2021-04-01 14:14:34

Hi all, so i'm currently taking this tech class thing ware i guess you can learn how to coad and stuff.
The teacher didn't no what to do with me at first but i guess she searched ways for blind people to learn how to coad and she found quorum. What i want to nois is it a good place to learn coading, i tryed to do one of the things assignments. Ware your supposed to make some audio with 2 cars passing you.
Anyways ile give a link to the website so you can look at it if you wish.


Discord, pkpkpkpkpk#8930. yeah it's stupid, but it's a stupid name for a stupid person, so.

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2021-04-01 15:51:01

No, don't do this.  It's a terrible idea unless you have very particular needs, like being at a school for the blind that doesn't have a clue.  That's a research project by some HCI people that got traction in blindness land for idiotic reasons, and the first thing it does is intentionally use different vocabulary and syntax than everything else because they're studying how we might make programming easier to learn.  This means that you end up in blindness coding ghetto.  Think BGT but not just for games and by a university instead of one person.  If you're never going to do programming again it doesn't matter.  if you're going to stick with programming, it'll set you back and you'll have to unlearn stuff and relearn the standard terms and syntaxes and things.

I can think of maybe 2 mainstream programming languages that are used for actual software development that you'd have trouble with due to blindness and I know of blind people using both of them.  You might run into trouble if your school is using one of the graphical educational ones.  Otherwise, there's no reason you can't use what the class is using already.  I understand where your teacher is getting the idea, but "he's blind, therefore he needs a blindness specific resource" is not at all the case.

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2021-04-01 16:30:40

Agreed with Camlorn here. I have written some decent instructions over in the articles room on how to get started with Python if that is what your school uses. I'm still working on editing the second two guides, but only the first one should matter for your purposes. It is going to be a bit before I can deliver updates, migration to a new computer is hard. Like I said, though, you should only care about the first part anyways. If your school uses Visual Studio, you can use that as well, but it's a bit... clunky to say the least. If you look through the topics in this room you'll find some helpful tips for using VS with NVDA. Using VSCode is also possible, though I still haven't entirely figured it all out. To be fair, though, I only allocated like 15% of the usual effort I put into things, so when I have more time I'll try again. IntelliJ and Eclipse work with NVDA as well, though the former may be funky do to its dependency on Java Access Bridge which works for only a selected group of users for some unknown reason. All in all, though, talk to your teacher and tell her that what she found sucks (Okay maybe I shouldn't be a diplomat) and that she should get you started with Python / Java / C#. I guess you could technically do C / C++, but those are a lot for your first language and can be discouraging to learn at times.

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2021-04-01 19:45:47 (edited by Dragonlee 2021-04-02 17:21:22)

what is your teacher using to teach programming? I am assuming it is one of those really crappy visual coding apps for total beginners.

in which case tell them to teach programming using a real language and not using some toy that doesn't resemble real programming beyond the complete basics.

otherwise if they are just teaching using python, Java, or whatever and they are just assuming that programming using those isn't possible if you are blind then tell them they are a pretentious ******* *******... or don't do that, but if that is the case then that really pisses me off

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2021-04-01 20:44:03

Yeah no, don't. I looked at it and really wasn't impressed. If you ever want to do anything with programming aside from just take this class to get a credit or whatever, use another language. For example, in C:

for (int i = 0; i <= 10; i++) {
    // ...

In Quorum:

repeat 10 times
    // ...

It has libraries and let's you get off the ground running for audio games, but nothing else, which is sad. Like others are saying, if you're like using Scratch or something (stupid piece of shit), ask your teacher for a different language. Or the same language they're learning, if it's an actual, ya know, language?

2021-04-02 11:09:34

well, were all in sixth grade... So like were not useing the main ones that everyone else uses, i don't even no if their doing coding. The teacher says their making games with like, blocksals and game star and stuff like that. And even if my class is ending next week lol i still want to keep trying.

Discord, pkpkpkpkpk#8930. yeah it's stupid, but it's a stupid name for a stupid person, so.

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2021-04-02 15:36:21

Yeah, even if they're not doing programming,  a variant of BASIC would be better than Quorum.

2021-04-02 15:47:00

They're going to have an easier time than you anyway, because those sorts of educational tools are designed for instant gratification, and those games and whatever are basically built in and they're just turning things on like flipping light switches.  That's simplified, but without some sight involved explaining exactly how they work isn't really easy.  Fortunately, if you want to actually code stuff, they're also irrelevant.  I can think of exactly one graphical programming language of any value, and it only has value to advanced audio people who want to design synthesizers.

A number of us tried at your age and now make large amounts of money.  Or audiogames, whichever matters to you more, though most of us making large amounts of money discovered that being adults doing programming as a dayjob leaves little time left over for audiogames and such.  Programming is the kind of thing you want to be good at if that makes sense, whether you are or not.  Unfortunately wanting doesn't necessarily make you good at it.  But it is a meal ticket for the rest of your life, and a lot more besides.

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2021-04-02 17:17:20 (edited by Dragonlee 2021-04-02 17:20:23)

I keep forgetting how young so many of the users on this forum are. I really need to stop imagining everyone as adults...

Honestly at your age you don't need to be in a big rush to start programming. It might be worth it to wait for a course where they don't use such a kid-oriented tool and instead using a bona fide programming language.

With that said, go ahead and start learning programming even now if you really want to. Personally, I only wrote my first line of code at 14, but only started seriously learning it at 16. A lot of people even start later, some taking it up in their first year of college. And some even later, so just saying you don't need to be in a big rush now.

But keep in mind that game programming is hard, particularly for a blind dev, since you won't have access to things like unity. You can much sooner learn to develop a cloud-based data processing pipeline than a medium sized audio game.

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2021-04-02 17:50:56

Yeah, I mean: I did a massive media transcoding cluster at one of my jobs in a couple man-weeks of effort.  Synthizer has taken a man-month or two and my MMO engine project is estimated to have something to show for it sometime in mid 2022 or something like that.

Games with the toy tools you use in 6th grade are easy because the toy gives you 90% of the game and you have very little room for flexibility and creativity in mechanics and all that, but even doing advanced stuff with Unity is harder than most professional programming jobs.  I could go into why, but you're probably not quite at the point where going into why is useful.  Not saying don't do it or anything like that either.  Just don't be discouraged, if you insist on going down the path of jumping straight into audiogame programming, and maybe star by learning to program before you start by trying to learn to make the next Swamp.

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Twitter: @camlorn38