2006-01-21 13:37:33

Yeah a couple of games have surprised me with  sterio effects, particularly

the Gameboy Advanced Metroids, Metroid Fusion even has evil green and yellow

gelatinous creatures as energy pick ups.

I stil have quite a few games

that i need to play, not to mention the fact that Gunstar Heroes has just

been remade ---- now there's a great game in 2D.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2006-01-21 17:13:19

All I

meant by my last post was this:
Doubling the code in any program more than

doubles complexity, it could quite easily quadruple the complexity. It's

quite common for mainstream games to have borrowed concepts from other

games, but again they have far more resources and man hours at their

disposal. Modifying the shades of doom engine would be nigh on a complete

rework. It contains armour, but not armour classes in quite the same way.

The armour in a FPS (first person shooter) is a property of the player, the

armour in a RPG is a culumulative total of the armour level of all the items

worn. Weapons again, multiple weapons exist in shades of doom but every

knoife is identical to every other knife. It would need some serious

adaptations just to have different types of sword, unless you want people to

be limited to ten or so identical weapons. Implementing a full inventory

system to shades of doom would also be serious work, since at present which

weapons and how much ammo is a property of the player and would need to be

altered to check an inventory instead.

When I say a property I mean

this:
The game may or may not have an "object" to represent the player,

which has certain pieces of information attached. If it doesn't use this

model the information would simply be stored in plain "variables" not

connected to anything, and would still need serious adaptation. I don;'t

have experience of programming games, but were I to program one I'd use the

object method since you can use the same code to apply damage to monsters

and players and make it so much more flexible.

So it would be possible to

adapt the shades of doom engine, if GMA wished to. But GMA might not be

looking in that direction, and it would take as much effort to adapt the

engine as it did to create it to begin with (or maybe more). GMA are being

quite successful as things are, so the owner probably doesn't want to take

the gamble with a vast amount of time on something which hasn't been proven

to work in the market.

Not flaming, just trying to explain how much more

adaptation would be needed and how even a small addition to a program csan

result in a massive amount of work.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2006-01-21 21:28:46

I see, classes properties and objects are all things i'm used to from

studdying Logic and Meta physics.
I wasn't literally suggesting cutting

and pasting, I was just pointing out that there wouldn't need to be any

radical changes in thinking to develope an audio Rpg, the way there would be

to develope ---- say, a full 2D audio platformer with vertical as well as

horizontal scrolling. I also don't deny the fact that a lot of time and

effort has to go into making these things, I just feel that it would be

worth doing. As has already been said, most audiogames are about 15 years

behind main stream games in terms of complexity, but if nobody is willing to

push the boundaries further, things won't develope. I understand that

people who buy audiogames are a captive audience, theire aren't 50

companies making them, and so less competition than in the main stream

industry, therefore I could see a real danger of stagnation, with companies

producing as one gentleman in another thread stated.

"---- Yet another

crappy arcade game"

I'm not disagreeing that it wouldn't be hard work,

but the technology is there, and so I believe is the need.

Btw, Flaming

and disagreeing aren't the same thing, sinse one is productive and the

other isn't, and I don't mind people disagreeing at all (having studdied

philosophy for 5 years I'd have a problem if I did).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2006-01-21 23:28:18

Agreed.

Discord: clemchowder633

2006-01-22 04:42:12

I

didn't mean to imply that you meant literally cutting and pasting, and I

apologise if I gave this impression.

I'd just point out that whilst I

played mainstream games I repeatedly read articles complaining that

companies weren't taking chances on newer ideas, instead going for the

safer and more guaranteed money makers. It's very hard for a mainstream

company to do something new unless they're a major name. The mainstream has

had concerns about stagnation as much as us, it's just again that

conditions in our market are amplified due to the lesser number of titles. I

don't think it's so much a captive audience, more again that there are

safer options.

And I by the copying and pasting I was only pointing out

that doubling the features in a game, which could easily double the code,

would far more than double the complexity of the program. The more complex

the more development time, and the more potential bugs.

Progress in games

in my opinion is dependant on innovation, and innovation comes more strongly

when there is more competition and more heads to come up with the ideas. At

present there's not much more room in the audio games market as I can see,

it's not that there are too many companies just that it's too tight knit.

I don't think our market is the kind to foster the same competition as

mainstream games anyway, it's far more friendly.

Perhaps the way to go

would be more towards creating an open source project where many people can

volunteer.

Also I'd add that the last edition of Audyssey had an

interview with Josh de Lioncourt, who said he hopes to bring Aemon to

fruition at some stage but didn't give specifics of when. I don't think he

should give specifics given all the speculation that happens, but I believe

most sincerely that he is attempting this. He said his motivation was from

playing the original text based Aemon games, and so I'm hoping this

doesn't suffer any further setbacks.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2006-01-22 12:38:08

Indeed, and I'm glad there's been some news of Eamon. I think once

somebody gets the ball roling, it'll continue rolling, hence your idea of

open source is a good one. with what you say about the markit being more

friendly, i wonder if it's worth getting some form of contact to the

developers going, so that we can minimize the risk of the same thing being

produced over and over again. As you said yourself, sinse the markit is

small things get amplified, and while the main stream markit can stand the

releases of games that are basically cloned versions of better games, the

Audiogames markit can't.
Btw, i've done a brief bit of research on

Eamon, and if it's developed it might just serve as a really good baseline

for developement of lots of audio Rpg's sinse the Eamon system could be

used to create a lot of different adventures from traditional fantasy to Sf

to war, so once the system's in places, they'll only hav to create

different adventures for it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2006-01-22 15:19:49

That's

assuming they release an editor for it. I enquired previously about this,

and the response was that they weren't certain. I hope they do release an

editor, but it might contradict the previous plans to release expansions to

the Aemon game after the initial release. Still, I haven't seen a true

expansion pack for an accessible game whilst they're ten a penny in the

mainstream.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2006-01-22 18:04:36

well either way we'd get a number of Rpg's, not just one. expantion could

be one of the advantages Audiogames have sinse their not tied to cartridges

or disks or whatever.

Plus we can hope if Eamon is a success, others

will follow sute.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2006-01-22 18:56:51

Heh...
Muds shouldn't stop you from at least getting good grades. If your

that seriously adicted, you need to think of something else to do for a

while.

Personally, I've been adicted to several muds before (AVP, which

is the shit, but the staff can kiss my ass), Carrion Fields, Achaea, Mozart,

Ashavar...
Also, why are you complaining? If you like to play, keep on

playing! Maybe you can become the next admin and transfer players to their

deaths!... Heh...

Regards,
Kyle

2006-01-22 19:11:11

That's

why I always played on the PC, even when I did play mainstream games. I

never liked cartridges, and having the whole thing on just discs felt wrong.

I don't know if you heard of Command and Conquer Red Alert Retaliation on

the playstation? It was basically the Counterstrike and Aftermath add ons

for the PC sold as a stand alone game. Bit of a rip off in my

opinion.

And I don't know exactly what Mr Lioncourt was planning

expansion wise, its entirely possible they could be very similar to each

other but I hope not.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2006-01-23 00:31:01

Well speaking as someone who's always used game cartridges or disks,

expations are just fun, but sinse I'm getting to the point where I'll have

acquired all the games that I'm able to play and few are now being

produced, I'll probably be moving into freeware Pc stuff, and so looking at

lots of expations.
My old Favourite title Turrican, has been remade by

some great ameta developers who've also released a level editer,

unfortunately though you need Net Framework to get the extra levels to work

and whenever I try and install it it has arguements at start up.
i'm

guessing it's the university network, I'll try it again wehn I move out

and get a propper internet connection.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)