2011-01-26 00:32:59

Hi all,
I am about to launch my first serious game (other than Soundfall :-) and so i would like to ask for some hints.
Tthere seem to be quite a couple of mailing list hosting servers out there; so far I have encountered Googlegroups, Smartgroups, Freelists, Yahoogroups and Topica, although I am not sure if all of them still exist. However, if I am not mistaken, all of them use the same basic software for managing the lists called Mailman, did I get that right? So I would like to know what the differences between the various hosting places are, which one has certain benefits over others and which you would recommend from your own experience. I would like to place my mailing list somewhere convenient, fast and easy. So Googlegroups is probably out of the loop right from the beginning, as they seem to dislike certain accounts and messages can get delayed or lost altogether if not sent from the page of the group directly. :-)
Many thanks in advance for any answers!
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-01-26 10:08:25

Hi Lucas.

I'd personally very much recommend googlegroups. The two main providers I've noticed have been googlegroups and yahoo groups, and yahoo groups seems to have no end of problems, ---- not accepting subscription requests, getting spam, randomly deciding to stop accepting mail from some people, and goodness knows what the list controls and administration options are like.

Google however I can confirm is both easy to subscribe to and to use. You don't actually need to tangle with any software, all the options are on the googlegroups page in the account settings (I know this myself sinse I moderate the entombed list).

Subscribing is also very easy for people to do, and they can also set their options fairly easily.

While there probably is independent software that would let you setup a list such as that the audeasy list uses, to me that wouldn't be necessary unless you wanted to do something specific.

So, my personal recommendation is to just use google groups.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-01-26 12:33:19

also I just wanna point out that smartgroups is no more for quite a while now, it went down in 2006.

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2011-01-26 15:02:25

Al right, thanks a lot for the tips and updated information, Dark and Pitermach. :-) Topica might be down as well as I haven't heard about it for at least the same amount of time as about Smartgroups. :-)
So I will check the administration side of Googlegroups and Freelists, cause I don't feel like getting an independent software to setup my own list, and my own domain for that matter just now either. wink It's just that I have experienced some issues with Googlegroups lists as an end user in the past, including the Rail Racer, Sound RTS and Time of Conflict lists, the ones with TOC being quite recent. It seems to refuse certain international email addresses such as my own. For TOC, I even had to setup a Google account just for the list cause it simply didn't let me go through for some reason, although I can't remember the details any more. And when I did get through, I had to do all settings and modifications directly from the page of the group, mail commands didn't seem to work for me. Finally, it sometimes took a very long time until I saw messages delivered to me, both my own bounces and posts of other members, etc, etc.... On the other hand, the Entombed list went really smoothly as far as I remember, so much in fact that I entirely forgot it was located on googlegroups. :-D
I'll see how Freelists looks like to the list owner, cause I am subscribed to several lists there, including the NVDA support one and a few czech ones, and it works really flawlessly and smoothly for me. We'll see. Thanks anyway for the directions. :-)
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-01-26 15:16:17

Funny to here the troubles you've had with googlegroups, I've had no such problems, in fact all the problems i've ever experienced have been yahoo related, and I can't even get into my details page on yahoo to check because of an image verrification thing which (unlike the ones google uses), has no audio option.

I wonder if there is sonething odd going on with a couple of those lists such as them being set on moderated mode or set to ignore mail from certain addresses and domains, both of which you can do if you want.

The other nice thing you can do with googlegroups is set up an announce only list as well as a discussion one. I'm on several for things like project.aon, which is how I get news about such things, but as they're announce only they don't clog my inbox with stuff.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-01-26 19:58:25

All right, I appreciate your helpful comments, Dark, but I have already applied for my lists at Freelists. All of the options you described are also provided there, plus many more, and their site is so accessible and very simply and yet thoroughly explained that I feel familiar with it all now even before my lists were actually registered. :-) I definitely recommend this provider for checking out, at least out of interest and for comparison.
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-01-26 22:04:35

Thanks for letting me know, glad it works and is accessible.

I've not actually encountered any mailing lists using it myself, so can't really make any comparisons one way or the other, but should I need to setup a list myelf I'll certainly bare freelists in mind as one to look at.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-01-27 14:36:33 (edited by burak 2011-01-27 14:38:31)

Hi,
As Dark, I recommend googlegroups. group creation and set your group's settings  and other things like that  verry much easy.

I post sounds I record to freesound. Click here to visit my freesound page
I usually post game recordings to anyaudio. Click here to visit my anyaudio page

2011-01-27 22:21:30

Careful with freelists. I believe that by free, they mean free as in free speech and open source, not free as in free of charge or free beer.  I tried to host some family tree related lists there, and my list application was rejected because it wouldn't be of use to the wider internet community or something like that. So did they approve your list yet?  If they're accepting lists for shareware andor closed source software now, it would be good to know that they aren't as picky as they were when I tried them several years ago.

2011-01-27 23:29:44

Sure, they accepted it just fine because I read their policy carefully. :-) In there, it is clearly stated that they will accept only lists that are related to technology in one way or another. If they were to accept all lists about anything and everything, they would really have to start charging for their services, or something along those lines. However, it was a somewhat hurried decision anyway. I was looking for information for just about two days, then applied for three different lists (game discussion in English, game discussion in czech and beta testing list in english) and only then discovered a wonderful domain name and webhosting provider here in the Czech Republic so I immediately got myself a domain in the .com level. I won't say anything more specific until I actually have a website and my first game ready though. If all goes well, this should be in early to mid February. :-)
They won't let me use any MLMS (mailing list management software) directly on their servers though, so I will have to do one of the following anyway:
1. Create a list somewhere else, probably use the ones I got on Freelists, and set up a mailbox on my domain that will serve as a forwarder to that list. That could cause some major confusion though, when people send their posts and requests to "my-list" (optional "-request") [at] my_domain.com and receive the resulting reply from "my-list" ("-request") [at] freelists.org. :-)
2. Get informed about a software solution that does not require to be installed physically on a server but rather resides on a central domain and lets you assign any addresses you like to the list, sending the actual email messages by means of PHP, for example. It should still be technically possible and the forwarding of messages from that other place would happen entirely behind the scenes so that it would not bother the user in any way. anyone ever heard of anything like that?
3. Simply scratch the idea of mailing lists altogether and use this wonderful PunBB forum instead. :-)
Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-01-28 00:12:07

Indeed, Lucas, I would suggest you to go ahead and create your very own discussion forum via PunBB, if you would not mentioned it on your last post. Yeah, let your community get the comfort of being a member of yet another PunBB-based forum! wink

Standing by the window, eyes upon the moon,
Hoping that the memory will leave her spirit soon.

2011-01-28 07:08:36

All right, I know this is probably what I'll eventually end up doing anyway. It just seems to me that quite a couple of VI users still prefer the good old method of mailing lists, with all its possible drawbacks, especially when traffic gets high, over a more or less unfamiliar web-based interface of a forum (although PunBB is incredibly accessible, easy and straightforward!) that they are forced to specifically log into and check if they want to look for new posts. Well, guess they'll just have to put up with it then. :-D After all, there are wonderfully many members here.
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-01-28 21:05:53

It is possible to tag topics on a forum so that it notifies you of new posts by email, if you have it set up right.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2011-01-29 18:10:04

Hi.
As per me,a PunBB forum will be the best.speaking for myself,I never could get used to the mailing lists.They seem to fill my inbox, and I have to read through things,which I don't want to read about to get to the one,in which I am interested.I have tryed a few like entombed and other such mailing lists,but alas.I couldn't keep up with them.But its just me,I suppose.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.
Follow me on twitter

2011-01-29 22:12:30

Yeah, all of you are right. Both have their disadvantages but I think a high traffic mailing list can be worse than a forum, especially if it's accessible like PunBB is, and where the only possible disadvantage I can think of might be the extra work involved when you want to read stuff on there. But anyway, if you are interested in something, you should do at least something to get it. :-D:-D
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-02-17 22:26:24

Hi Dark,
It's funny; I've had all my problem with Google Groups and noenw tih Yahoo GRoup. Thing is, when I tried to subscrbiet to tne ENtombed list with my hotmail it refulsed to let me; I had to use a google accout. Now for some odd reason it works fine with hotmail.

Best Regards,
Hayden

2011-02-18 10:41:44

I don't understand anything.

I post sounds I record to freesound. Click here to visit my freesound page
I usually post game recordings to anyaudio. Click here to visit my anyaudio page

2011-02-18 10:56:13

I did understand that but it might be a good idea to proof read one's posts before submiting them anyway. :-)
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-02-18 21:36:33

Hi,

Not to pull you Hayden into this, but Hayden is a fast typer generally. He's not doing it for fun, its just typos. Even sometimes when I do my homework I do typos, cause I type fast.

2011-02-19 01:15:27

Hi,
Yeah--I apologize for that; I just looked over it and it's quite a mess.
smile

Best Regards,
Hayden

2011-02-19 02:10:21

I am sure there are many more fast typers over here, Muhammed. I am also a pretty fast typer (last time I checked, I had a general rate of 400 key presses per minute), but you don't see too many typos in my posts, do you? My point is, it should be a common habit, just for the sake of being polite, to proof read what you have written before actually posting it. I don't know if this is one of the netiquette rules but I would be quite disappointed if it wasn't. :-)
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2011-02-19 11:41:11

I think the best general guideline is that you make a reasonable effort. Proof reading for typos isn't too difficult most of the time, and can be doubly important where both screen readers and non fluent english speakers are involved.

In other words, do the best you can manage without having to mess around excessively. Excessive messing around would involve looking up every word you type in a dictionary for example, this isn't an essay for school or university after all.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.