2021-04-06 00:00:03

liam literally had to stop playing because of the music. Heartbreaking to watch.

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2021-04-06 00:44:46

Okay well I finished the game, actually I ran into the last battle a little sooner than I expected, so have only completely the game for %89 and at character level 9.

I'll go back now and see what secrets I can find as I can now explore the rest of the world.

Very cool though, and I'll be looking forward to part 2. Actually the ending did confirm that one rather obvious plot twist I was expecting didn't happen, which was nice, though I hope the story is planned up to a final ending, since I always hate it when audiogame series and plots go unfinished.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-04-06 02:14:43

@michaelhoffman1976
So you can dodge the manticore, which has the same speed of the dragon, and the armor is slower than them, but you have problems with fighting because you can't dodge, right? It's a bit strange, how many attacks you do after dodging and then trying to dodging the next one? If you don't stop before they attack again you will get hit immediately when their next attack start, without having the chance to dodge at all

@dark
randomizing puzzles is just an idea at the moment, anyway an example of randomization might be that for example another corpse in the depths holds the shovel... stuff like that.
It might be a good idea to place an object before a monster inside the caves, i'll think about it.
Congratulations for finishing the game! Too bad for level 9, surely you don't need to grind at all for secret bosses
I wonder which kind of twist you did expect at this point... anyway Hell Hunter 2 will close without any doubt the story of Elyon as main character in Hell Hunter's universe (i already wrote the story)

@Tech Geek
I see, it wasn't planned at the beginning but at a certain point the battle theme started to make harder to hear some attacks and sometimes it's what makes some monster stronger, while i might have abused of this thing (any reference to zombie crows is merely coincidental) i guess in a future update i'll do something about it.
Oh, by the way is there any precise music which provided any issue? The first thing i can think are the normal battle theme and golem theme which are very loud (i toned them down in the full version), still you never mentioned it after playing the demo so i don't know...

Hello @stirlock!
Ohhhhh gosh... not again.
Now i'm gonna check the stream and see the exact trigger, in any case whatever it is it's gonna be fixed in a future update, as mentioned above
Could it be golem theme, or maybe the manor besiege incremental ambience? This one becomes very loud at a certain point. He didn't complain about the normal battle theme the previous time so it shouldn't be the culprit... maybe.

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2021-04-06 02:34:26

It was the battle theme combined with the plants just after the golem. His frequency loss makes it impossible for him to hear them with the theme.

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2021-04-06 02:36:35 (edited by Dark 2021-04-06 02:58:24)

Beware! intensive game ending spoilage ahoy, read no further if you haven't finished the game and don't want it spoiled!

@Tenkarider, I was expecting that elyon  would turn out to be Dracula's son, and was sort of glad he didn't since that one has been done to death.

I killed the prisoner boss, and got killed by the mist demon, so have gone back to grind for more blood vials before I try again.
I will admit, I don't like the fact that after killing the prisoner, this makes all monster battles pointless, since level 10 is the max level, so earning experience means nothing anymore. Perhaps either some more levels could be added given the really long post game content, or alternatively if that would make the game too easy, have the blood vial drop rate increased to earn one per battle.

Actually, I really like the variety of monsters and different fights in the game, and wouldn't mind some sort of collection system where you could say get information cards on each monster once you hit level 10, since there are some really interesting and nasty sounding creatures I'd like to know more about.

I was amused at the idea of the prisoner being the nosferatu's daughter, ala Lisa Trever from the remake of resident evil, with a little girl who'd turned into a mutant monster in a cellar (the typing ribbon made me laugh), but I still wonder why we can't get into those sealed doors in the manner and find out what happened to the Nosferatu's wife.

those spectral hazes are tough though, until I got used to how their sound kews work, though the mannikin was a surprisingly easy match owing to straight forward sounds and rythmic attacks.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-04-06 03:52:49

@stirlock
gotcha, the mentioned update might fix that, until then...

@Dark

Spoiler

Hahaha, that would have been too much boring as a twist, no way XD
Well i made a mistake in balancing the prisoner and ended up being slower than expected, actually it was supposed to be boss on whom the reccomended level to fight it was level 10 so the strongest boss
For avoiding blood vial time consuming farms i actually assigned a very higher drop rate to certain monsters, there's a post in the forum in which i mentioned who are those monsters below a spoiler tag, i think it was on page 3 or 4
There's also another secret boss that when you defeat it it will drop 10 blood vials (still it's probably stronger than mist demon and at the moment also of the prisoner i guess), there are also some other tricks you can do like not taking the blood vials from spots to collect them when you backtrack or from secondary quest and finally from the medical kits in the misty area and the wooden house, which will refill even if you got them before.
Oh, basically you're asking for a bestiary? That would be very like Castlevaniesque as feature, but sounds like a big one to implement.
Well, she's clearly a reference to Lisa Trevor, the moan from behind the metal door is literally that reference haha
I decided to not allow the access to the right wing of the manor for some reasons, still if you collect all the clues about the manor inside the game there's the chance the player might figure out the whole picture... that definitely falls inside the lore field but if the request about their lore is high enough, i might actually reveal it
The mannequin is a challenge due to its gimmick only if you fight it at level 8, it's a 100% drop rate blood vial and also an instant level up source for people who wants to jump immediately at an higher level

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2021-04-06 04:05:28

Wait, she was recommended at lv 10? ow, okay, no wonder killing the mimic felt a ton easier when I did that one after her.

Huh, honestly, if the mist demon is supposed to be easier than the other two, than the enemies are just rougher int he misty area. I don't know waht i keep doing wrong in the area, but I usually get randomly smacked by the hazes. I also can't figure out what triggers whatever sound the manaquin does that instantly kills me.

The answer to your question is forum.audiogames.net/search

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2021-04-06 04:19:38 (edited by Dark 2021-04-06 04:23:10)

Beware! Post game spoilage ahoy!

Yep, I followed the Lisa trever reference, and got the idea what the Nosferatu's daughter might be, though it would've been nice to get into the wing.
A bestiary would indeed be a large project, but it'd be nice to have some reason for all these later fights given that at this stage xp is useless meaning fights feel like a bit of a waste of time now.

I've actually beaten the mimmic, meaning I've killed what I believe are the three special bosses, the mist demon, the prisoner and the mimic, interestingly enough, I think the mist demon required most blood vials, since the prisoner didn't have a special attack, just was a very long battle, the mimmick was the hardest in terms of reflexes, but once I got when it used its special and so when to stop attacking and concentrate on dodging I got the idea.
Oh, and yes, the blood vial farm list in this topic was helpful, albeit I only consulted it afterwards.

the only thing as far as I can see now left to do is the girl's quest to find her father, though the thought of going through the entire caves of the abyss again looking for one specific corpse (which I already did), makes my head hurt :d.

@Vazbol, Agreed, admitedly I fought all of them at level 10, but imho the mist demon was hardest of the three, due to having the hardest special attack to dodge, and I believe the longest battle, though don't quote me.
I'd also say those spectral hazes are harder than a lot of the bosses, though part of that is that their attack sound starts off so quietly, so if the ability to turn down the volume of the normal battle music gets added to the game in the future that might also make them a bit less difficult.

What bothered me a bit more was the fact they were dropping tonnes of xp, and I wasn't benefiting from any of it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-04-06 04:30:23

@Vazbol

spoiler:

The mannequin's gimmick is that after 30 dodges you die. no matter what. you have to kill it before that happens but its normal attack is the strongest one compared all the other monsters so you have to be fast and not skrew dodges. At level 8 is really hard, at level 10 it will easily die before the 30 dodges will happen without the need of attacking it faster than normal so the gimmick will be pointless and the battle almost trivialized.
The spectral haze is simply the strongest normal monster of the game, but the fact is that due to the way it's designed it's cheap as hell: it's slow but its reaction range is totally extreme: it can decide to attack after a ranged value of 0 to 5 seconds, so when it attacks is completely luck reliant, but since the average value should be 2.5 seconds the player has much more chances to not being hit if decides to attack few times extremely quickly and then wait until it attacks again.
The other reason why it's so annoying is because the whisper attacks starts before you can hear it, besides it has a fake silent deadly attack which makes you hear a harmless whisper which stays on background for a bunch of time and easily covers the sound of the next attack, when they overlap the chance of dodging it becomes kinda 0% last but not least when the battle theme loudest part kicks in, if its next attack overlaps with it then it might be hard to be heard and so dodged. This randomness kinda makes it become a guardian which doesn't allow the player to pass behind misty area 4 if they are underleveled or worse...

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2021-04-06 05:10:14

Wait, so level 10 is the last level? And what's the weapon and armor upgrade something you guys keep talking about. Just wonder if it'd help me at all if i ever want to restart and finish off the first fight. it's crazy hard.

My sskype : mars.bhuntamata, add away buddy. If you think you are crazy, I am as well. I may be even crazier, who knows.

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2021-04-06 05:45:02 (edited by musicalman 2021-04-06 05:52:45)

Finally, I beat the game at 100 percent!

@Dark I felt the same as you, don't worry. But the corpse you need to find isn't all that tricky to spot once you know what to look for. I can't tell you where it is since I don't remember but...
Hint: You're looking for an identifiable corpse, one which will be easy for you to remember the second time 'round if you play the game again.

As for the topic of the music being too loud... I'm in two minds about it honestly. If this were a complex game with many overlapping interactive sounds, I'd have a problem with it, but Hell Hunter wasn't that bad for me, in fact I feel like the music/ambiance being loud adds to the challenge, and I always like a challenge. I guess I'm one of those people who doesn't want to give challenge up easily, even if it's cheap.

On the other hand I do understand the very real frustration for some people, especially those like Liam who have hearing loss. I can't empathize, but I get it to the extent that it relates to games. I have similar struggles with games with too much reliance on story, too open a world, or complex tactical rules. My brain gets very easily overloaded by that stuff. People have occasionally wanted me to play sims and other things, but I just don't think I could manage. I know there are parts of those games I would like if I sat down with it and somehow could do it. But yeah, action games are more my calling, and a narrative is cool if it's not too too deep. Hell Hunter struck a good balance for me in that regard. I didn't get all the references, but the game told me what I needed to know when I needed to know it, so I didn't mind.

Anyway I guess I'm just hoping that if some aspects of Hell Hunter are toned down, that it will benefit those who need it, while not taking too much away from those who were fine with it the way it was. Kind of an impossible request, but yeah...

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2021-04-06 06:21:41

@Mata, no weapons and armour upgrades, just levelling up makes you tougher and hit harder, and blood vials restore health. Yes, at the moment level 10 is the highest level, after level 10 gaining experience means nothing, which is a bit irritating.

If the hard fight your talking about is the battle against Dracula at the very beginning of the game, that is a fight you're intended to lose, though Tenkarider has confirmed there's an ultra secret special if you do manage to win, which is nearly but not quite impossible.

@musicalman, thanks for the hint about the corpse, I have an idea on where it might be now.
I know what you mean about the loud music/background providing challenge, but again, given that people have different speakers or headphones and different abilities with hearing, it does strike me as fair allowing people to set the volume as they want, after all I personally didn't have too many problems hearing attacks and still found the game challenging enough myself.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-04-06 07:00:47

@mata
Just to be sure... you're not quitting and restarting the game after you lose against Dracula, right? I mean, the game proceeds losing against him, starting the game and aiming to winning against Dracula won't work, it's more a thing you might want to do after beating the game, your only resource is 3 blood vials, the knowledge about the gimmicks of the game and the reflexes and strategies you built during the whole game, so it's completely skill reliant and 0% grinding reliant.

@musicalman
That's nice man! Congratulation and thanks a lot for playing until 100% Hell Hunter.
As you say the sound became part of the challenge, and i based the difficulty in part on partial sound camouflage, unfortunately challenge and accessibility don't get along at all... but that won't make me tone down the game: what i'm gonna make instead is probably adding 2 options to the inventory which get toggles on player's input, namely a sorta of easy mode flag that if it gets switched on, a generic sound easy to hear warns the player about an incoming attack; the second option would adjust the volume of BGM on toggle or something... and that should do the trick. On default they are not actived so if they will be ignored then you'll play the same Hell Hunter you just played... sounds good?

@Dark

spoiler

Fun fact: Anti-Nomen entered from the roof and when he broke the ceiling it passed through the rooms of the right wing so it actually entered inside... maybe if i allow the entrance in that area, it could happen sneaking inside from the hole created from it.
I have the feeling that the best solution for avoid a level escalation is dealing with battles in the caves of the abyss, your suggestion was good, also i'd add an already existing feature which would make spawn enemies at 50% rate, so less battles and more surprise factor, it definitely seems like there's no risk to not see at least once all the monsters of that cave, as far the player exits from there at a maximum of level 7 i'm fine with that.
Great job with secret bosses, actually the prisoner has an hidden buff when she starts to making sounds with the voice, but the fact you didn't notice the difference it's the proof that i have to fix the speed and the buff so that it gets obvious that something changed.

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2021-04-06 07:34:53

@Tenkarider, I don't know if a complete easy mode is necessary with sounds for incoming attacks etc, just ability to alter bgm volume in battle, since that I believe is the issue which some people are having, and is as I said, heavily dependent upon earphones and such rather than just game difficulty. Indeed, altering bgm volume is usually a standard option in most audiogames.

I'd like to get the full story of the Nosferatu's wife, since there is something we're definitely not told there. Smashing the siels would be a good way to learn more I think, though again, I'd be happier if there was a bit more reason to actually do battles post game since I admit wandering around getting nothing from monster battles is a bit urcsome.

I sort of got the idea that the prisoner was the longest out of the three super boss battles, so if she's going to get a nasty buff, maybe tweak her hp a bit. Actually, a way of telling enemy hp would be nice since in some fights I did wonder if I was having an effect, as some of the battles can be quite lengthy.

%100 completion finished now, just trying the Dracula challenge, which is indeed a challenge, albeit I do get a little sick of replaying the four tutorial battles each and every time I want to fight the count, but such is the way with secrets big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-04-06 08:44:15

I only quit once just to see if i could rematch dracula and beat him. But I knew the game progressed after that. It wasn't supposed to be won anyway or else it wouldn't have had the next story arc. But man, a save point inside the throneroom would be very very welcome.

My sskype : mars.bhuntamata, add away buddy. If you think you are crazy, I am as well. I may be even crazier, who knows.

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2021-04-06 16:00:23

Yeah I appreciate the idea of sound camouflage you were exploiting. I wonder if allowing the music volume to be adjusted in a limited range would help. The volume at its current level could be the default, and could also be maximum tbh. And the minimum could be at 1/2 or 1/3 level or something. I wouldn't want it completely off though. That would make the game boring, as I found some of the battles with no ambience less interesting.

Now that I roughly remember everything about completing the game, I might try it again in the near future and try to avoid battles especially in the later half, that way I avoid leveling unnecessarily and I can see how hard the game can get if you're underleveled. Lol

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2021-04-06 16:48:36 (edited by Tenkarider 2021-04-06 16:53:42)

@musicalman
Yeah, i might set some degree of volume adjustment, but it would annoy to me as well zero volume so that won't happen.

@mata
I understand what you mean, but i decided on purpose to not set any save point in the intro: the reason why i never defined Dracula a superboss is because it's a battle designed to not be won and that is true even after finishing the game.
It might sound fun but i think the reason why it's so hard is right because you have to start over if you want a rematch, and also the reason why the player will probably avoid to rematch him, and that's exactly what i want.

@Dark
Congratulation for 100% game completion! I hope you'll manage to win that battle
I hoped that could do the trick alone but the point is that no matter how i setup the volume of BGM, there are battles in which sound effects will cover enemy attack

spoiler

and the battle i'm talking about is definitely the one against the Kraken since cannon blasts will hinder the sound of incoming tentacles, or whisper attacks, or the last 2 torture attacks ecc... whoever has also partial deafness issue might have problem with that, hence an extra optional flag to activate easy mode
The prisoner has the highest defense of the game (except Anti-Nomen and Deis), the reason why it's supposed to be fought at level 10 is because the hits required to defeat her will dramatically increase otherwise, but if i had set up parameters properly the player would rather avoided to fight her before that level and so avoided to fight a battle which lasts longer than necessary, anyway her buff already exists but it's hard to notice and here is where i failed in setting her parameters, next time i guess.

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2021-04-06 18:17:28

Here's the thing though. You say there's a secret ending or whatever for winning that fight. If it's the case, at least give us a way to fight him just to get it. I know it's not intended to be won but why is there extra story there then if it's really the case?

My sskype : mars.bhuntamata, add away buddy. If you think you are crazy, I am as well. I may be even crazier, who knows.

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2021-04-06 18:32:11

I really don't like this game.  Too creepy in my opinion.  I personally prefer the fury driver

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2021-04-06 19:24:20

Ha, to each their own. I enjoy this one more than bq to be honest. I like horror stuff and this one gives me just that, though I wish it would be more creepy. The werewolf thrill among others is the best moment of all, just because I failed to realize what "turning around" in this case meant.

My sskype : mars.bhuntamata, add away buddy. If you think you are crazy, I am as well. I may be even crazier, who knows.

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2021-04-06 19:30:46 (edited by Tenkarider 2021-04-06 19:32:22)

Hello @Robokop! I respect your opinion, anyway Hell Hunter is notoriously a horror game, what did you expect?

@mata
Threre's a plenty of that stuff, i tried my best to do that, hopefully enough...
I wonder which point of the game you reached so far, anyway

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2021-04-06 19:38:11

I'm at the manor. Didn't get to finish all the doors because i messed up my save and have to reload from the dining hall. Busy with transcription and other stuff today so haven't yet touched it. I'm happy how it is now. It gives me thrill more than creep tbh. The reveanant part was epic, at least. I forgot to save after the queen door so I have to replay the whole thing again lol.

My sskype : mars.bhuntamata, add away buddy. If you think you are crazy, I am as well. I may be even crazier, who knows.

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2021-04-06 23:12:20

@Robokop, oddly enough as I said in the fury driver topic, I was less keen on that game, rather for a similar reason, since the hole mean streets crime ethos is less my thing than fantasy/horror, its just a genre preference in this case.

Dracula has had to wait, because my lady's borrowing my machine to play at the second. She's actually also having trouble with distinguishing the attack sounds for the plants in the mountain pass area, so perhaps the ability to lower the volume would be helpful there.

I actually like the idea of a super secret in defeating dracula, for all its hard to get, and intend to earn it myself when I can, indeed I think I see the way to do it, and have his pattern down, it'll just take several tries, good reflexes and a little good luck.

As to the atmosphere, myself, I loved how down right creepy the game was. A lot of moments caught me off guard, like the time when going to sleep in the cabin, and often, even occasions when I expected something nasty, the sound presentation was better than I thought, EG on the prisoner and the mimic bosses.

I liked, or at least appreciated the torture, since honestly I didn't think the game would go there, although things were dragging a bit by the end of that sequence, and being so lost in the caves took away from things slightly. Then again, the way Dais kept being visible in the game afterwards was wonderfully creepy, indeed I was hoping for a chance to confront either her Spector or her memory.

My only miner criticism of the game from a story perspective is the final boss!

Beware! continue no further lest yee want spoilers for the game's ultimate ending.

the game does a great job of letting you defeat various opponents, and overcome some really nasty challenges, then at the end, the thing that's dogged you throughout the hole game is taken out by someone else who only turns up at the end? That felt like an anti climax, since I really would have preferred if I got to deliver the final blow myself, even if Alucard helped.

I was also not entirely sure if Alucard was supposed to have started the plague in the port village, and was expecting Elyon to ask about it. We find its not the vampire in the underground passage, and I can get that Alucard took him out, but I'd have thought Elyon would've asked what was going on there exactly, unless I got the wrong end of the stick with respect to where the plague was coming from.


As to BlindQuest, Bq2 is in a bit of a mess right now owing to the crafting and combat updates not intigrating with the rest of the game, but I've already mentioned that in the Bq2 topic so won't mention again here.
Bq1 I enjoyed, , since I just liked the fantasy environments, creatures and chances to explore while wailing away at monsters, although it wasn't really a game that surprised, scared or particularly challenged me at any point. Maybe I have a softer spot for it because it came at a point my lady was in radio therapy for her cancer (which seems to have gone thank goodness), and so wandering around weird environments, listening to wonderfully hammy narrative playing the hero  and easily smacking in monsters was a nice distraction at the time.

I'd say at the moment, of all of the audio.it rpg titles, hell Hunter has done the best job in both atmosphere, combat and story structure, having both the best soundtrack, best laid out map, and having made best use of its combat and story mechanics,
so fantastic job there, I'll definitely be looking forward to more games in the Hell hunter universe and/or updates to the main game.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2021-04-07 00:01:26

How many games will be in the Hell Hunter series? I hope that this series go for a long time.

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2021-04-07 01:04:40

@mata
Oh, i see... still a bunch of stuff to do, nice.

@cyco
I actually don't know the real answer to the question, but while i know at 100% that Hell Hunter 2 exists, if there will be further sequels after the 2, then Elyon won't play the role of the main character in that case, since his character development will reach the top climax in the next game.

@Dark
Fair enough, still i didn't have idea she went through a lot, i'm sorry about that... anyway i hope she enjoys the game, if you feel like sharing her experience as she proceeds then i'll be glad to hearing more (unless she actually stopped her run in the mountain pass...)
Yeah i kinda love the super ultra secret stuff in games and i never miss the chance to insert them when i work on a game!

spoiler

I can understand, still for Elyon it wasn't phisically possible to backstab the Anti-Nomen at its core, it would never stopped to facing toward Elyon and when it went berserk it was beyond fast than the beginning, maybe if Elyon could teleport or something but that wasn't the case... the real moment in which Elyon won against the Anti-Nomen was the one in which he decided to stop running away and fought it no matter the outcome, that is also where the battle theme changed and stopped being creepy (or something), since Elyon didn't fear it anymore, that's the moment in which Alucard decided to help Elyon, since at that point Elyon's death was simply out of context. One might argue that perhaps in the last battle it was the Anti-Nomen the one who started to having fear, i wonder...
About the plague Elyon got the answer when the tourists escaped from the village: they came from outside and one of the two already had the plague before entering inside the village so the tourists caused all that mess in the harbor village and they will spread it further since no one stopped them... (that was part of the reason why the dying vampire laughed at Elyon)

Thanks a lot for your opinion about the game! I hope you'll like as much the sequel too!

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