2020-05-18 07:51:23

I mean seirously guys, there are lots of more important things  going on in the world right now than worrying about a couple of devs using illegal sounds on a couple of audiogames that only 25000 blind people worldwide will play... Come on that's even less than the total number of covid deaths in Spain!

Your #1 internet trollveloper waz ere.

2020-05-18 08:01:13

Hi.

At Oriol you are comparing apples to oranges here.
Covid 19 is a pandemic where virologists and politicians deal with what happens next and how life will continue, the other issue are copyrighted materials which we have to deal with.
It's not our task to find a vakcine for covid 19. And you can deal with multiple issues at once, so the argument that we have bigger problems, at least for the given situation doesn't count.

And regarding paying for the game, I wouldn't mind spending 20 dollars on Beatstar. Rhythm rage, I would need to think about that one, but I also could see myself paying for that.

Greetings Moritz.

Er nahm sie dann ins Stoßgebet,
der Kirchturmpfal zum Himmel steht,
Der Wein geweiht, die Erde bebt.
Dem Herr seih nah im Stoßgebet

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 08:18:01 (edited by ogomez92 2020-05-18 08:27:19)

I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I'm saying that people are overreacting. JAide literally said that he stopped playing CP and AA because they use pirated assets. That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a while. IT's not like the cops are going to go after him because he is playing an audiogame that no one in the wider sighted world knows about. If he had child porn and was posting on youtube, now that would be different. But we are talking about an audiogame that is largely unknown to most people.

And about payment, sure you wouldn't, but other people don't want to pay. That's a fact. Do you know how many people paid for my Spanish audio description project, translating Netflix audio descriptions from English into Spanish, which also happens to be illegal? Only one person. Do you know how long it takes to produce an audiogame? No? JGood. Now, like I said, I don't mind. People are free not to pay if they don't want to. If I wanted them to pay, i wouldn't use illegal assets. I might release a couple of games for iOS soon. Will I use illegal assets? Of course not. But I'll also expect people to pay 1 or 2 dollars for each game, because I know that people who play my game will have had the money to get an iDevice at some point. There is the difference.

Your #1 internet trollveloper waz ere.

2020-05-18 08:28:44 (edited by ogomez92 2020-05-18 08:51:00)

So, should I deprive people who are unable to pay from playing my games for windows / mac' Nope, I'd rather continue using pirated assets and say it openly. When you see a game from me which is free, you'll know why.
OH btw, I know a fellow dev who has hundreds of thousands of illegal sound files as well. wink

Your #1 internet trollveloper waz ere.

2020-05-18 09:09:34

jaide please send me the part of the apple license that makes using mac os VM's illegal to use on windows. you wont find it because it doesn't exist.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 09:22:37

This argument about cp is ridiculous anyway. Do you know how many songs would have to be replaced? Let's count them up here. There's 253 minigame music tracks, 17 world themes, about 40 microgames that don't reuse music, 4 board themes, and that doesn't even mention the battle music and all the other tracks all over the place. Yeah, you go find free music for all of that, and come back to me once you're done.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

Thumbs up +2

2020-05-18 09:29:42

I think that, topped with the fact that 95% of the AGNet members would up and leave this community and start another one, is why the other admins made no move to ban games such as Crazy Party from the DB and by extension the forum. Still, the fact that they even considered it in the first place is pretty sad in of itself.

Friend me on Discord: Garrett#0750

Thumbs up +1

2020-05-18 09:44:39

Hi.

at Oriol well I know how long developing an audiogame can be, don't forget a part of my 3 year training is programming, although not the majority of it, I do have a decent understanding on how programming works and how tedious things can get.

And paying for iOs games? sure, why the hel not? If the game is to my liking, in my case not the next simple tap to rol the dice or tap to play a card game and actually is entertaining, I wouldn't mind shelling out some bucks, games that pritty much did that were Feer, Adventure to fate and urm, yeah, that's sorta it.

I also gladly payed for KODP and six ages because these are actually good games with a story, extensive lore and stuff to do.

Greetings Moritz.

Er nahm sie dann ins Stoßgebet,
der Kirchturmpfal zum Himmel steht,
Der Wein geweiht, die Erde bebt.
Dem Herr seih nah im Stoßgebet

Thumbs up +1

2020-05-18 09:48:05

Exactly Simba, and that's why if I ever make a paid iOS game I garantee it's not going to have any pirated sounds, because I could get sued over it. And they'd be right in doing so. But that some people stop playing game x because it has pirated sounds... It just doesn't sit right.

Your #1 internet trollveloper waz ere.

2020-05-18 10:33:02 (edited by ignatriay 2020-05-18 10:56:42)

Ok. What has me concerned is this,
https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/3356 … -wants-it/
A harsh approach was taken with the mac vertual machine topic; I get why. However look at the link posted above... Uh... Isn't this piracy as well, or not? Remember, windows needs a valid product key, even if it was a valid product key, if it was the key of the user who bought windows... Still piracy. And if it was not the key of the originally purchaced copy of windows... Still piracy. This is not a valid argument;but playing the devil's advocate for a bit... Given windows 7 has become unsopported, my whole argument could be nonevalid as given windows 7, if that's the os beeing used on said vm; given how its no longer supported might in-fact make this legal and valid, although I highly doubt it. Back to it though.    My question is, why the harsh approach to the mac vertual machine topic,   however, erm, there was no, harsh or similar approach to this topic. Why? I mean I reason its 1: We are all human, we all mess up, and this topic was overlooked by accident, which might well be the case or, 2: something else is going on and it was overlooked on purpose. I mean,  if the approach on the mac vm topic was harsh, shouldn't the same thing have been true in the case of the topic above? Just some food for thought.
Or how about this topic?

https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/3445 … nc-folder/

Uh... ... anyone who has been in the folder discussed in that topic knows that yes, there are cracks in that folder which means, piracy. And yet isn't it supposed to be, this is not allowed on the forum? Shouldn't said topic have been closed, same as with the mac vertual machine one? Again, it could have been as simple as human error, but its just... odd. Mind you, i'm not pointing fingers at anyone and accusing them of... overlooking stuff on purpose, i'm just stating what i've noticed. I mean, why some topics get closed, and others don't, despite, in this case, both dealing with the same problem; piracy? Why do, for example, all the cloning topics get locked, but the same is not exactly true in the case of topics dealing with or spreading piracy? I mean, its both cloaning, and pirated content, have the same 0tolerance level, so technically, both should be dealt with in the same manner.

On another note, i'll be blunt. Sound effects copyright are completely different than music copyright. Mind you, i'm not saying go and download illegal sounds, i'm just making a point. Sound effects copyright is hard to prove, as, 1: Anyone with the knowledge can modify said sound, making some new sound, etc, thus making it his, and, 2: given the reason above, even if one where to have the origional source files or the recorded sound, said sound was already used to create something new that wasn't there before. Now, if one uses the normal sound without doing anything to it, just using the sound as is... That's another, matter,however it is still practicly impossible to prove that, o, I recorded said sound. What i'm getting at is, sound effects and music copyright are two totally different animals. They are not related. To put bluntly; you cannot copyright individual sounds, you can only copyright say, a group of sounds, however given anyone with the knowledge that edits those sounds into something new, etc, does so, brings us back to square 1. Is it right  to get illegal sounds? Fuck yes, it shouldn't be done, however the rules of copyright are different than music copyright rules. Let me give you an example. One of you goes to my freesound page, downloads a sound of mine which I recorded. If you use the sound, just as is, with no modification whatsoever, then yes, you would need to credit me. Why? Because you are still using the same original recording, without modification. However, if you took my sound, made something new, a new sound, or made something as small as say, adding echoes and some distortion making it sound different and not what it originally sounded like, that sound, that newly made sound, is yours. The original  sound is still mine, but I cannot say, o, you used this sound to make this new sound, i'm gunna sue you⋅  Why? Because the sound is no longer what I recorded originally, its something other than the sound I originally recorded.

sound designer for mental vision
take a look at
My freesound pageWhere I post sounds I record. ps: if you use my sounds, remember to credit me smiley

Thumbs up +1

2020-05-18 12:19:21

30:
(iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.

You're welcome.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

Check out my live streams: http://lerven.me
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/liamerven

2020-05-18 13:12:49

@ liam no this doesn't say that you are not alowed to use os-x on a windows vm

Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 13:40:00

On another hand though, with the Jonixter ish problem that is currently happening in the blindie community, its better to be safe than sorry. If you want to know what I am talking about, follow the link. The problem is that it requires some understanding of russian, and I have no time for translation now. Sorry in advance!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTIUYfK … e=youtu.be

I am a ripoff of my mother,
and my mother is a ripoff of my grandmother.
We're all bitching about game clones,
and by generations of generations, we're based off stolen code.

2020-05-18 14:10:00

37.
it says that you are only allowed to virtualize it if on another mac. So. yes. That means you can't run it on Windows. thanks for trying to argue though.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

Check out my live streams: http://lerven.me
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/liamerven

2020-05-18 14:22:13

Hey Liam, how's it foing?
Numo, all I heard was something about adminz.
As for Adel's VM, Jayde almost warned Adel, but folks were saying it's all good.

Who has any time for the letter h?

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 14:27:24

Jayde, you closed the mac topic. You keep this one open! Why? And to the guys who are saying this and this game is using illegal sounds, every game gets forbidden by Jayde and other admins! If you don't want that, stop that! Now!

Best regards: Marco

Thumbs up +1

2020-05-18 14:29:53

@ liam o sorry i didn't read this careful enough

Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 14:35:53

So, um, right. Jailbreaking is legal? By the law, yes. However, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201954
this page says the following:
"Apple strongly cautions against installing any software that hacks iOS. It is also important to note that unauthorized modification of iOS is a violation of the iOS end-user software license agreement and because of this, Apple may deny service for an iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch that has installed any unauthorized software."
So, there goes that, violation of the licence agreement.
Someone also talked about IOS betas. Of course they are legal. What isn't legal is discussing them. That's also a violation of the beta program licence agreement.
So, for your summer, I recommend spending it reading all these massive licence agreements so you can know what you should and should not discuss here from now on.

Thumbs up +2

2020-05-18 15:35:09

Sometimes I question the mental state of the mods lol.

Soren, stop the bloody hypocrisy. You were vocal about the topic being closed, now look at you

Who has any time for the letter h?

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 15:39:49

@nidza07: You miss the point.
Public betas and Mac VM's outside of the Mac circles: hard fast rules against them, no ifs, ands, or buts.
Jailbreaking: Yeah, go ahead and do it, but denying service is basically the official version of saying it voids your warranty. So, jailbreaking itself is totaly fine and even if it wasn't, anything denouncing it on the user's end in the license agreement would be unenforceable becuas the DMCA exemption would overrule that. There is a severability clause in most license agreements for that reason, only the nonenforceable clause would usually be replaced with something else.
Honestly I'm thinking people do understand this but are beating around the bush on purpose. The same crowd lways comes out concerning this and it's honestly enough. Ok, fine, one word for all of you. Eltin. There. A G Net is not the only place for the blind to discuss these matters.
As for CP, free or not there is something to be said about a game using pirated assets, but what I'm not seeing a lot of in this community is the hiring of/inclusion of dedicated sound design staff that may already have the libraries at their disposal. That was usually always the case with older game developers, wherein the developers either were sound designers themselves or had additional people involved that did sound work. You don't have to purchase the libraries yourself to get some damn good sounds within a game from someone who does and can mix them down in such a way that they are project-ready.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 15:45:03 (edited by jack 2020-05-18 15:48:47)

I will say this. Oriol's views on not charging for games is actually a deep-rooted communal issue that people should be waaaaaaaay more concerned about than they let on. Why back in my day - as it were - you were lucky if a game was under $20, let alone $10/15. Granted a lot has changed concerning development since then, but there's a stark difference between the person strapped for cash who may benefit from giveaways/gifting trains, vs the person who can afford to skip a Starbucks trip or two and go  support a dev but choose not to. The app store's chumpchange approach doesn't help matters either, and it's all because IOS never had trialware functionality that they pretty much forced all the apps between $1 to $10, and $20 was the new $50. The $100 per year license fee is detrimental unless you can break even, which it has become increasingly hard to do with this community.
So, I would propose that if Oriol does want to use legal assets within a game, he is fully within his right to charge, and people are also fully within their right to start giveaways/gifting trains/contest or the like. And for those who have a problem with that the developer doesn't *owe* you a damn thing, and you should be good and happy he has been making these games for free for as long as they've been.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up +1

2020-05-18 16:36:41

I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

1. I haven't stopped playing AA and CP because I'm afraid the cops will get me. I'm well aware that the odds of me getting in any trouble for using these products is essentially nil. I've stopped because, while both things are free, I feel a bit weird being hypocritical and supporting piracy.
2. Several people reported the Mac VM topic, but other topics involving cracking and piracy are often not reported and not noticed. If you want to know why some threads are ignored and some are pounced on, that's it in a nutshell.
3. Somebody said that I only shut down threads I care about. Um...I don't even know where to start with this one, but let's just say this. I've never used a VM. I'm not particularly interested in using a VM. I know what it is, I could probably set one up if I really wanted to, but I don't. To imply that I care personally about it is ridiculous. Don't assume that you know me on grounds like this; it just makes you look foolish.
4. The reason this thread is still open is twofold. First, I'm not in the habit of smashing any dissention when it crops up. I may think it's silly, but folks have a right to voice their opinions, at least as long as they're not just bashing for the sake of bashing. Second, this thread isn't really breaking any rules. There are no how-to explanations on how to do things that we don't really want talked about. There's really no personal attacking going on. If I locked this thread, some of you would get upset, and you'd be right to. If it were me in your shoes, and an admin locked this thread right now, I'd be pissed, and I'd probably reach out to said admin privately to vent my frustration. So have on.
5. The same handful of voices is always raised, and the same arguments are trotted out. Most of them are busted, while others are just tired and lack substance. I really don't understand what you hope to achieve. There are other forums, other lists, other platforms to discuss stuff to your heart's content if that's what you want to do. Here, we're primarily trying to promote audio games, and that means that we've got a low-tolerance stance against piracy in general. It wouldn't kill you to discuss things privately, or off the forum. You keep acting as if we're violating some sort of essential rights here, and that's simply not the case. I haven't become a dictator overnight, despite what many of you think. Hell, the fact that a lot of conversations that might well have been shut down haven't yet had that happen should tell you that no, we are not trawling the forum looking for offenses. We deal with them when and as we see them, so please understand that any argument that boils down to "OMG you lock everything" is just going to be shrugged at and dismissed. Because clearly that's not representative of reality. My advice: go back to living your lives, and realize that where this is concerned, I made a fair call. A firm call, but a fair one. Warnings go away, and so long as community failure isn't invoked - and it hasn't been here - a user who gets a warning and then does nothing else wrong has absolutely nothing to worry about. In short, nobody gets hurt and life goes on.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up +2

2020-05-18 22:39:04

i am so sorry for you leave them alone for a little bit and see how they will enforce the rules.

Jayde wrote:

I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

1. I haven't stopped playing AA and CP because I'm afraid the cops will get me. I'm well aware that the odds of me getting in any trouble for using these products is essentially nil. I've stopped because, while both things are free, I feel a bit weird being hypocritical and supporting piracy.
2. Several people reported the Mac VM topic, but other topics involving cracking and piracy are often not reported and not noticed. If you want to know why some threads are ignored and some are pounced on, that's it in a nutshell.
3. Somebody said that I only shut down threads I care about. Um...I don't even know where to start with this one, but let's just say this. I've never used a VM. I'm not particularly interested in using a VM. I know what it is, I could probably set one up if I really wanted to, but I don't. To imply that I care personally about it is ridiculous. Don't assume that you know me on grounds like this; it just makes you look foolish.
4. The reason this thread is still open is twofold. First, I'm not in the habit of smashing any dissention when it crops up. I may think it's silly, but folks have a right to voice their opinions, at least as long as they're not just bashing for the sake of bashing. Second, this thread isn't really breaking any rules. There are no how-to explanations on how to do things that we don't really want talked about. There's really no personal attacking going on. If I locked this thread, some of you would get upset, and you'd be right to. If it were me in your shoes, and an admin locked this thread right now, I'd be pissed, and I'd probably reach out to said admin privately to vent my frustration. So have on.
5. The same handful of voices is always raised, and the same arguments are trotted out. Most of them are busted, while others are just tired and lack substance. I really don't understand what you hope to achieve. There are other forums, other lists, other platforms to discuss stuff to your heart's content if that's what you want to do. Here, we're primarily trying to promote audio games, and that means that we've got a low-tolerance stance against piracy in general. It wouldn't kill you to discuss things privately, or off the forum. You keep acting as if we're violating some sort of essential rights here, and that's simply not the case. I haven't become a dictator overnight, despite what many of you think. Hell, the fact that a lot of conversations that might well have been shut down haven't yet had that happen should tell you that no, we are not trawling the forum looking for offenses. We deal with them when and as we see them, so please understand that any argument that boils down to "OMG you lock everything" is just going to be shrugged at and dismissed. Because clearly that's not representative of reality. My advice: go back to living your lives, and realize that where this is concerned, I made a fair call. A firm call, but a fair one. Warnings go away, and so long as community failure isn't invoked - and it hasn't been here - a user who gets a warning and then does nothing else wrong has absolutely nothing to worry about. In short, nobody gets hurt and life goes on.

Thumbs up

2020-05-18 23:01:19

Jack wrote:

As for CP, free or not there is something to be said about a game using pirated assets, but what I'm not seeing a lot of in this community is the hiring of/inclusion of dedicated sound design staff that may already have the libraries at their disposal. That was usually always the case with older game developers, wherein the developers either were sound designers themselves or had additional people involved that did sound work. You don't have to purchase the libraries yourself to get some damn good sounds within a game from someone who does and can mix them down in such a way that they are project-ready.

He could have used free sounds or hired someone to make sounds for him, yes, but he chose those specific sounds for a reason. That's the kind of game Crazy Party is. It's supposed to be a Mario Party/Pokemon-esk game, and the sounds are meant to make that obvious. By changing the sounds, that'd be a huge slap in the face to the game and it's concept. Plus, as Conner mentioned, there are way over 200 songs in Crazy Party, and probably twice as many sounds. There's no way he could just go in and replace them all. Also, good luck finding sounds that sound retro and are also free to use. If anyone could find a list of sounds that Pragma could replace the current sounds with and enough retro music to replace the over 200 songs that are already in place, then by all means, please do come back to this thread and show me your findings. I encourage people to prove me wrong here.

Friend me on Discord: Garrett#0750

Thumbs up

2020-05-19 00:14:27

DanGero, this last argument is bullshit from start to finish.

Apparently wanting to emulate Mario Party and Pokémon now gives you the right to engage in piracy?
Apparently it wasn't too much effort to dig up all these pirated assets in the first place, but it's asking too much to fix the issue?
Apparently games like Manamon suck because VG Storm had the decency not to just rip off the pokemon aesthetic in its music and sounds?
Apparently asking a game to stop pirating its source of inspiration is a slap in the face?

You have got to be kidding me.

This game, if it had had its own music and sounds from the get-go, could have been huge. It could have worked the same way Manamon did, by borrowing heavily from source material while being its own thing with music and sounds, and by putting wrinkles into what came before just enough to carve out its own niche. It could even have made Pragma money, as I know some people would gladly have bought the thing if had been sold at a decent price. For the record, it's totally cool with me that Pragma releases it for free, since charging money for it would be a serious problem in the game's current state. Instead, you're trying to suggest that the game lives and dies by its pirated assets. That's the biggest slap in the face of all. Pragma deserves credit not for borrowing a bunch of sounds he had no right to, and using them, but instead by coding and implementing hundreds of mini-games and battles, and constantly updating his product to be better and better. He deserves no credit for using other people's assets in a slavish attempt to emulate a certain feel, but he deserves all the credit in the world for having created two games in one that people seem to greatly enjoy. To suggest that the project lives or dies by its pirated assets is terribly insulting.

I can't express to you how much your stance disappoints me. If you truly think that the game requires pirated assets in order for people to 1. know the overall source and 2. to enjoy the games and battles, you have a very unsubstantiated opinion regarding Crazy Party's appeal. Just to speak for myself here, I can tell you that I did not and would not play the game because of its sounds; in point of fact, I find many of the sounds in the card battle section annoying - seriously, the little sound made at the end of every turn grates my nerves - and most of the battle tracks are...well, not among my personal choices, let's just say that, so I often turn the music down. I'm sure some people love the pirate retro aesthetic, and that's cool I suppose, but I doubt they keep coming back for more primarily because Pragma is using pirated assets. In short, they aren't essential to his game, and while they do add a certain flavour, they also come at the cost of making his game a hell of illegality.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up +2