2020-11-18 15:59:20

It might put off potential new signups who don't know the full purpose of the registration topic though.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

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2020-11-18 16:56:20

@26 if they read the topic though, especially the first post, it would be assumed (at least by me), that they are stupid bots, and are not being allowed in.

2020-11-18 17:08:32

The unfortunate thing is that they aren't bots.

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2020-11-18 17:35:41

@26, if we're talking about sighted devs, its a pretty high chance they'll see the following:

If your new to the forum, please introduce yourself here so we can be sure your a human and not a robot. We don't need a novel, just something to the effect that your a real person who's interested in audiogames. Once you've introduced yourself, we can unrestrict your account so you can post anywhere you want on the forum.

Who has any time for the letter h?

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2020-11-18 18:14:01


Join me in eliminating BGT from the forum.
It's very easy, if you see a topic about BGT, simply don't reply to it.
If you're thinking about creating a topic about BGT, just don't.
Doing these things will cause all such topics to sink to oblivion.

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2020-11-18 18:56:23

@28 no, they are not. But it could even show why that section has to exist. I remember it annoyed me a bit at first too.

2020-11-19 15:31:23

What we need is active and effective webmasters who can get us off this damn punBB.

VIP Lounge. an active discord server for blind and vi people to chat in!
If you found this post helpful, amusing or funny, please thumb it up!
To get in touch, please email me using the email link below this post. If you prefer, you can also send me a friend request on discord. I'm thetechguy#6929. Please do not send me a PM on here as I don't check those often.

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2020-11-20 01:01:01

they wouldn't know it isn't spam bots. But this forum is full of people who don't know how to shut their mouths, so we generously tell every newcomer the flaws our forum and community has. Yes  they should know some major flaws, but we always talk about the negative things out in the open. And my space bar is broken, now I'm pissed!

I'm probably not making much sense in this post. Fuck English and my inability to use it affectively.

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2020-11-22 22:02:04

@32, actually, we're in PanDB. Sorry, just had to point that out.

The  canonical, "Python is a great first language", elicited, "Python is a great last language!"
My Github
"When you play the Game of Thrones, you either win, or you die."

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2020-11-23 01:22:04

@34, what's the difference? I'm legit not sure if there is.

Who has any time for the letter h?

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2020-11-23 01:51:41

Seems to be a version of PunBB for PHP 7. It really makes no difference what the name is.


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2020-11-23 12:53:58

For future, I think it is best that we simply squish those offensive posts wherever and whenever they come up, with as little fanfare as possible. Mostly what those folks seem to want is recognition, attention, and the gratification that comes from tying people in knots. I figure we give them none of it.

Nocturnis, you pretty much hit it squarely. I agree completely with you in your assessments of leadership, and I always have. I try to embody those qualities as much as I can, though I know that I haven't been perfect in this. I'm working on it.

Ironcross, as to your point about leaders and followers, I think you've missed the point a little bit. Unless I'm badly misunderstanding Nocturnis's point, I believe what he's saying is that to be a good leader, you have to be not only able to take decisive action, but you also have to be able to listen, or to let others with more insight or experience step up and help you lead. Leading doesn't mean never admitting you're wrong, and it doesn't mean never taking outside help. At worst, it means a unified front in order to engender confidence from those who do not or cannot lead. I personally feel that some of the best natural leaders I've ever known are not especially aggressive or pushy. Decisive, sometimes, but that's why they're there, to make some of those tough calls and to take the fallout when it inevitably shows up.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-11-23 15:29:07

Thanks, Jayde.  Your reply to Ironcross was precisely what I wanted to state but honestly felt I didn't have the words to create a compelling argument with.  I juggle this thing every day, though in a different manner and for different reasons.  The best way for me to explain it, which may or may not make sense if you're not a parent is that you can so easily fall into the trap of thinking you know more than the child because experience, because years, because accumulated knowledge, because come on!  You're just a kid!  I'm the parent!
And so then you try to put yourself in the kid's shoes.  Wait, I was a kid too at one point, right?  Well yeah, but that was long ago.  Still, I have to have some memory of it, don't I?  Well, I do remember my parents saying "You do this, and then you do that, because I said so!"  Well, that hardly seems reasonable.  You could by that argument tell me to jump off a bridge and then I'd have to do it because you said so?  Hmm, flawed reasoning.  When you argue like that as a parent you convince nobody that you're ever right, only that you're on a psychological power trip or worse, that you are just plain stupid and don't have the gutts to admit to it so you give stupid commands to keep the smarter people in line with whatever it is that you believe.
And then there's the simplification process; this one's a bit harder.  I have to descend to my children's intelectual level.  Notice I'm using the word descend; I don't want to condescend.  Sometimes you obviously do have to tell the child that they'll understand more/better as they grow older, but that does not excuse the parent from trying to explain it in terms the child can at least start to digest and work on so that the comprehension process can even begin.  A lot of that involves spending time with the child in question, getting to know their way of speaking so you can address their way of thinking.
I'm not saying there aren't times when you just have to put your foot down, because you do.  Sometimes you need to stand firm and articulate however you must that, yes, I am the leader here... I am the voice of authority and as long as you're a part of this family what I say goes.  One of the greatest works of art to this day is the Phantom of the Opera, a masterpiece of musical screams and howls that, were you to not listen to it and pay attention, you would never fully appreciate.  It is not until you've seen the whole of the story unfold that you can come to understand those howls for what they are.  In the same way, you come across situations like that in life where something happens that you know will cause the child to cry and kick and scream and rage and howl in frustration, perhaps even feeling betrayed because you took a stand.  You took them to the doctor to be vaccinated.  "But I don't want a shot!  I don't want one!  You can't make me!  Nooooooo!"
And those are the moments I am glad I'm blind because I know either one of two things is true.  My child is either looking daggers at me which would truly stab into my soul, or my child is looking at me with an understandable sadness that eloquently says the words, "I trusted you!  I've loved you!  How could you do this to me!"  But when pandemic strikes 20 years later and the child does not die because that one jab with the needle was effective, then the child knows and can be thankful.  Now they understand the screams; now they understand the howls.
and know... I don't generally like this.  I tell my children the same thing I've said on I don't even remember how many posts out here.  "If I could live the rest of my life without having to hand down one more single stupid stinking rule I'd gladly do it."  Life's not like that though.  this world owes nobody anything and plays fair with no man, woman or child.  The best we can do is do our best to err on the side of truth and navigate as best we can, fully aware of the fact that the end result is not always the one we want, expect or imagine, but that in some cases it is necessary to see the big picture and walk away feeling more satisfied than we would if we were to conform to something way less.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-11-23 19:47:03

This is why I wish you'd never stepped down as a mod. Because even if we don't agree on everything, we agree on all the fundamental building-blocks of leadership and the necessity both to understand those over whom you have power and to exercise that power responsibly and decisively when it's called for.

I weigh dozens of factors when I consider or enact larger decisions. That doesn't mean my perspective or actions are always correct, but I never, ever act from the seat of my pants, as it were, not when the safety or happiness of other people is concerned. I don't have kids, but I've seen so many parents try (and often fail) to reach their kids that I've long since accepted that if I ever have any, or inherit any from a relationship, I will try to interact with them in just this way. It'll mean descending to their level so they can understand. It will sometimes mean wielding the big stick because no amount of understanding is going to get that child to agree. It will mean hurting because the short-term effects are disappointment or anger or fear from your child. And while I absolutely do not view you lot as children, it's close to the same thing. I know that I'm in a position where what I do (and, for that matter, what the whole team does) is going to ruffle feathers sometimes. I know it sometimes means making decisions some of you aren't happy with, and I know it means a ton of responsibility.
Interestingly enough, the "because I said so" defense has never struck me well, not even when I was a child. A common thing I used to say to my parents was something like, "But why do you say so? Just give me a reason. I'm not going to argue. Because I said so isn't good enough". My mom tried to tell me that it -should be good enough, most of the time, and we argued over it. My dad, on the other hand, would often explain in a different way. "Because I said so" was shorthand for a longer or more complicated explanation. So eventually we worked it out between the three of us. I wouldn't question unduly, they wouldn't just bludgeon me with that explanation when I asked. It is for this reason, among many others, that I pushed very hard for greater transparency. If we tell you or ask you to do something, or -not to do something, we're going to be able to tell you why, and it won't ever amount to "because I said so". It might be a reason you don't like or can't wholly swallow, but there will be more than just self-aggrandizing rhetoric behind it.

I have no particular liking for making decisions on behalf of other people. It doesn't give me a thrill and it doesn't bring me joy. I've said before, and will undoubtedly say again, that I see this like a job, and see myself as something of an unofficial bureaucrat doing a job (and trying very hard to do it well) because it needs doing and because I truly believe myself capable of doing it at more than just the lowest level of acceptable competency.

I also want to point out that for anyone reading this who wants to start a new forum, you're going to find some people who have issues with the people who uun it, no matter how they govern and no matter what their decisions are. If the rules are too loose, someone will come along and abuse them, and these people will claim that the staff is not protecting them or doing its job or representing its community well. If the rules are too tight, the staff will be accused of enjoying the possession and use of power, or will be told they're jumping at shadows, or will be denigrated in other ways, because many seem to be opposed to rules on general principle. There is no perfect middle ground where everyone is happy. If your desire to go elsewhere is predicated on this mythical no-man's land where there is perfect balance in how the rules are enforced, and everyone is happy, you'd do well to reconsider your stance and accept the inherent idealism present in it.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-11-23 23:27:59

@Jayde, You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run...
lol Sorry... I couldn't resist the chance to use those lyrics to inject a bit of satire.  Seriously though?  After conducting my investigation of the err, fiasco that ended up upending the moderation panel of that then and there, I genuinely felt spent.  It was the end of 2018;  My wife was pregnant with our fourth.  As much as I wanted to keep on driving, I knew the increase in responsibilities at home would never allow me to help the community as I once had.  I didn't feel I could do the forum and its members justice.  Days were longer; the older ones were growing up and becoming more demanding each in their own way.  That last pregnancy nearly killed my wife more than once, and the premature birth of our daughter at 32 weeks made the whole thing all the much more frightful.  That she survived was more than we could have asked for; that she thrived through it all left us speechless.  But it didn't come easy.  Trying to juggle all of what we had to go through, plus be here for the forum and its members and pretend to do it all justice?  Not who I am, and I'm sure you know that.
but another reason I left was because I honestly didn't know if anyone in the moderation panel would agree with the stance I took when I presented my findings.  the whole thing just felt like a mess all I wanted to do was walk away from, but before I walked away from it I wanted to do the community what I sincerely thought was a last favor... I wanted them to know how things went down, because I believed and still believe in transparency.  They wanted the whole truth.  They had turned to that Smoke Article for it.  I felt that thing was psychotically toxic and had a negative agenda behind it, so I said my part and felt I had done what good I could.  I had my sights set on backing away then and not returning... I wouldn't have, if you hadn't emailed me.  I think it was that email that really made me realize that if there was a guy who I didn't always agree with and who didn't always agree with me on the forum who wanted me to come back, what might others think about the whole thing?  At the very least I figured I'd take your advice and kinda lurk in the background and give advice and help here and there... I'd like to think I did alright with that.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2020-11-24 03:48:37

That's fair enough. I understand completely the fact that life itself takes far higher priority. Good on  you for recognizing that. Sometimes, some of us don't.

Honestly, your take on that whole fiasco was pretty close to my own, once I had all the info. The difference was, I didn't have that info at first and wasn't equipped to act properly on it. You and I share the same feeling about the article in question, by the way...supremely toxic is an understatement. I am a big believer in getting to the bottom of stuff, even if in the end it makes someone I like look bad.

But yeah, I think what I said in my last post kind of bears on this whole situation. I get that no webmasters sucks, but we're doing the best we can with what we've got. More active and present webmasters would hopefully allow us to patch some known issues which plague this place, but it wouldn't make it a perfect haven of agreement and reason, and it wouldn't make some of the thornier questions and issues we have go away, not necessarily anyway. Until then, we'll just keep on.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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