2018-05-14 10:52:22

explore? take cr for example, if you go 6k units up from the ecliptic,  you go into a star sector. 6k below black holes. whether it be uncharted or deep space you know exactly what you're going to find. that's not exploration. i've said it time and again. like i have said before i do like cr as a game but it's universe moddle is very simplistic.

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2018-05-14 12:13:34 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-14 12:33:34)

Eh, I didn't have the patience to even progress, to advance to star-ships and space-flight in Cosmic Rage, aka CR!
(if that's the MUD you are referring to)

As a gamer of exploring-spirit, I wish to be able, to be allowed to start exploring the universe in games right away, from the very start, or, if that's not possible, then at least ASAP, with as few as possible obligatory requirements!
So yes, I hate any limitations, especially level-dependent location-restrictions, spaceship-types, upgrades, equipment, (those should be only game-currency-dependent if you ask me), but exploration-restrictions, movement- limitations bug me the most!
I can just hope there won't be any of those in the Starborn MUD!

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2018-05-14 12:16:37 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-14 12:34:53)

LOL, now I guess you can imagine, why I liked, and still like Elite-type science-fiction games the most!
(there sure were none of such limitations, restrictions, requirements in those)

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2018-05-14 16:10:05

well certainly with elite what you could get was based on the money you had. trading was good but it equally didn't give you insane amounts either.

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2018-05-14 16:40:49

But of course, I totally agree, and wish for a balanced, realistic game, no true gamer likes too easy games, no challenge in those!

So no, I definitely don't support the idea of being able to acquire some top, OP ships, equipment, and stuff right after a few days of playing, you have totally misunderstood me if you interpreted my post that way.

Working hard, earning the required in-game currency for better ships, outfits, equipment, upgrades...that is all fine, as long those are not rank or level-dependent.
But even if they are, (like in the case of the point-system in Miriani), at least we, players should be allowed to move totally free, all over the starmap, so an unrestricted, unlimited possibility of movement should be granted to us right from the start.
Wether it's recommendable, how wise it is to start exploring distant, unknown parts, undertake long, more risky voyages in our early stage of progress, that is up to us to decide, I just wish it to be allowed, aka made teorethically possible.

And since it is indeed possible in MUDs like Prometheus, Miriani, Star Conquest, I see no reason of changing that in Starborn either!

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2018-05-14 16:59:52

What I actually disapprove is exactly the system, the mechanics in Cosmic Rage:
The fact that I have to advance certain, actually quite a few so called "levels", even befor "being ready", aka to be allowed to buy a spaceship, and start flying through the space with it.

What reminds me, since I could not gather the patience to reach that "level" in CR, how large is the so called "known universe" there?
Meaning, how many of those so called "charted" systems, clusters exist in the CR-universe?
(just to compare them to those 40 in Miriani, and 55-60 or so in Prometheus)

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2018-05-14 17:00:49

Also with Elite, you can just go, like you an just set out and start jumping, and when you need to, you can refuel by using your fuel scoop to take in stellar matter, then you can go some more. Elite's universe is frogging huge.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

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2018-05-14 17:31:16

True, but first you have to earn enough money to be able to buy the fuel scoop over more essential things, which is totally fine.

I agree that your ability to go where you want shouldn't be restricted in any way, if you want to risk going to an anarchy and getting yourself killed by pirates should be up to you, not some overbearing game god who thinks he knows better than you how you should play the game.

That, I believe, is the primary reason why I enjoyed Elite so much and sunk so many hours on my Apple II playing it.

BTW: What kind of game was Elite Dangerous? I've never heard of it before even though I always kept an eye on the Elite universe, always hoping for a modernized version of the original game.

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2018-05-14 20:04:34 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-14 20:14:20)

Thanks for sharing my views, and taste regarding Elite this much!

Elite Dangerous is an online remake of the old Elite, normally with much more advanced graphics and mechanics.

Unfortunately, my eyesight has already started deteriorating when it was launched, so I didn't have too much time to play it anymore.
I still hoped one day I will see better again, and will be able to play it "properly", so I did buy the game, but due its dark background, (what else to expect from a space-simulation), I was struggling playing it quite hard.

As far as I could recon, the game is just fine, and does feature everything old Elite did, with similarily vast universe, similar ship-types, equipment, space-combat, trading, trade-goods, bulleting-boards and mission-types, etc...so with a very similar mechanics to its predecessor in general.

Personally I had the most trouble with landing on planets, starbases, or other space-structures or facilities.
(there were lots of those in each single star-system)
Yes, landing would have become much easier with auto-pilot, but one had only the most basic ship and equipment at the very start, and in order to buy any upgrades, normally, one had to trade and earn money for them...and since they were quite expensive for a new pilot, (again, this is something I totally approve), I just couldn't "perform" enough successful landings to gather the money for an auto-pilot.
(not even after practicing the so called "training missions", which included landing)

And yes, since after death, one restarts from New Earth, or alternatively from a certain  starbase, (forgot the name, but it functioned the same way in old Elite-games too), aka we start over the whole game again, with only the basic ship, equipment, AND with only the starting, initial 1K funds...my struggling kept remaining ineffective.

As for the game's online activity, I purchased it in it's very starting phase, right after an open Beta version, so I did notice some other human pilots occasionallly landing, launching, and even flying by while in space, but there was not a too much "alive" communication back then, meaning in-game chatting and messaging.

This however might have changed by time, after all 3 years have past since then...
(or was it just 2...damn, how fast time flies "in the dark")

Anyway, I still keep regularily receiving emails about news, events, updates in Elite Dangerous, so very likely lots of things have changed by now, maybe we don't even have to restart the game from the scratches after deaths anymore...

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2018-05-15 00:26:55

if elite dangerous the universe in it is anything like what he designed for frontier then it will be a fully fledged milkyway.

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2018-05-15 00:45:21 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-15 00:48:56)

As I remember, Elite Dangerous has started with a not too large universe too, round 50 systems or so, but they constantly kept promising many more, and a real vast universe at the end...and indeed, while I could still see, they doubled its size, (to round 100), and later, as they claimed,  increased it to a 10 time larger one even, at least according to their newsletters...unfortunately that was when I couldn't play the game at all anymore.

How large their universe is currently...no idea, maybe Google can tell...but it's sure multiple times larger, than in any science-fiction theme MUD I know of.
(normally, I highly doubt they could get even close to the size of the old, original Elite-Universe...

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2018-05-15 04:16:44

Well, whatever comes out now will never match Elite. The only way that could happen is if the original authors got together to produce a successor to the original game. But I doubt that will ever happen because the two authors had a falling out over copyright and ownership issues and aren't likely to ever get back together again, especially after so much time since the falling out has elapsed. And last I heard, neither author is willing to revisit the game for any reason.

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2018-05-15 06:01:28

Now that's a sad thing to hear...

So I guess the only remaining hope for now are Star Citizen, (for sighted gamers), and Starborn. (for us blind and VIP ones)

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2018-05-15 07:46:00

its starmourn, and I wouldn't get your hopes up. Ironrealms games are beautiful, rich, vibrant in every detail... until they start throwing microtransactions left, right, and center, and all the sudden, since you don't buy every item, you're left in the dust as everyone around you shells out the big bucks and jump ahead by lightyears.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

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2018-05-15 11:27:32

don't you just get sick of muds though? i mean i'd want or still do want a propper pc game. not something where you have to constantly type in commands all the time.

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2018-05-15 16:18:12

Darren, I don't know how adept you are with your screen-reader, but for me, in most of the cases, playing an MUD is much easier, smoother, and faster, than playing a classic, browser-based MMO.
I have nothing against accessable-enough browser-MMOs, but those TRUELY, perfectly accessable ones, which can be played real smoothly, and fast enough with screen-reader  are quite rare, so I am saying this only to explain to you, why many of us prefer MUDs over browser-MMOs.

Actually,  the only alternative of a totally accessable Elite, (how I can imagine), could be a game, which would be specifically designed for blind players, a 100% accessable one, which will exclude any browser MMOs, and online games in general as well...so an "ordinary" single-player game, like Smugglers, Eco Quadrant,  or A Hero's Call, at least that is the only way I can imagine it designed properly enough for us, and our expectations.

However, without an active online community, an active competition of real human beings, I fear I would get bored of it sooner or later for sure...

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2018-05-15 16:35:58

yes, I do agree with you on wanting a proper pc game, but I do like muds too for what they are and I also agree with you about having a fully audio version of a game though where you're not entering in commands all the time. I can do both though, and if I could code, I would learn how to build us a persistent world. I just don't know how to code, nor do I know of an easy enough language that I could pick up and start coding with right away. And I'm hearing very mixed reviews about the bgt toolkit, and I bought it back when it was a payed program and balked after the first little bit of introductory code, so I suppose that means I'll never be able to code the way I'd like to. Believe me, I would love to be able to build these kinds of persistent ongoing kinds of games that we're all wanting if only I had the knowledge. I mean I would even be willing to completely outsource the sound and music designing as well as the voice acting, since I don't know beef from bull's ass about editing and making voice recordings on a pc.

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2018-05-15 17:18:28 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-15 17:21:17)

Anyway, back to Starmourn:

As I read, they plan spaceship-maneuvering to function in 2d.
I presume this will exclude that 3rd, so called Z axis, making the maneuvering much smoother, faster, easier without it..
(similar to a simple, classic, accessable space-shooter game...I guess)

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2018-05-15 18:30:15

The problem is we live in a three-dimensional universe, in order for space to feel like space, you need that third dimension.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

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2018-05-15 20:21:50


The problem with your point of view is that the world isn't made up of just MUDs and MMOs, there are also single player games you download and install, hell, if you have to have multiplayer, there are also plenty of multiplayer games that you download and install, no MUD client, and no browser either.

On top of all of that, the original Elite was a single player desktop game, and that is what I would want, the plot is deep and difficult enough that having to compete with other players to get there first to get the clues or whatever else is needed to progress along the game's plot isn't needed, or wanted.

At least not by me.

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2018-05-15 21:10:38

oh i don't mind muds at all, i just want to see a real propper pc game. whether we'll get one or not is another matter but that's the sort of thing i would really want.
the game could be done along the same lines as swamp. swamp the offline version is free to play. but to go online it would be p2p. personally i don't have a problem with pay to play stuff if the content is worth paying for.
is arora still playable? especially with NVDA?

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2018-05-16 01:11:39

Orko, I see and totally accept your point.
I guess this is a matter of subjective taste and personal expectations from games.

As for me, I did like the old, original Elite very much, but making it an online game, like Elite Dangerous, and even accessable enough for us blind folks to play...that would be the perfect solution for me, with my competitive spirit and attitude.
Again, communicating, interacting, competing with an active human community, actually concurrency...that became an element of vital importance to me lately, especially since my total vision loss.

You know the urge, proving to other fellow gamers in the community, how we, veteran gamers, can still be as good, and maybe even better than them, even without sight, or at least still be a formidable opponent or conconcurrency to newer, sighted generations of gamers...at least in certain online games!

Ok, you may not share such a competitive spirit and approach, but surely you can understand, and accept it.

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2018-05-16 01:21:09 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-16 01:49:09)

Yeah, the mechanics and solution of Survive The Wild...that would perfectly suit my (so sophisticated) expectations as well!

A totally accessable Elite, as a stand-alone, so no browser-based, but still online game...that would be the best solution I can think of!

Maybe we should ask Sam Tupi to make it for us?
(just a wild thought, LOL)

As for the matter of Starmourn, and its 2D or 3D ship-maneuvering:
According to Ironcross, its developer often tends to make the mechanics of its games too complex, too sophisticated, at least starting from a certain point.
So I guess we should make our choice and decide, wether we would prefer a more simple, but less realistic way of ship maneuvering, in 2d, or a more realistic, but also more complex one in 3d, including the Z axis...which will, eventually, be too complex for us to handle...

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2018-05-16 01:34:42

Yeah, I can accept it, but only if a single player option is provided, otherwise it will end up like Swamp, Survive the Wild, and other similar games do for me, I pass them by with no interest in them, I'm not into online game playing where you have to compete with other people, competing against the game itself is more than enough to satisfy my gaming needs.

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2018-05-16 01:53:59 (edited by Caccio72 2018-05-16 01:55:12)

I guess a so called "optional PVP" would solve this matter, for our mutual benefit:
You don't wish to compete with other players, fine, you simply leave your PVP setting off, I, and those who  do wish it, just turn theirs on, that is all.
That is how it works in STW too after all, right?

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