2020-12-13 20:22:40

I'm not personally so good with something that can only be used for witch hunts.  I'm also not so good wit this being sparked as easily as jonikster either.

I want to be clear that I'm not standing up for him, but more blind 15 year olds are like that than not because being blind is just a great way to be like that.  I find them annoying and immature, yes.  But I think that them being the example we use for why this is justifies just makes the point of why we shouldn't.  You can just ignore them.  You don't have to go add some machinery to the forum because you didn't have enough willpower to disengage.

If we did something like this I'd probably leave.  It's not going to get aimed at me, but I'm not good participating in a community where you can just vote people off the island because they made you mad.  Audiogames.net is really small already and has lost most of the high profile devs with a clue.  This seems like a great way to just keep shrinking it further.

Cultures of fear suck.  This is the first step toward that.  People shouldn't be in line because they have nowhere else to go and if they say something unpopular they get banned.  That's terrible.

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2020-12-13 21:04:18

@26, I supported it not because of jonikster, yeah, he's annoying, but not rule breaking, I supported this due to a recent event where a certain user editted their posts, then went on some attension seeking sprees, and nothing was really done about it.

You ain't done nothin' if you ain't been cancelled
_____
I'm working on a playthrough series of the space 4X game Aurora4x. Find it here

2020-12-13 21:04:47 (edited by LordLundin 2020-12-13 21:07:05)

@19 nice ad hominem that contributes nothing to the conversation. I don't come around on this forum that much because  I don't like what it has become, but if I see an opertunity to preserve what remains I'll jump on it, which is why you find me in these sorts of topics.
@20 the admins using this is exactly what I'm concerned about.

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2020-12-13 21:11:26

I'd argue that even jonexter's post verge on being outright discriminatory, and his constant negative contributions should be enough to get him out of here given the amount of time they've been allowed to persist. It's 1 thing to just be annoying, quite another to be a literal thorn in the side of the forum. And weather you like it or not, he will always get the attention he so desperately craves unless we do something about him.

2020-12-13 21:57:39 (edited by Exodus 2020-12-13 21:58:56)

Yeah... This is terrible and will just end up being used by the larger cliques of the forum to run off individual members who hurt their feelings.
The forum is already in a precarious position, it's moderator group is unable to be held accountable for the inconsistent actions it takes, any attempt to do so gets you the mantra of BAD FAITH BAD FAITH BAD FAITH chanted at you like it's some kind of shielding magic and developers have left over it.
Let's not tumble what's left into the abyss ae?

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2020-12-13 22:25:48

I get what the last few posts are saying. It really is a dangerous thing and I made this more in the hope of exploring it, like we have, then instituting necessarily. I still think though that something needs to be done about how some users do nothing with skeet under the rules for years and cause nothing but toxicity to the forum as a whole

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Or is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality

2020-12-13 22:26:11

Wel, thinking about it it does sound abit like the old meedyevel times. People who commited a crime were dragged and tyed up at the towns market place for all to see and those who felt like it could go ahead and insult or beat the person tyed there before the tribunal went ahead with their judgement.

Although not extreme, this public failure clause vote does seam abit like what I described, only virtual and adjusted to modern times.

Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2020-12-13 22:46:36 (edited by redfox 2020-12-13 22:46:57)

I'm with Gym here.
I thought back on it and you guys are right that it would turn into an insult fest, because most of the users here just aren't capable of staying calm in a situation like that. I say that mostly due to the fact that the majority of this community seems to be in their teens.

----------
“Yes, sir. I am attempting to fill a silent moment with non-relevant conversation.”
“You don’t tell me how to behave; you’re not my mother!”
“Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.” – Data (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

2020-12-14 00:02:21

Even if this isn't put in place, which I definitely can and do see the flaws in it, I wish that something would be done to keep the riff raff in line.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2020-12-14 03:39:08

I agree with LordLondon and those who call this bullying.


This could go bad very fast. A lot of you don't like that I'm being posative or at least trying to be on joniksters' thread. Alright you don't like me, I've made leaving posts in the past, so you use this new system to, ban? Report? me. And then bam! I'm band again for basicly using the forums as it was meant to be used.


No, I don't agree with this at all.


As LordLondon said; you don't have to read the posts, just use your h key to move on.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 03:47:38

Having thought about this a bit more, it's a forum. This kind of stuff happens. Hell, go on reddit, you'll see people talking crap all the time but nothing is done because they've not actually broken the rules and as much as person one might not like person two talking crap, all they can do is report it to the mods and move on.


The every day people of a site should not be able to control who leaves and stays and if that happened here, I could see this site being just another smaller blind comunity who would lord their power over others.


this is the internet people, stuff happens, just move along.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 03:56:37

You cannot compare us to Redit, that's rediculous. We're a tightly knit community where drama spreads like a tidal wave on a pond. I gotta work on similes...
I'll reiterate again, the point would be that we would have to give evidence, complete with links, and probably several paragraphs of text written in a clear and concise mannor detailing why the user is at fault. We also said nothing about banning. The users also don't have control, it's the mods that would.

----------
“Yes, sir. I am attempting to fill a silent moment with non-relevant conversation.”
“You don’t tell me how to behave; you’re not my mother!”
“Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.” – Data (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

2020-12-14 04:23:18

@redfox, it's actually not as rediculous as you might think.

Reddit has subredddits, basicly smaller forums where you can talk about thing x, and only thing x, for example cars.

There are mods who are part of these forums, like here.

I don't really care what happens to this site as I feel it's old and clunky and that if something else comes along, peple will jump on that straight away.


Perhaps I didn't fully understand post 1. but honestly? I'm not going to go back and read it as i've put what I thought was a good response and will now move on, unless you respond asking about reddit again, if so; I'll try and explain a bit more but apart from that, I think i'm moving on from this thread.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 04:30:19

At Redfox well, even if moderators have the final say in the matter it would basically path the way for certain users to possibl start bullying less liked forum members. It doesn't matter if the shit they come up with is well, made up or real, the thing is, they can legally start threats about other users and with the maturity levels in this comunity, sorry to say, but this possible change has the appeal of a slip and slide over a raptured ceptic tank.

Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2020-12-14 04:42:03

Reddit isn't the holy grail of social media. I mean, I like it, but it isn't without its problems. Oh, wait, we're not allowed to acknowledge problems in Brad's world, it's supposed to be all cute and cuddly rainbow land. Well, Reddit is full of ass hole, power trippy mods.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2020-12-14 04:48:42

@GrannyCheeseWheel, why, exactly, are you like this?


I've done nothing to you apart from not give in to your negativity.


Yes, reddit has its issues, like every other site but unlike those sites, you can choose to subscribe to a sub and if you don't like it, just leave.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 05:16:49

So you're OK with mods doing whatever the hell they want just because they feel like it. Good to know. And hey, I could just leave, right? Even if I was dealt with unfairly by mods, yeah there's an answer right there. Even if hey, some posts get flagged by a bot mod for slurs that weren't contained anywhere in the post. Yeah.

But you're not paying attention, because I didn't say I hated Reddit, I just said Reddit isn't the holy grail of social media. What's wrong with that? Oh, it's the fact that I'm not jumping on the toxic positivity band wagon, right? Well, gee, I'm real real sorry about that. It could be the fact that I'm a bit jaded. It could be the fact that the world sucks ass sometimes. It could be a whole slew of things.

One thing I'm not doing is telling someone that no matter what they want to do in life, they should just go for it... because everyone's so special and unique and treasured, right? But I'm not telling them to fuck off either. I'm not telling them that they have no chance in hell. All of us have attempted to point out the incorrectness of his statements and assertions. Why? Maybe so that he actually stands a better chance? Maybe because we dont' like to see sweeping generalizations made about a whole group of people?

Hey but that doesn't matter right? Because if you have dreams, you should go for it... Just go for it.

Why am I like this? Because I'm about sick of you. I'm sick of your cry me a river because I can't get my way posts. I'm sick of you contributing virtually nothing most of the time, and expecting you to get your way all of the time. I'm tired of the him hawing, ima leave, ima be here, ima leave, ima stay foolishness. Then you're actively messing with this guy, and you're being stubborn about not wanting to see what the potential ramifications of your actions could be. Note, that I said could, and not would, because it's still speculative, but still.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2020-12-14 05:32:24

Oh wow, you are so angry over basicly nothing.


Mods band you from a sub, ok, move on to the next one. The mods band me from here and I'll admit I wrote an email to them with no response, but then guess what? I got on with my life.


I haven't left here yet, I may in the future who knows, only me, that's who, and the reason is because this place, as small as it is is the only place for audiogame related stuff. That's it.


If you're sick of my threads, just don't read them, it really is that simple.


By the way, this thread and that thread have nothing to do with one another but I'll talk about that thread once on here as I don't wan to fill up the topic with repeating myself posts.


I do back that Op, I can't find his name at the moment. Yes we should all reach for our dreams and try our best, we are all aware that blindness can suck at times but I personally am not going to sit in a corner and bitch about how unfair the world is, instead; I'm going to get off of my arse and try my best to do something about it.


IF he actually does imigrate, hopefully that will be a great experience for him.

You are very bitter and angry, I'd recommend a walk to calm yourself down because I will no longer be responding to your silly angry rantss as they surve no perpus apart from attacking me and my posativity.


I'm not posative all the time but guess what? It feels good to be posative, try it, truely, it's a nice feeling and so much less stressful than the pore me thing.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 05:51:39

Yes you will, I can easily dig up posts where you've made a liar out of yourself... provided of course, they were made after the delete button was disabled and you haven't edited every single one to contain nothing. You'll respond though, you can't help it.

Brad wrote:

Mods band you from a sub, ok, move on to the next one. The mods band me from here and I'll admit I wrote an email to them with no response, but then guess what? I got on with my life.

So you're OK with people just doing whatever they want to you with no accountability on their end? I'm not. And yes, it's happened, and yes, I've moved on, but it doesn't mean I can't bring it up where it's relevant. But hey, if you're that OK with people walking all over you, if I'm ever in the UK, I'll maybe pay you a visit, take everything you own, hock it and have one hell of a night out on the town.

Brad wrote:

I haven't left here yet, I may in the future who knows, only me, that's who, and the reason is because this place, as small as it is is the only place for audiogame related stuff. That's it.

Why does anything have to be large to be good? That is an odd quantifier.

Brad wrote:

If you're sick of my threads, just don't read them, it really is that simple.

Wish I could bud, but you tend to be jumping into places I do want to keep up with.

Brad wrote:

By the way, this thread and that thread have nothing to do with one another but I'll talk about that thread once on here as I don't wan to fill up the topic with repeating myself posts.

Too late, you've already done it and have taken the topic off course.

Brad wrote:

I do back that Op, I can't find his name at the moment. Yes we should all reach for our dreams and try our best, we are all aware that blindness can suck at times but I personally am not going to sit in a corner and bitch about how unfair the world is, instead; I'm going to get off of my arse and try my best to do something about it.

I don't think you'll find anything of that nature in that entire thread. Please stop twisting our words and intentions.

Brad wrote:

I'm not posative all the time but guess what? It feels good to be posative, try it, truely, it's a nice feeling and so much less stressful than the pore me thing.

When have I said that, or even implied it? There you go, twisting my words and intentions again. That's not a very nice thing to do you know.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2020-12-14 06:24:34

Alright, you're right, I can't help responding but after this post, that's it.


you wrote: Yes you will, I can easily dig up posts where you've made a liar out of yourself... provided of course, they were made after the delete button was disabled and you haven't edited every single one to contain nothing. You'll respond though, you can't help it.


I like to capitalise my I's and fix spellings where I can but holy crap, you actually think I'd go through my entire post history just to make myself look good, I don't care at all about that, perhaps the old Brad would have but not anymore, that would be a huge waist of my time.


You wrote: So you're OK with people just doing whatever they want to you with no accountability on their end? I'm not. And yes, it's happened, and yes, I've moved on, but it doesn't mean I can't bring it up where it's relevant. But hey, if you're that OK with people walking all over you, if I'm ever in the UK, I'll maybe pay you a visit, take everything you own, hock it and have one hell of a night out on the town.


There's nothing you can do, as far as I know on reddit once you're banned. Feel free to mention it as much as you like, it doesn't bother me at all. No I'm not ok with being walked over, otherwise I would have just accepted what you guys said in the other thread and agreed with you. Instead i'm backing this guy.


you wrote: Why does anything have to be large to be good? That is an odd quantifier. I'm confused but alright, if social media sites were small, do you think they'd get as much trafic as they do now? Of course not. This place is the only place I can go for audiogame news, that's the only reason apart from responding to a couple of off topic posts, i'm here.


you wrote: Wish I could bud, but you tend to be jumping into places I do want to keep up with. Oh come on, really? Just use your damn H key, it exists for a reason.


You wrote: Too late, you've already done it and have taken the topic off course. Did I? Oops, I honestly didn't mean to do that.


You wrote: I don't think you'll find anything of that nature in that entire thread. Please stop twisting our words and intentions. Alright, I'll do better next time.


you wrote: When have I said that, or even implied it? There you go, twisting my words and intentions again. That's not a very nice thing to do you know. It isn't, you're right, but you see; you started being negative and attacking me so I informed you that posativity is a good thing.


Good day, I will check this thread for your response but will not be responding. I've had enough of this crap.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 07:44:01

@39, that's why I suggested that links to offending materials be put in place, so false claims and accusations can't be tossed aroound, and used as evidence.

You ain't done nothin' if you ain't been cancelled
_____
I'm working on a playthrough series of the space 4X game Aurora4x. Find it here

2020-12-14 13:54:15

You're lying to yourself again.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2020-12-14 14:36:33

Moderation:
Brad and Granny Cheese Wheel, I'm issuing you both a caution. Seriously, just leave each other alone. Neither of you is breaking rules, but the constant back-and-forth, which in this case has led to topic derailment, is pretty ugly. Cut it out.
This is not a statement of judgment on any specific positions you might hold, by the way. As it happens, I actually think both of you have brought up interesting points to consider. But please, if nothing else, just let this cool off and stop fighting with each other. Both of you have been around long enough to know how the other one reacts; both of you seem to have trouble letting shit go (I do too sometimes, by the way, so this is just me observing a trait, not mocking or attacking you).

End moderation

Now as for the issue at hand, here's my angle on it.

We already have the community failure clause. We can already look at a situation and decide that even if the offender hasn't outright broken rules, it might be time to invoke the clause because they're skating on the edge, and have been doing so for a long time. No one admin or mod can enforce this clause, either; it's a team effort with a fair amount of oversight involved. We set it up this way precisely so that it couldn't be used as a weapon to follow through on a grudge or to squeeze someone out of play, so to speak. I trust that even if one individual had the power to use this clause, none of us would misuse it, but I still think it's important to put checks and balances on things, thus why it's the way it is right now.

When you say you want to be able to enforce this clause yourselves, or at least to have a much more active role in doing so, you are, in essence, saying that you don't think we're doing a good enough job at it. If you thought we were doing a good job using this clause for its intended purpose, you would have no reason to want to start witch-hunts yourselves. You already have the tools necessary to get the attention of the administration if you think there's a user flying under the radar that we need to investigate. To my eye, at least, this system is already basically working as intended. It's not meant to be abused to remove weird people from the forum. It's meant to crack down on people who may be crafty enough to mince around the edges of the rules for long periods of time, doing damage to the forum or its users in the process. Normally, bad apples get reported or just flat-out get noticed by us, and we deal with them when their behaviour crosses the line (Moonwalker, Simter, etc).

My advice: take a breath, and realize that all you're really asking for is to do more of the administration's job, which, in this instance, I think we're already doing fairly well. If you want to get our attention about something, you have the means of doing so. If we don't act, it's because we don't agree that the person or their behaviour warrants enforcement of the community failure clause. And even if a proposition like the one set out early in this thread went through, it would still ultimately come down to our judgment. It wouldn't matter how many of you voted someone off the island if we determined that there wasn't sufficient reason to enact this clause in the first place. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that a certain level of community uproar should compel us to act as you wish? And that's a whole other level of problem. Start down that slope, and everything turns into a vote. don't like someone? Vote him out. Don't like something the mods did? Overthrow their ruling by shouting loudly enough. Want an issue the mods are considering to just fuck off and die already? Vote loudly enough, and we'd be compelled to follow your lead. We would, in essence, be puppets, and that's not why we're here.

Like it or not, most forums - whether it's here, Reddit or elsewhere - are a form of hopefully benevolent autocracy. People have power over you, and can exercise that power perhaps against your wishes. You have a say in how that power is used, insofar as you have a right to plead your case, explain yourself or argue against a decision. The rule of law is neither uncaring nor ironclad. However, at the end of the day, the big decisions will rest with a person or people over whom you do not ultimately have full control.
Reporting someone who's dancing around the rules is totally okay. Asking the mod team to look at something is also okay. By all means, please feel free to keep doing this. But expecting a setup where the community makes decisions and the admins enforce them because they've got the tools while the community itself does not? I don't think that's going to work.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2020-12-14 14:41:17

@jayde and everyone else, I apologise.


Jade is right, I have a feeling inside me to get the last word or at least to continue the talk until my points are made.


But I'll try my best to work on that an state my point and back off for a while, then; if the person is attacking me, i'll back off again and then decide whether the post is worth responding to with an, ok, or a longer post.

I'm gone for real :)

2020-12-14 18:26:51

Jayde, I apreciate the well written perspective. I wrote the initial post hoping to be convinced one way or another, I didn't have much of a real oppinion, just thought I'd lay out an idea if something were to be done, but i think you've convinced me quite well that this wouldn't be an amazing idea, and it would be kind of redundant.

----------
“Yes, sir. I am attempting to fill a silent moment with non-relevant conversation.”
“You don’t tell me how to behave; you’re not my mother!”
“Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.” – Data (Star Trek: The Next Generation)