2020-06-25 16:27:17

Nocturnous is steeling my words.
Send halp.
On another note, 75, you have a twitter DM from me.

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2020-06-25 22:48:54 (edited by criticview 2020-06-25 22:50:36)

Nocturnus wrote:

In terms of who had what first, Android is still winning out.  First to encorporate NFC, first to incorporate push notifications, first to incorporate a notifications center, third party keyboards, predictive typing, automatic app updates, true multitasking functionality, mobile payment options, turn by turn navigation, wireless syncing, and on and on the list goes.

This is where i'd say: it's the egg versus chicken thing from one of my previous posts. And also, I don't see anything wrong with asking retorical questions if they reach the same as you putting down facts...

Nocturnus wrote:

Beyond that, Android speak for itself with all the things it has that iOS doesn't have, such as the ability to set default apps, a number of options for expandable storage, Customizable lock screen shortcuts, and yes, dare I say it, FM radio!  Oh sure, iOS devices can do it, but Apple doesn't want you to!  so yes, speaking as someone who's been riding the iOS bandwagon for nearly 10 years and even has my kids on it, Android does offer more than iOS in many camps you may not care to admit to.  If only we could get accessibility up to scratch now... I still wonder if comentary may honestly be the way forward, like the NVDa of Android.

So, and this is only my opinion... You're allowed to "point out ios flaws" while I can't point out flaws in say expandable storage, and it potentially being a reason for why apple didn't or doesn't want to enbark on that.

Besides, attention seeking. Really now? So, if someone has a different way of writing out what they think, and or how they think it, they're suddanly attention seeking? How exactly would that even work then?

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2020-06-26 01:13:58

77, thanks for removing any doubt in my mind that you're only here to shit stir. There's a difference between stating facts which can be easily verified, and throwing around baseless claims most if not all of which are entirely untrue. For the record, my phone doesn't include an SD card slot, but I know enough people who have phones that do to know that none of the issues you describe are present. You're clearly going off of prior experiences with other devices, which probably aren't even android I might add, more prone to issues with SD cards. I do also feel it worth pointing out that that hole argument is pretty much busted when you consider that weather or not a phone includes an SD card slot is entirely dependant on the manufacturer. Also, re, your point about manufacturers being able to do whatever they like with the phones? Also untrue, at least if they want to be supported by google play services and the like, which they do. See various chinees companies currently in legal trouble with google for examples of this. Sure they have more flexibility than with IOS, and almost all of them modify their interfaces to some degree or use their own launchers, but if you're not happy with something, chances are you'll be able to change it. Also something worth keeping in mind, just like with windows, there are many, many choices when it comes to devices. There are certain phones you want to watch out for, just like windows and computers. Ever heard of this wonderful little thing called research?
I'm sure your next post in here will also be full of easily proven false bluster in that condescending tone many of us have come to expect from you from STW. Bring it on.

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2020-06-26 02:44:05

"Who doesn't allow expanding storage? [just imagine for a second your sd card gets jossled etc] not to mention the bottlenecking you're introducing by using sd cards as program drives etc..."
Booooooo! This arguement is terrible and you should feel terrible.  Not only is it hideously out of date, but presenting SD cards as being super ready to jiggle their way out of your phone is laughably bad information. Have you inserted an SD card into a phone?
Seriously, people drop their phones from elevated places such as balconies all the time, recover their phones and then transplant the SD card into the replacement all the time. If a drop from a third floor balcony/window isn't going to dislocate the card, then every day movement doesn't stand a chance.
SD cards being the bottleneck for running apps is also old garbage, have you used a modern SD card that has been optimized for the types of i/o workloads of running programs/operating systems?
Finally, apple not allowing users the choice of using expandable storage is absolutely not them looking out for the consumer. Apple knows that it can bend people over and go in dry if they want more storage because there's always a particularly vocal subset of their user base that endlessly parrots crap like this.
Apple reducing consumer choice is not a good thing, apple deliberately keeping the starting storage on their phones as low as possible for as long as possible is not a good thing. Apple pulling all these shitty, sneaky underhanded tactics so they can squeeze more and more money from it's users is not a good thing.

There are areas where iOS still completely smokes android, but is external storage the hill you really want to die on? I'd go with iOS's support for music production. Everything just works over there and I'd personally die on that hill any day of the week.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

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2020-06-26 03:40:42

I mean, we could sing Apple Apple bad Apple all day, but is Google allowing you to insert an SD card? Presenting that as an Android advantage is a bit, funny. The advantage in this sense is that Android is open source and that any manufacturer can use it. If we go Google VS Apple, both manufacturers do not offer SD card slots.

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2020-06-26 04:18:24

I personally am a little concerned about the home screen changes, but I hope that they work well with VO. The App Library, while it seems like a nice addition, still worries me to some extent.

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2020-06-26 05:22:31

Hi.

I've seen widget implimentation on Android home screens, and while it's not that bad, I can imagine that VoiceOver will probaby do it better. Well, I certainly hope so. The key thing to get right, is to state the grid measurement the widget takes up, for example, a Weather widget may take up 2 columns (across) and two rows (down), so VoiceOver should say Weather widget, 2 by 2. Swiping to the left or right of the widget should swipe to the previous/next icon in the first row of the widget, or if it takes up the last column, the next icon in the row beneath that widget.

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2020-06-26 14:21:50

@80, here's the thing though. It's a lot less black and white than just apple vs google, always has been. For a direct competitor, samsung is probably the closest, but there are so many options out there, and that's one of the beautiful things about android, if you don't like what a particular company does, you don't have to deal with their crap, you have plenty of choices.
Let's take this as an example. When I first bought this HP back in 2018, not only did it come loaded with shit loads of bloatware, but it also had avast antivirus, which for those of you who are not aware is pretty much a virus itself. Should I have then used that as a reason to bash windows? Should I have said that microsoft were a shitty company for letting manufacturers pull this crap, keeping in mind that microsoft has much less control over these companies than google does due to the nature of windows? Na, I fixed it myself. Removed the bloatware manually, got sighted help to remove avast because the bloody thing is an inaccessible piece of crap, then I moved on. I did end up completely reinstalling windows later because the version of the realtech drivers that came with their installation got broken in a windows update, but in the end I got it fixed and working the way I wanted it to work. When I get a new computer, I'll probably just reinstall windows straight away and work from there, much less bother in the end.
And android isn't nearly as bad as windows in this regard. You'll never have to jump through this many hoops to get android working the way you want it to work, yet I know way more people on this forum use windows and criticise android because of the above.

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2020-06-26 14:49:12

No, Android is a lot worse in that regard. You can reinstall stock Windows  without sighted help in 30 minutes. I cannot reinstall a stock image of Android and get rid of the  manufacturer bloatware. You have an inaccessible setup wizard? tough luck, you will always need sighted help to reset that phone.

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2020-06-26 15:20:04

It's amazing how far SamSung has come in just a few years. The first SamSung device I had anything to do with was one of their tablets running KitKat or something, and it was a mess, focus issues, synthesizer crashes, you name it. The next one I played around with was running Orio, and it really impressed me.

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2020-06-26 15:27:24

To be honest, Samsung was always impressive and ahead of Google when it comes to accessibility. Granted, I never used their tablets, but the first device I used is a Galaxy S3 mini running Android 4.2. At that time, Samsung already added the ability for us to enable and disable Talkback via a shortcut. Google already did this, but Samsung enhanced it by making it work on the lock screen as well. This was just their beginning though. In Kit kat, with the release of S5, Samsung was the first to allow dark screen via a double press of the power button, triple click home to toggle Talkback, as well as the ability to choose whether you want to double tap the letters to enter them or just lift your finger. Some of these were added much, much later in Talkback natively. Then, as we all know by  now, Galaxy Talkback, later on renamed voice assistant, though I wish it wasn't, came to Samsung devices and that was a revolution on it's own no matter if you use it or not. Even now it does some things Talkback doesn't. Don't even know how they are doing it, but the magic tap, double tap with two fingers works not only in Samsung's apps, but in 3rd party apps like Skype, Telegram and so on to answer and end a call. That's what I found the most impressive when using my Samsung.

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2020-06-26 16:28:54

The magic tap seems to be derived from the headphone play/pause control.

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2020-06-26 16:50:06

Oh, that's such a simple and great thought at the same time lol. Pretty awesome workaround.

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2020-06-26 17:28:12

I find it interesting that the first real Android experience is the one that would most likely keep me away from the system altogether.  I bought an HTC something or other I don't even want to remember back in 2015... I'm sure I've posted about it elsewhere on this forum.  For all the great success I've had with iOS though?  I've still envied the Android camp and, now that I'm working for a company that specializes in technology, I have no excuse not to research this matter more thoroughly.  I'll get paid to figure it out!

I do not know what my future holds, but I do know who holds my future.

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2020-06-26 18:57:50

The first android I ever touched was a nightmare. Talkback didn't even have touch to select, double tap to activate. It was touch it and you've pressed the button.

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2020-06-26 19:23:51

Well, we are long, long gone from that point thankfully. Anything you get now should at least be decent, the question is how much you use your phone and whether you need the extra accessibility conveniences or not.

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2020-06-26 21:17:18

My big gripe with Android now is just braille. I love reading braille. Being able to read for myself instead of have a voice pretty directly influence how I feel about something, is pretty amazing. Like, the first few chapters of The Way of Kings, reading it with Voiceover, I wouldn't really catch how Szeth is almost making fun of the Elethy in his descriptions of their ways and such, and how even though he's basically an assassin slave with powers, he does have some humor. With braille, though, I can think for myself. And Android doesn't easily enable that. Oh sure there's braille back, but just like everything google flippantly does, it's not well thought-out, and you have to *download* it. I mean, that leaves deaf-blind people out of it in the first place. Now, I know, iOS you have to pair it, but with Android, it's one more step, and the commands are just non-standard for no reason.

Now, I know, most of you don't care about braille. But it's still important, to me at least.

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2020-06-26 21:46:32

Well, I use my phone for a lot of things, reading, youtube, music, twitter, that kind of thing. I don't use it for things that I can do better with a physical keyboard, like sending long messages and posting here.

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2020-06-26 22:07:49

Yeah, you use audio, so Android *could* work for you.

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2020-06-27 19:55:36

haily_merry wrote:

77, thanks for removing any doubt in my mind that you're only here to shit stir. There's a difference between stating facts which can be easily verified, and throwing around baseless claims most if not all of which are entirely untrue. For the record, my phone doesn't include an SD card slot, but I know enough people who have phones that do to know that none of the issues you describe are present. You're clearly going off of prior experiences with other devices, which probably aren't even android I might add, more prone to issues with SD cards. I do also feel it worth pointing out that that hole argument is pretty much busted when you consider that weather or not a phone includes an SD card slot is entirely dependant on the manufacturer. Also, re, your point about manufacturers being able to do whatever they like with the phones? Also untrue, at least if they want to be supported by google play services and the like, which they do. See various chinees companies currently in legal trouble with google for examples of this. Sure they have more flexibility than with IOS, and almost all of them modify their interfaces to some degree or use their own launchers, but if you're not happy with something, chances are you'll be able to change it. Also something worth keeping in mind, just like with windows, there are many, many choices when it comes to devices. There are certain phones you want to watch out for, just like windows and computers. Ever heard of this wonderful little thing called research?
I'm sure your next post in here will also be full of easily proven false bluster in that condescending tone many of us have come to expect from you from STW. Bring it on.

As far as my understanding goes, Chinese companies are not in trouble of their own choosing. It's the US government, with their import and export business, that sturs up the trouble. Logically, if it would be google's choosing, they'd probably want to keep as much of the manifacturers on the platform, in fear of them being forced to come up with their own sollution, wich I might add, could just as well happen in the future, if this whole import and export battle continues.
And no, I haven't hat the luck to insert an sd card into a phone, thankfully. Thing is though, that if the card is not going to be encrypted, having an sd card in your phone is always going to be riskyer than if you wouldn't have one. And maybe the cards did become lots more performant, though you're not going to convince me that somehow, they are up to par with internal storage, so you're still in effect, bottlenecking your system with it, be it then with a lesser tangeable delay or what not.

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2020-06-27 19:58:09

As for apple not allowing expanded storage: why would they if there's a cloud solution, who would want to shoot themselves in the foot. And, as long as the base storage was enough, I see no problem with keeping it, it's not that those options usually were the only options anyway.

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2020-06-27 21:15:55

Sure, it could, but I would have to give up a big chunk of software.

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2020-06-27 22:25:28

@96 I can say that SD cards do not bottle neck the system and yes I even have apps and books on the card and it does not slow my phone down and please to more reasearch before coming back and telling me that sd cards are going to slow my phone down. and yes you can encrypt sd cards you will just have to look in the system for the setting to start the process

2020-06-28 04:05:09

I really don't get the big fuss that some of you are making. For the average person, an Android device will work fine. I've heard folks on this forum spread all sorts of false info, but let me tell you,

Browsing the web, Done.
Reading. done.
Being able to adjust whether or not you want the tts to read each individual line, paragraph, letter or word by swiping up or down. Done.
Being able to answer calls by hitting the volume up nob, done. And so many more. Yes we know Apple does a great job of accessibility, but Android has accessibility, and other things going for it.

Both systems have their flaws, as I said previously, and both systems have their pluses.


Also, 77 proves Haily's point quite nicely.

@Nocturnous, you started off with perhaps one of the worse phones, If i'm thinking of the right brand.
Lol, when I first got my J6 about a year ago, I was pretty scared, because the last time I used a mobile screenreader, which was probably in 2014 there about, it was so fricking bad I decided just to depend on my sight, and only use it for menus, like the settings or whatever. That was Talkback running on a Blu. My first 2 phones were Blus.

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2020-06-28 05:02:11

@99 you took my words and you nailed it wight their.