself for eligible, or entitled to prescribe, to determine, which are the right ways activities to spend my spare time with?
Why dont you let me decide that?
You ignore the fact, that it's me after all, who knows the best what kind of spare activities I prefer the most, and which type of activity provides me the most entertainment?

I decided for online games and communications, so, sorry if this will sound a bit rude, but who do you think you are to judge that, and influence this decision of mine?

For example, right now I am spending all my time with Text Spaced, and its chats on Discord, but I do miss communicating in WEBL forums very much, since after a certain point, doing the very same activity, inside the very same community can become a bit boring, and one just needs some changes, something different, regardless how cool his current entertainment or activity may be.

Look, even if your favorite food is mushroom pizza, after eating it for a longer time, only that one type, without any changes or modifications, believe me, you will get bored of it one day, sooner or later, (more likely sooner), and will feel the urge for something else, anything what is at least slightly different from it, like an onion, or a bacon pizza for a change!

But also, normally, you won't be willing to change your favorite type of activity, (in my case online games and communications), but only apply some modifications, updates, different variants of it.
(in my case WEBL forums instead of Text Spaced chats)

I hope you can follow this, and get my point.

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2018-10-10 22:13:30

@Caccio, I do understand where your coming from myself.
I won't go into details but lets say I have had similar issues of my own including Ptsd, depression, genophobia and various other nasty symptoms from things that have happened in my life quite aside from my blindness which make social interaction difficult.

i don't say this to try and one up anyone in the game of misery poker, merely to say that yes, I  understand where your coming from on this issue.

That being said Caccio,I'm afraid I do think here that the real issue is not the behaviour of the WEBL mods, but your own reaction to the situation.

Firstly, you mention that only two games satisfy your rather high personal standards. There is certainly no shortage of games out there. Back in 2006, I played through literally every game on the audiogames.net database, and had before then played extensively through a great many online games, while some games like Core exiles I have played fairly extensively, there is no single game, online or off it that has entirely taken all of my attention, because I consider myself a fairly omnnivorous gamer, I have played  from solitaire to stratogy, have learned to play backgammon and poker,  enjoyed smacking monsters in online muds or a pure kill fest, or building civilizations in games like Castaways I love new experiences, love to try out new games and find out new things.

So, firstly your over reliance on just two games here seems a little extreme to me.

Secondly, gaming is not the only form of social interaction available online by any stretch of the imagination.
While I do a great deal on this forum, I also do many other things  as well.
I write book reviews, I do work for this site, I communicate with others by mailing lists, heck I even met the wonderful lady I'm married to on a mailing list about books and music.

Getting away from the computer, I also read extensively, and do a lot of things involving music, plus I have a guide dog who requires natural attention including walks etc.

Aside from that I also completed a phd thesis, which required work on my part to complete, and I'm now writing stories and poetry with a view to professional publication.
I also learned conversational Italian, and still practice my singing

I did have the advantage of meeting several friends for a role playing game each week who I met through my university, and occasionally getting involved in stage productions (though if you really! want to hear about discrimination, try auditioning for anything as a blind performer).

I did all of these things (aside from getting married), while I was in a pretty bad psychological position myself, indeed after spending close to 36 hours straight playing smugglers 3 in 2008, I actually began to realize that I needed to vary things at least a little myself or risk falling into a worse mess.

So, I  recommend personally that you perhaps look around for other things in your life besides gaming. Gaming is awesome by all means, but it is certainly not the only! thing worth spending ones time on.

As a start, you mention being a keen chess player before you lost your sight, well why in the name of holy hell did you stop playing chess then?

See The international braille chess association for details, quite aside from  accessible chess games.

I will agree finding social interactions is hard, especially if you start with disadvantages of being blind and perhaps having other issues, and yes, there are far too many people in society who's entire idea of relaxation is to walk into a crowded noisy room and embibe neuro toxins, however, if you stop looking you end up stuck, and that seems to be what has happened in your case, which is why a miner annoyance on an online game has affected you so badly.

Hope some of this helps.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2018-10-10 22:37:42

@67 I'm not trying to *tell* you what to do. I'm informing you that your habits are unhealthy, but hey, if you want to remain in that way then do it. What I do want is for you to stop the god damn blindie excuse shit, that's all I want. I don't know why you keep skating around the point, refusing to acknowledge it. If you want to grumble grumble, fine, but quit making us all look bad, because that's exactly what you're doing. I've tried several times in a more polite way to explain this.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

Thumbs up +3

2018-10-10 22:44:21


this topic is being closed.

I did hope the discussion would remain civil but with post 69 we seem to have stepped beyond the mark.
further moderator action pending.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2018-10-11 09:24:44


Okay, since the problem in post 69 has been dealt with I'm reopening this topic, though please keep the discussion civil.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2018-10-11 10:47:00

I agree with dark, thare other games to play, social networks, things to do. For example, I just started learning to code websites. I also play some video games, even though I'm not the best at it, but I get better and learn a thing or two each time I play... sometimes. You may wish to reopen lines of communication once lost, because as I've found, better than any medicine, people help people feel more happy. Of course, its not always an easy ride, but its better than depending on online games for all your social needs.

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2018-10-11 11:02:20

This seems kind of extreem, i mean, what did he do in post 69 that was ban worthy? It didn’t seem that insulting, at least to me, a little ferm maybe but there’s only so many times you can be nice about something before it just doesn’t work anymore.

2018-10-11 12:41:26

I've been pointing out yo, other games to play for...how many posts now? Go check back on my posts and count if you like honestly, I've been saying try X and Y to Caxio and he didn't seem to listen as of writing this post. To be blunt, I get why Ironcross was geting frustrated. I get it. It's like trying to help somebody and them turning around and giving you the middle finger and refusing any help. Whichh, okay, Caxio doesn't have to take our help but at the same time we're all on the same page that we're at least trying to ofer help here, right?

Maybe Iron could have worded it better but I get his anger and frustration over this. I do....maybe it wasn't the best way to word it, but if anything it was going to be said sooner or later and I do feel like Caxio wasn't exactly addresing points and skirting issues and making excuses.

Oh I'm intellecttual....just comes of rereading it as arrogance and, ironically enough, immaturity. His whole rant about OH MAH GAWD COMMUNITY HAS TO BE MATURE? Same deal with coming off as immature and arrogant. Just because he recently lost his sight doesn't give him a reason to lash out and bitch and put people into lice litle boxes and refuse to deal with people he, for whatever reason, sees as inferior. That is...frankly, something that needs professional help with after all. I'm now awaiting his wall o' text about how we're all wrong and how his way is the only way, because that's the gist I've got from all his posts in this topic, that Caxio is the sole one with the right idea bout what's best for him and only he knows best, not people who could offer other viewpoints and could offer some level of help...nope, Caxio honestly comes off to me as somebody who is bitter and anger and seriously could use some sort of hobbyo or something to take his mind off of things. I feel like the Webl guys were, dare I say it, in the right if he was and I'm reaching and assuming here...but...

Let's asume he was that angry and bitter on Webl's forums, it's not hard to see why people would not exactly take that mindset well and would inded vote him up for being silenced, after all. THere's only so much bullshit people are willing to take online...and given people tend to be giant drama llamas online in certain communities.....yeah. You can do the rest. I just feel like his attitude (Caxio's) contributed to what went down on Webl. Shrike hasn't stepped up and confirmed or denied Caxio's claims of 'discrimination' which got totally and utterly shot down in flames. Hell Shrike hasn't said a bad word about the people at Webl. It was Caxio after all who started off the topic ranting and screaming and people went along with it till the mod from Webl presented a second side then things went every which way to hell and back.

If in doubt, chocolate and coffee. Enough said.

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2018-10-11 12:58:21

he got banned because of telling some guy to stop seaking attention? that's not healthy for a 43 year old guy to seak attention, you know that right? still can't get why ironcross got banned

you can't run from the darkness. we are everywhere.