2020-04-15 12:34:39

@hadi.gsf I see what the problem is.

How about we divide up the pitch into 18 regions? Left middle and right horizontally, and 6 vertical rows. So basically, each third has two halves and 3 regions in each half, 6 regions in a third. This way, I can change pitch dimensions easily, and we don't need exact meters to know where a player should stand, since I can just move a player to the edge of the region that is closest to the goal line. To estimate, these 18 regions would be about 25 meters wide and almost 19 meters tall, but you wouldn't need to worry about the exact numbers. Would this make it easier, or should I just create an editor so you can forget about the numbers altogether?

If we use regions, and the formation is exactly the same, you could just say something like in normal play, move every player one row up.

@simba Yes, this is exactly how player abilities will work from the start. Later on, you will be able to upgrade stats in-game for coins that you receive after matches, and of course you will be able to create/edit your own custom players and teams as well.

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-04-15 13:22:13 (edited by hadi.gsf 2020-04-15 13:23:29)

@robjoy do you think you could  divide it to 5 parts horizontally, and 5 parts verticaly? for two reasons.
reason 1: I could define attacking, central and defending forms easier with formations such as 4-2-3-1, 3-4-2-1 and etc. these two that i listed are  the popular ones.
reason 2. So then horizontally we'd have: team 1 box +penalty area+the left and right side of the box, team 1's area between the box and midfield, the midfield, team 2's area between the midfield and the box, team 2's box+penalty area.
And vertically we don't need more than 5 regions i think, because you can't fit 6 players in a row for each team, technically anyway.
The downside of this is that we need to get you the exact size of each of horizontal section so while implementing the formations you'd define them according to the actual field.

Do i make sense or am i mixing things up.

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2020-04-15 14:14:25

The problem I am seeing with a 5x5 distribution is that the midfield region will have to be twice as big as the other regions, so I think six vertical regions would make more sense. Say, if you are facing the opponent's goal, the first row of regions would be your box and penalty area, the second row would be the area between your box and the midfield, the third and fourth rows of regions for the midfield, one row for your opponent's area between their box and the midfield, and finally the opponent's penalty area and the box. Horizontally, if it is easier to distribute formations this way, I think dividing it into 5 regions is okay. I can make it so that they would move to the middle of the region horizontally, and maybe a bit up vertically, so they wouldn't stand near the edge. This way it would be easier to move in any direction if the ball is in a player's region, for both of the teams. What do you think?

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-04-15 19:10:42

robjoy, I got confused a little.
why do you think the midfield has to be twice big as the other areas?
It does  seem  perfectly fine to me, if the field has 6 parts instead of 5, e.g. the midfield was also divided to two parts for coding reasons, but because the midfield area is kind of smaller to other parts, in my mind, that's why i imagined it as one part.
e.g., IT is just a circle area and a line that divides two halves.
But then again if you think that makes sense code wise, That does seem ok.
So example of a kick off at the center, both teams of 4-4-2. IF the field had 6 parts, How do we arrange the 8 players in the midfield? e.g. 4 inner midfielders, + 4 wingers.
They have to be standing near each other of course, not apart. Would the distances be fine if the game dropped 4 players of team 1 in the third region, and 4 players of the other team on the fourth region?

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2020-04-15 20:29:05

Technically, the exact middle of the pitch is, you are right, tiny. In this case I am just thinking in thirds, which will allow the commentary to be more interesting, for example announce player names differently, based on which third the ball is on.

So in practice, this would mean that the middle region consists of an area on your half, as well as the same amount on the opponent's. In this regard, the half line would be where the third row of regions end.

We can certainly make players come close or keep their distance, so I don't think that this is going to be a problem. How close do the players need to be, for instance in a 4-4-2 formation? On a 5 by 6 pitch, if we make life easy and have a 70 wide and 108 tall one, we have identical 14 meters wide and 18 meters long regions.

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-04-15 21:44:23

Ok, that does sound good!
In what format should i work on formations then? if i wanted to do it without an editor?
Regarding player distances, i have to do research on this. Putting the types of marking aside, I know that players  run close to each other to make sure to intercept incoming passes. obviously attackers have to be aware that they're actually on level or in front of defenders to avoid off sides, but my limited info  tells me that players of two opposing teams keep an eye on each other and  are very tight to their markers.
This is why when Raheem Sterling speeds down the right wing and widens the attack, he takes a marker with him, sometimes even two! so that there will be a hole in the defense line of the opposing team! because they're sticking to him!

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2020-04-15 22:33:31

Hi.

You know, if you are splitting the field into regions, I have this little idea inside my head.
What about an extra mode where you have smaller regions and actually walls around the field so the ball bounces back and can't go over the touch lines? Yeah, you probably guessed it, I'm refering to inside football. Smaller teams, quicker gameplay, ball can't go out of play and so on.
So basically a more arcadish mode.

Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2020-04-15 22:38:10 (edited by robjoy 2020-04-15 22:38:52)

you could just reference the horizontal and vertical positions, for example from 1 to 5 and 1 to 6, so for example 3 6 would be the middle of the opponent's box and penalty area, while 3 1 would be yours. Whenever there are more than 2 players on one region, some extra notes would be nice, just to know the initial position, e.g. a rough distance, or whether I should put the players in the corner of the region, etc. With two players, I think it makes sense to move them to the top middle and bottom middle of the region, unless we have distance requirements, in which case players will make sure they keep the appropriate distance.

Regarding markings, you mentioned that sometimes an attacker can draw away defenders, which is something I was thinking about adding, however I am not sure about how you as a gamer would accomplish this. Does this work in Fifa, e.g. having two markers drawn away by one person?

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-04-15 23:11:30

ok. I will write an example for 4-4-2, and 4-2-3-1 and will  show it to you, and while doing that i'll see if i'll get confused or not, so if i did maybe i could ask you for an editor.
Regarding second marker.
In fifa, when you, or AI is marking and trying to get the ball, you have access to a button called "Second team mate pressure" When you press and hold this, It draws the nearest team mate, pulls him out of his position, which means that he leaves the attacker who he was originally marking, comes near the ball, and atempts to win the ball  or put pressure to the ball carrier.
This means that you're controlling a player who's trying to  dispossess the opponent, and you'll have an automated AI team mate who's  trying to also get the ball back, putting pressure on the ball.

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2020-04-15 23:34:00

Sure, let me know how it goes and if it's confusing in any way, I can whip up a quick editor for you.

Ah, this makes sense now. We can put this in too, I think, once the basics are done. This is probably going to be communication on the player level, so I'll need to track the closest player of the opponent, as well as the closest teammate, which I have to do anyway because of potential pass targets. Thank you for your explanation!

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-04-16 03:00:24

this is going to be awesome! keep it up

follow me on
twitter
now go away, don't talk to me

2020-04-18 12:18:07

Thanks @animal metal.

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-04-18 17:11:56

Hi,

@Robjoy: I forgot to say that earlier, but the commentary samples you posted earlier in this thread Sound great, Keep them coming!

Greetings and happy gaming, Julian

If you say you never lie, you're a liar.
Oh, and #freeGCW

2020-04-26 17:24:10

Awesome. We'll see how pricing and availability turns out later on, but he is definitely a candidate for me.

@hadi.gsf Any luck with the formations? I am not trying to hurry you, take as much time as you need, especially these days. I was just wondering if you need me to do anything at the moment.

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2020-05-22 09:35:47

Hi
I wanted to ask how the project is going, what has been done, what are you working on, and do you need any help currently?
I also wanted to ask if we can get in touch privately so I could give you quickly some feetbacks regarding the game. I am back to playing PES so I started making notes and ideas.
You can contact me on my e-mail [email protected] and we also could make a dropbox folder, with our thoughts and also with an excel sheet with player names, informations and stats such as passing speed, crossing, short passes, finishing, defending, running etc.

Best Regards

Stella rossa di Belgrado
We Love you Red Star, we do

2020-05-22 14:38:51

robjoy wrote:

Awesome. We'll see how pricing and availability turns out later on, but he is definitely a candidate for me.

@hadi.gsf Any luck with the formations? I am not trying to hurry you, take as much time as you need, especially these days. I was just wondering if you need me to do anything at the moment.

Been very busy with work. will start working on it from today!

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2020-09-14 16:39:22

Apologys for reviving this topic, but I can't help but wonder how this project is coming along?

I used to be an aventurer like you. Then I took a knee in the arrow.

2020-09-14 18:48:02

Hello, I am sad to say that I am just finding this topic. Honestly I wish I could have seen it from the moment it was put up, but I wasn't really on this site much when it came out. However, I just wanted to say that I absolutely love the ideas for this game, and I am a huge fan of fifa and games like that. If you need any help with ideas, testing, or anything else, I would be happy to help. I am not experienced when it comes to coding, so I really couldn't do anything like that, but I could help with the ideas and testing like I said before, or even with things like commentary, as I am very much used to how football commentary goes. Just let me know if I could be of any use.

It seems that common sense is a lost art. I am here as a special type of artist to bring that beauty back. If you don't like my work, prove that yours is better. Paint me a beautiful picture of life. Otherwise, I have no interest.

2021-02-16 13:56:24

Hi,
Sorry for topic necromancy, but are there any updates on the project? Is it still a thing?

Greetings and happy gaming, Julian

If you say you never lie, you're a liar.
Oh, and #freeGCW

2021-02-16 14:13:09

2. I can state without a doubt that AF is going to have the most complex AI ever written for an audio game. Perfecting this is very likely going to take up most of my time until the initial version is out. I'm going to explain game AI in a bit more detail. hello skynet

"But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain,
ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker?  Did you ever wonder what
made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?"

2021-02-16 15:44:19

I realise that. But after roughly a year without an update you can ask if the project is still being worked on, right?

Greetings and happy gaming, Julian

If you say you never lie, you're a liar.
Oh, and #freeGCW

2021-02-16 16:04:10

I can just say, oh my god. if this ever gets released, it will be my favourite game, no fucking dout. keep it up, i hope it's not abandoned, i really do.

I love audiogames, a specially some offline ones like top speed.

2021-02-16 16:38:18

This would be a huge game changer or the audio gaming world, and as a football fan, I am excited.

Their is no such thing as a master.  One is never done learning, and those who claim to be a master at something are far from becoming one!!

2021-02-16 18:09:06

Same here. That's why I asked if there's been any word about this project from the developer lately.

Greetings and happy gaming, Julian

If you say you never lie, you're a liar.
Oh, and #freeGCW

2021-11-27 23:11:12

Hi all,
I'm here to post an update regarding the project. At the moment, my biggest issue is that I'm unfortunately unable to work on this full-time, so all work comes from the free time I currently have.

For the last year or so, I've been working on the AI, since it is what is going to be the backbone of the game, at least until multiplayer is added. This currently means a 4-4-2 formation, but once this is done, I can focus on others as well.

Here's what's working so far, via simulated matches. I also mention specific gameplay features, which you can perform as a player, these will be added later on, as the design is not set in stone and I am also hoping to get some feedback in the meantime:

* Passing, shooting, dribbling, through-ball.
These are skill and energy stat dependent, more about these later.
There are two types of passes, short and long. These can either target a player, can auto target one or more players who asked for the ball depending on what position they are in (e.g. how far are they from the goal, are there opponent players surrounding them), or pass in a direction if you are anticipating a teammate, or just want to pass the ball into the net from close range. Short and long passes are identical except for the passing distance, but they are likely going to be mapped to two different buttons for a quicker gameplay experience.

Shooting is perhaps the simplest from the player's perspective, as you can only shoot in a specific direction. This may or may not be dependent on the power stat, while the shooting skill will massively influence it. From an AI perspective, shooting happens based on several factors: near the goal, if there are no other available teammates, or passing would be too risky, i.e. the opponent's players are putting on pressure. Near the opponent's goal, or if there is a clear passage between the goal and the ball and the player feels that its worth the risk. This is either because the goal score is ideal, e.g. you're in the lead, there are teammates around to get the ball if it comes back from the keeper or its blocked, or when the score is not ideal and you have nothing to lose, etc. Later on, I need to expand this to shoot when the player is surrounded, preferably for a throw or a corner, if there is no other option.

Dribbling happens automatically as you move, however the dribbling skill influences how accurate this skill is, i.e. a lower dribbling skill can result in losing the ball. In this case, your defensive actions are available. You can also speed this up by running, which is useful if nobody's marking you, or you have open space in front of you.

Currently, defense does not have many options besides a sliding tackle (still not sure if this is going to be timed), but there are other defensive actions I'd like to add. Unlike in Fifa, I'm thinking about a semi-reaction-based system that rewards how well you recognize and anticipate what's going to happen, e.g. you pressure your opponent to pass when his mark is near, focus on making your opponent dribble the ball out of play or at least try to force your opponent to decide on something you or your teammates cover already, including the goalkeeper.

Most game rules are also in, including requests for a fast throw-in or a fast free kick, using the off-side rule defensively, penalty kicks, the referee getting in the ball's way, corner kicks and positioning, substitutions and stat and skill boosts at the beginning of the second half.

There are skills and stats, currently: dribbling, passing, shooting, as well as strength and energy. This is not set in stone, and there is definitely plenty to add and improve, such as aggressiveness, concentration, etc.

It is currently possible to set how far up the pitch the team should be, based on 4 quarters. The higher this is, the more susceptible a team is going to be to counters, and getting the ball past the defense in general. Counters are currently not possible, i.e. players won't try to create situations where they can outrun the opponent.

This is unfortunately not much, and there is still an incredible amount of work to be done, especially when it comes to gameplay.

Since the game itself is fast-paced, the most challenging part is to convey the position of players on the pitch, e.g. to know if anyone's running with you to assist, to know if there are opponent players around you, where the goalkeeper is, etc. We can automate a lot of this, e.g. only show you valid targets you can pass to, disable through balls if nobody is behind the opponent's defense, etc, but this would make the game feel like it's doing the work instead of you and you are accepting, rather than making choices. As always, any feedback regarding this and other aspects is always very much appreciated. We are creating brand new standards which simply don't exist in the world of audio gaming, so don't feel that we have to emulate existing mainstream titles. A lot of what they have would be quite impossible to recreate without overloading the player's ears via audio.

Regarding future plans, finishing the AI is top priority at the moment, after that, we'll see. The good news is that the AI and the game rules are the most challenging part of this project, closely followed by the gameplay design, so tackling these early will speed up development later on.

----------
Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi