2020-03-24 16:53:49

@25
I mean, sure. But is anyone going to do that?  Has anyone done that already? I highly doubt it.

Also let's say they have.  I sure hope no one uses the same password for their game as for something else important and that no one collects billing info via BGT.

This is really far from okay no matter how you slice it.

My Blog
Twitter: @camlorn38

2020-03-24 18:26:00

first, we have something called man in the middle attack (mitm).
when your connection is not secure, and someone who has access to your wifi or internet by any means, can intercept your packets and send you a virus instead of the update (but you may say that I'll do it from a private internet which is a different matter).
another great option is to check the hash of the file which bgt has support for it.

bitcoin address: 1LyQ3hziMC2DTnCtgM3V1zfuZ73P3CYT9P

2020-03-24 18:28:49

@26, I've broken BGTs cryptography, yes. Its not overly hard to do. Not with the way it does things. If your asking if someones used an encrypted update package? I don't know -- how would I?
But yes, your right -- its unacceptable in this day and age, and anyone who uses BGT is putting themselves at that risk for it.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-03-24 18:52:40

@28
I'm not asking you specifically. That's more a rhetorical question.  I strongly suspect the answer is they aren't.

And I know you already know this, but I think it's worth making the point for others explicitly: not using SSL doesn't put you yourself at risk, it puts your users at risk.

My Blog
Twitter: @camlorn38

2020-03-24 19:39:59

visualstudio wrote:

the short answer: you can't because it requires json parsing which bgt doesn't provide (though there are ways around like calling the api with another language like php and returning the result as something else and parse it with bgt, but it requires a web hosting or so which i don't recommend (have experience with writing a translation api which used json))
long answer: undead assault uses twython (I think) which is a wrapper around twitters api.
also,,, python has support for parsing of json even in it's standard library so, no other languages like php.

What is the problem of using a web language like php to communicate with apis besides the need to have a hosting server?
Particularly I think the best option when the idea is to use languages limited in functions and resources, as is the case with bgt. There are many other scripting languages that are even more limited.
If the problem is the apis, any of them can break (stop working), regardless of any more modern language or some other method.
Finally, PHP has functions for parsing json, such as turning it into an object and vice versa.

@ 1
If you can use php for this, try to see what you can do with codebird:
https://github.com/jublo/codebird-php

2020-03-24 20:01:06 (edited by philip_bennefall 2020-03-24 20:02:43)

When I said check for updates, I meant the simplest possible approach where you ask the server if there is a new update and then simply redirect the user to the website. I never actually built an autoupdater with the http facilities. Hashing helps some and I do hope that anyone who has written an autoupdater uses it, but hashes can also be circumvented by someone who is determined enough. So I definitely agree with the points above.

Back when I implemented http about 9 years ago, I wanted a quick solution and I did not know nearly as much about cryptography and networking as I do now, and I considered ssl to really only be necessary when submitting sensitive data such as credit cards, which was never the intended usage. But as I said above, were I doing it today, ssl would obviously be a must. And since I have no intention to go back and revive BGT, I highly recommend that people move on.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall

2020-03-24 21:14:09

we can't, we are familia with it, we can make whatever we want with it now philip, thats the problem, with it we can  answer everything that we need

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2020-03-24 21:18:02 (edited by visualstudio 2020-03-24 23:04:02)

gabriel-schuck wrote:

What is the problem of using a web language like php to communicate with apis besides the need to have a hosting server?

there are many many problems. one of them is maintaining that php or that kind of script.
another is bandwidth limit.
the third problem is that if the api that you are calling has limits for example 10 in a minute and 30 clients request your script which requests that api, that api will ban the ip address of your host.
should i tell you more problems beside all of these?
additionally, keep denial of service (dDos) in mind.

gabriel-schuck wrote:

Particularly I think the best option when the idea is to use languages limited in functions and resources, as is the case with bgt. There are many other scripting languages that are even more limited.

you are true, but these languages are not made for these features in mind and they are not good at performing these tasks.
you require lots of twicking and lots of boilerplate code in other languages to achieve that goal.

gabriel-schuck wrote:

If the problem is the apis, any of them can break (stop working), regardless of any more modern language or some other method.

thats a different matter. if that happens, your php script will break as well, so your bgt client (as what happened to the translation service that i've made for bgt).

gabriel-schuck wrote:

Finally, PHP has functions for parsing json, such as turning it into an object and vice versa.

so, what does it provide for bgt?
weather you want or not, you have to write code in these languages in a way that you can parse from bgt.

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2020-03-24 21:19:17

32, no you can't.
31, that's the problem though. Some people believe that BGT is the best thing since sliced bread. 32 explained it all -- they use it because they believe, falsely, that it can do everything they could ever ask of it. As such they refuse to learn any other language because other languages are (somehow) inferior, or so I'm lead to believe based on the attitudes of some.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-03-24 21:41:46

@32:

Of course you can still choose to use it, that is not the point I am trying to make. My point is that there are other solutions that will do what you want, and more. Familiarity is one thing, and there's nothing wrong with using something that you are familiar with in general. But when familiarity causes stagnation and an unwillingness to adopt to new and better technologies, it is a problem. Using an unmaintained piece of software which is actively discouraged by the author is not a good idea. Though of course, in the end you must make your own decision. I can only tell you what I recommend as the original author.

@33:

I have also seen this trend, but let me be clear that I have never claimed that there are no other alternatives out there. If people make that assumption, it is unfortunate and is not what I intended when I released the engine. I intended it to solve a few problems that I had at the time, which it did. But beyond that, there are certainly a lot of limitations that make it unsuitable for production use today. Technology has moved on.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall

2020-03-24 21:52:00

Bgt is good for beginners. That’s my opinion because i am a beginner. I think it has a really good manual. The reason i am not switching to other languages right now is i just started learning bgt.

Best regards: Marco

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2020-03-24 22:58:15

@35, the "no alternatives" thing was an implication that I'd gotten from various posts about people who refused to switch to better alternatives. Its a shame that what authors of programs say doesn't carry as much weight as it should.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-03-24 23:00:48

@36:
there are a lot of great manuals for other languages.
consider someone from mainstream community who doesn't heard about BGT wants to learn a language.
what he should do?
this is true with people in our community.
when BGT wasn't exist before or many of us started with mainstream languages like c-style languages.

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2020-03-25 00:18:43 (edited by amerikranian 2020-03-25 00:30:36)

I think the problem  those who stick with BGT have with other manuals is that they are great for general syntax, but they do not give a 100% guide on how to create a game. Not just a game, but an audio game.  That last one knocks out pretty much all of create a game yourself guides out there.  People who start with BGT expect for things to be handed to them on a SilverPlatter when they make the switch to another language. Most of them do not put in the necessary effort to do any kind of research necessary to find a library’s that they wish.  They don’t need to, after all. BGT still runs, and until it stops to do so, and even afterwards, people will still use it. People will use it because it has all the resources one could want at their fingertips.  By providing such a vast compendium of information, the tutorial actually hurts those who begin with a language that hands you everything.  I myself am a primary example of this. As much as I love python, I wish that I would have learned a language which enforces stricter rules on the programmer, as making a switch caused me to realize all the little bad habits that I have. The more of proverbial freedom the language gives to the user (less worry about what happens under the hood, more functions to be used), the more difficult it is going  to be to switch to another, much more strict language.
That's the problem, too. I think we all sometimes forget how large of a jump we're asking someone to make. In the case of "go learn Python" which often gets thrown at all the new BGT developers, we're essentially asking them to go live in a country in which their mother tongue was not only spoken, but not even heard of. Frankly, it's terrifying. I'm not saying to go and post along the lines of "Wow! Good job! You did the most difficult thing ever!" on every topic pronouncing a switch to another language besides BGT, but we all need to realize that it's a huge jump that we want someone to do.

Coding is not hard. No, not at all.
What is hard is making code that accepts different and sometimes unexpected types of input and still works.
This is what truly takes a large amount of effort on a developer's part.

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2020-03-25 00:26:40

@39, points to you. My first programming language ever was C++, ironically enough. I learned BGT in 2013, but moved to PB, then back to C++. Then I started learning others. But ultimately if you learn an actual programming language that teaches you how the mainstream world does things, your open to more possibilities and ways of doing things. Languages with manuals that give you everything just aren't the best kinds of manuals, unfortunate as that is. But we've seriously derailed this topic.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-03-25 00:29:20

I just edited post 39 to explain my last point in greater detail.
@40, indeed. However, I do believe that the original topic has ran it's course, seeing as the OP is now banned.

Coding is not hard. No, not at all.
What is hard is making code that accepts different and sometimes unexpected types of input and still works.
This is what truly takes a large amount of effort on a developer's part.

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2020-03-25 09:31:25 (edited by ivan_soto 2020-03-25 09:32:06)

I would agree with the idea of well just stop using BGT, but there are some massive audio games like STW for example, that probably will never be rewritten in BGT because the dev doesn't want to rewrite everything they rewrote in 5 years.
I don't think that open sourcing BGT would do a disservice to the community, if anyone wants to update it with https support, or other functions they can providing that you make it clear on paper that this is not something you recommend someone learn off.
It is up to you, the author of BGT to make this decision, but I'm just trying to look at it from other's point of view when it comes to why switching may not be as simple as picking up a python, CPP, or pb book and rewriting their games.

Ivan M. Soto.
Feel free to check out my work and services.
http://ims-productions.com

2020-03-25 10:26:59

I agree with Ivan about open sourcing it, but as he said, we can’t make the authors decisions.

Best regards: Marco

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2020-03-25 10:31:51

@42:

That is absolutely an important question to consider. But I think we have to differentiate between the API and the implementation in this case. If someone reimplements an API compatible engine, older games would still run. That is the only way I can see it moving forward. But releasing the current implementation as open source is not something I am interested in doing, for the reasons outlined above. In order to be viable it would need to be reimplemented anyway, so there needs to be a very dedicated effort behind such an endeavor. Personally I have plans to release more open source projects in the future, but a BGT reimplementation will not be one of them.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall