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Funny that about 14 months into this and we're still asking this question. I feel as much as people should want things to go back to normal they should have some level of understanding and routine by now
@1099 I am a citizen of India and not of the United states.
@1099 OK, I'm seeing this pop up on so many places online, and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit. So more people wear masks, transmission slows, but it's still here. businesses tentatively open their doors until 3 people get it again, which will happen by the way, and close again. That does more harm in the long term than staying closed. It's more overhead to try to start back up then shut down then to stay down until we have a handle on this thing.
Wear your masks so we can get back to work sooner. It's nothing but the left attacking the right. There's absolutely no substance to it.
there actually is sorry. Those businesses close back down because the idiot customers walking through the door wern't wearing masks, and idiot republican governers don't require it, or allow refusing service to someone who won't mask up.
That doesn't mean that if they were all wearing masks, that it would stay open. This logic is so broken.
no it isn't. I would first recommend understanding logic before saying its broken. Here is how it works. Wearing masks significantly reduces the chance of transmision, and thus the possibility of them having to close because someone tested posetive. If your customers and employees all wear them, the risk is significantly lower. Refusing to wear a mask because it doesn't offer 100% protection is like saying you won't wear a seatbelt because it won't garantie you won't be injured in a crash.
OK, but if everyone wore masks, the virus would still be here. It lowers the rate of transmission, it does not eliminate it entirely. So yes, the logic is broken.
The aim is not to eliminate the virus entirely. The aim is to protect one another until we get vaccines that work. We are not looking at a scenario where there are 0 covid-19 cases. We are looking at a scenario where the number of cases is low enough that the medical infrastructure can handle it. It's really no different than the flu in this specific regard. Flu shots do not completely nullify the flu virus; they just make more people resistant to it, thus limiting communicability and thus lessening the chance of overloading doctors and nurses.
The left is not trying to scare you. The left - and let's be fully honest here, most people left of center-right - are trying to get you to realize that it is in everyone's best interest to wear a mask when in public, at least for a while longer. It's looking like Biden is doing fairly well after inheriting Trump's vaccine-related mess (i.e., the prior administration had basically no plan for mass distribution), and Biden is on record saying he expects there will be enough doses for the entire American population by May, I believe. That's pretty good. That's where herd immunity starts to come into the picture. Vaccines give us another layer of protection against a virus we're still not entirely used to.
Let me repeat this for the folks in the back. This is not about fear. I don't want anyone running scared. There is an enormous difference between fear and caution. There is also a difference between fear and responsibility. If you listen to right-wing news sources, they will tell you that you'll never be able to hang out with friends again, that organized events are a thing of the past, and that you'll always, always be wearing a mask in the future. This is simply untrue, and if you want to figure out who's trying to scare whom, look no further than there. The alternative - and this is the view I take - is that I'd rather play safe for awhile now to ensure that everyone is safer down the road. Just getting everyone infected already is not a good choice; have you forgotten that over half a million have died in the last year? Again, that's not fear. It's a fact. If you don't like it, do something about it more productive than moaning about having to wear a little piece of fabric on your face. Sure, it sucks, and it's inconvenient, and we're all pretty sick of it, but it does help, and it's one more tool we have in our toolbox to get through this as a species.
I'm sorry, but there just aren't any good-faith points to counter this. I respect that some people are thoroughly done with this whole thing, but that doesn't matter. It isn't done with us, and we're not ready to just shrug it off yet. We'll get there, but we aren't there just yet. So please, stay safe, and try to keep others safe to the best of your ability.
I'm not even saying wear one or don't. I'm saying it's stupid to say that it'll all be over if you just wore a mask. I wear them when I go out, even though I hate it. But if everyone followed suit and wore one, this still would not be over. Jayde, you pretty much confirmed what I've been saying. It's not over until we have a vaccine that works on every mutation, and effective therapeutics.
Look, you're not gonna change the minds of people who don't want to wear masks. I don't even think it should be legal to enforce it, but don't say that this would be over if you just did your part. It would not be over.
Suck it up and shut up already. Yes, some politicians, be this in the US or here in Austria have made huge mistakes trying to deal with this. But listening to the expert's consensus is the least y'all can do when it comes to such stupidly tryvial things as wearing masks during certain situations. I'm telling you, you Americans partially have it good. Here, if you wanna go to school, you're getting tested. If you're not getting tested, you're not going to in person school. This is a thing here, and I'm pretty sure if the US tried anything like it all the parents would start losing their shit. And AS much as I don't like the testing and the masks, it's justified. I have the opinion that it should be possible to do things like in person gatherings or cultural events, even right now, and definitely in the next few months as it's gonna get a lot warmer in half of the world. I'd have absolutely no problem with people reopening cinemas, restaurants, and consert venues. Just make sure there's a testing mandate and people have *free* access to tests.
GCW, I agree with you there. I don't think most credible sources are trying to tell you that wearing masks is the be-all and end-all. It isn't. It is a stopgap. It has always been a stopgap. It is the proverbial bucket on the floor when your roof is leaking. No, it doesn't actually fix the leak, but as long as you pay attention to the bucket, it limits the damage all that leaking water can do until such time that you can patch the hole in your ceiling.
Now, of course, that analogy breaks down, since leaking roofs aren't contagious, but I trust I've proven my point. There is a measure we can all take which will limit (not remove, but limit) the damage being done. That measure is annoying, and comes with its own harm for some folks, but there is incontrovertible proof that it does some good...enough good, in fact, that people with far more expertise than you or I proposed it for good reason, knowing the potential for harm. The same holds true for stuff like public gathering restrictions, physical distancing and even lockdowns. All of those things have harm attached, but they also have good attached. Frankly, all of these measures were only ever designed to hold things off from going completely insane while better therapeutics and competent vaccinations were established. We aren't fully there yet, but we're getting there. This is not a political issue, and it never was. This is not about your freedom, and it never was.
Now, to the testing mandates and such? Fully agree. If you want to hang out with your buddy or whatever, go for it; you take risk into your own hands, but go for it. I'm not going to shame you for stuff like that, even if it's playing with fire a little. But I would be fully in favour of "no test, no service" in the short term for some places, because as friggin' annoying as that all can be, it's another way to keep people safe and to protect them from one another. The folks running around potentially spreading the disease because they can't be bothered to protect others, and because no one can force them, are in my opinion the largest problem. Americans in general have turned freedom into a sort of holy cow that must never, ever be touched, and it's become toxic, as last year proved. Freedom doesn't matter much if you're dead from Covid-19.
Oh also, about infecting others, even if we go past the fact on how morally and ethically bankrupt it is, the virus is mutating, and it is confirmed that the variant in South Africa infects people who had the original coronavirus infection.
hi. what do you guys have to say on the who worning of return of spanish flue?
Hmmm, I'm no expert here, but don't we have some form of immunity against it? Both with modern medicine and the general flu vaxcine?
I can actually see why trust in masks is starting to go down, since the recommendation is that we now wear two of them because, oopsy, turns out one wasn't doing anything. At least that's how it seems to have been presented. I don't think that will ever become a mandate, but it does make one question whether we've actually been slowing the spread or not, at least in that regard.
On the other hand, it does make sense. There is so much variety when it comes to the types of masks people wear, from what the actual hell were you thinking, all the way up to N95's, which obviously aren't and shouldn't be available to the general public. It makes it almost impossible to study efficacy with any semblance of certainty. I don't think masks are hurting anything, and I wouldn't advocate against wearing them, because I could be, and most likely am, wrong. But there's just so many layers of this unfolding in recent times. It's exhausting dealing with people who believe that when they get tested, their negative result isn't real because the tests weren't designed to detect the variants. No amount of yelling, cajoling, or silent treatment will make them see that, if the tests didn't pick up variants...how the fuck do we know they exist in the first place then? That's just one example of bullshit I've had to deal with lately in regards to this.
As for things going back to normal, I've heard that the state of Texas has essentially waved a magic wand and said, "go 'head, y'all, do whatever you want." Which is like, I don't even know how to feel about it. Unless they've had an unusually speedy vaccination process, a feat which doesn't seem likely even if you don't take into account the crippling power outages they recently experienced, there's no excuse for that. Yet I also feel like the governor and state officials have more or less made guinea pigs out of its citizens, which is immoral as hell, but also...could it work?
Our great mentally incompetent I mean perfectly functioning president who was absolutely fairly elected and absolutely isn't a criminal has nothing to add to fighting COVID except for the great idea to fight the virus by wearing another mask on top of the first? Huh? The virus will just go through two masks and the carbon dioxide poisoning will continue. I wish people would wake up! This stupidity has been going on for almost a year now. How long is it going to take for enough of the population to say enough is enough? Will it be 5 years? 10? Never? I'm not taking a vaccine either. I'm healthy, and if I do catch the virus, I'll do what normal people do and isolate myself from the public until I'm better. Isolating perfectly healthy people makes no rational sense. We keep the sick away from everyone until they're better. If the virus mutates, it mutates. This is how viruses work.
This is why I don't go very many places, especially now. If you're terrified of the virus, wear a mask if you truly think it helps, but don't force everyone else to. If you think I have the virus, stay away from me if you're that terrified. If you're so afraid you'll die, don't go anywhere or hey, why not wear a hazmat suit. This is as bad as the zombie plague! Aaaaaaaaaaaa! Common sense is not so common and this is what the left loves!
Is the Corona Virus the beginning of the end of freedom? Absolutely! If people allow this nonsense to continue, what else will they allow the government to do? It's already been established that you can't say there was election fraud, which is by very definition what a totalitarian government would do. How long will it be before people are shot on sight for not wearing a mask? How long will it be before they say you can't go anywhere if you don't have the vaccine? I wouldn't mind that personally. As I said, I don't go very many places at all. As Mr. perfectly healthy and absolutely not a criminal would say, "Come on, man!"
Chris, you need to remember that there are people like me in the world who will absolutely call you on your bullshit, so here goes.
1. Biden has actually used his power to ensure that there will be enough vaccine doses to give all American adults their vaccine by the end of May. This is up two months from early projections, which had it being promised by the end of July. It's important to note that president Biden is not specifically responsible for the research that made the vaccines possible, nor for their direct creation; it's taking the hard work of thousands of people to make this happen. However, he is using the tools at his disposal to ensure that resources are available, and this is the result. And one of the reasons it's even taking this long? The ex-inciter-in-chief was doing virtually nothing to help out everyday Americans. It has been repeatedly said and demonstrated that Biden inherited a colossal mess because of Trump's fuckery. In other words, suggesting that Biden is doing nothing is patently false...like, provably, measurably false. Did you also forget the mask mandate on federal property? Did you forget the additional spending he has invoked, as Trump should have, to up the creation of PPE? Did you forget the huge stimulus package that's currently sitting in the senate...you know, the one that promises billions in aid to states experiencing problems, not to mention stimulus checks for those who need them? Look, I'm not an enormous Biden fan, and he's already done things I'm not super thrilled about. But he's inherited an enormous dumpster fire, and it looks like he's handling most of the flaming wreckage pretty well. Seriously, if you're gonna criticize the dude, at least do it with facts. Trust me, you do not want to throw stones on this; I'm willing and able to argue you straight into the ground because I, unlike you, have done my research and know what I'm talking about. I've already destroyed at least one right-winger right here on the forum, and I'm ready to do it again.
2. You're still a fan of the big lie, I see. Bet you were wishing you could've been there with a weapon on the 6th too, eh? Maybe hunt down a few radical liberal socialist communist leftists and bash their skulls in, because clearly they oppose your lord and saviour, and thus must be disposed of.
Look, here's the dirt. Your guy lost. Sixty-plus times in the courts, including a couple of SCOTUS rulings. By seven million votes in the popular count, by a landslide in the electoral college. Dozens of court cases failed to find fraud. Dozens of rulings, even from people on the right, failed to find impropriety in the election...except, of course, the sort of impropriety that has you bullying state officials to "find" precisely the amount of votes it would take to win Georgia. Guess you forgot about that, but that's okay, because I'm here to remind you. . Most of the intelligence community say that this was the fairest, most secure election in history. But republicans lost the presidency, and ultimately the senate, and all you can do is scream about how Biden is illegitimate? This is straight-up insanity. And if you're currently either outraged at my assertion of your support for the attempted coup on the 6th, or are thinking I'm out of my mind for making assumptions about you with no proof, guess what? You are playing straight into my expectations. I didn't say what I said above because I truly believe you're a violent person who wants to kill people; I did it to prove a point. If you object to me characterizing you this way without solid proof, congratulations. You should be doing so, because what I did was make an accusation of huge potential wrongdoing based on circumstantial evidence. If you're a believer in avoiding hypocrisy though, Chris, this is where I point out that you're doing the exact same thing to your current president. You think you know better than thousands of legal experts, politicians, security experts, intelligence experts, and eighty-one million Americans. Who the fuck do you even think you are? Do you have knowledge the rest of us don't have in order to continue spewing these sorts of baseless attacks? I, at least, used prior behaviour from you to inform my guesswork; what the hell is your excuse?
When the only people who are saying the election was rigged were to one degree or another responsible for trying to rig it, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and works against you more effectively than I ever could.
3. Wait, hold up. You're claiming that the left wants you to stay afraid, but who, exactly, is it that's talking about maybe having to wear masks for three hundred years? Who, exactly, is trying to convince you that you'll never, ever be able to convene with friends and family ever again? Who, exactly, is it who's talking about being shot for not wearing a mask? Who, exactly, is it that is taking every possible excuse to hyperbolize the restrictions, and the consequences of those restrictions, in order to scare people into resisting them? You get three guesses; left or right. Go ahead. I'll wait.
You absolutely do not get to lecture anyone about fear when the entirety of your stance boils down to "the left is trying to control you". This is called projection. If you don't know what projection is, I highly encourage you to look it up. You've got a pretty bad case of it, bro.
4. You say that we should only isolate the sick. If people were only contagious after showing symptoms, this might work. But we know that you can be an asymptomatic carrier, or could be contagious for days before showing symptoms. This is why Covid-19 cautions are preventive, not reactive. And this is also why you have absolutely zero future in the field of virology, immunobiology or anything dealing with hard science. If this simple fact is beyond you, then it's really not worth arguing with you further, because you'll go on believing whatever suits your narrative no matter how much hard evidence is provided to you. For you, it's about being free, not about being right. It's about owning the libs, not about owning the truth. Good luck with that in the months and years to come. Your base - i.e., the people who believe the same insanity that you purport to believe - does not have enough power to make another play for an election theft, and that unhinged group is growing smaller every day. Hundreds of thousands of former republicans have left the party when they realized that the GOP would say and do almost anything - including fomenting sedition on January 6, then exonerating the man who set it all up - in order to maintain power. Do a little research, and you might even find the GOP lawmakers who are busy trying to introduce voter suppression laws because, in their own words, "without them, we can't win". Just take a long hard look at that for awhile, if you have the courage. If you don't...well, I'll be here the next time you want to lie.
And okay, now that that's out of the way:
Turtlepower, multiple masks will work better than one mask, but even one will significantly lower your likelihood of transmission. If you want to wear more, go for it; if you don't, I don't think anyone is going to chase you for it. You're still doing more than folks like Chris if you're taking precautions.
Also, re: Texas? All Abbot did was remove the mask mandate and the restrictions. I personally know a lot of Texans who think that Abbot, Cancun Cruise and all the rest of the GOP government there are incompetent. Personally, I think Abbot is doing this so that people will forget not only all the lies about the Texas power grid during the storm, but also the fact that their elected senator fucked off to Mexico when it got too cold. Talk about a tone-deaf message to everyday Texans, am I right? It is possible that Texas will be all right, but it's also possible that Texas's caseload will explode if people just go back to business as usual. Of course, if that happens, Texas will no doubt cry out for help, then mock the folks like AOC who inevitably put people over party and rush to their assistance. Seriously, AOC did more for the state of Texas than most Texans did, with the possible exception of Beto O'Rourke, the dude who lost to Cruise but who still set up phone banks to call vulnerable Texans in order to ensure that they were warm and fed during the power grid failure and cold temperatures. Abbot and his ilk are feeding off the right's keen desire to "get back to normal", giving them what they want, and trying to distract from their most recent slew of unmitigated failures.
I won't speak on this issue. I want to keep away myself from any debate.
@119. who cares? Keep out and nobody would really care.
I know exactly why Accman gave up. You and every other leftist will never budge. You've all swallowed the lies that Trump and his supporters are horrible totalitarian monsters, global warming is real, protests are okay as long as they're not white people participating, etc, etc, etc. Why is the wonderful Biden releasing illegal aliens who test positive for the extremely dangerous virus into Texas without quarantining them? Why is it okay for BLM to riot and loot without wearing masks? Everyone has to wear a mask, right? Oh wait, that's just Americans. Illegal aliens and other minorities can do whatever they want, damn the consequences. hypocrisy and projection, that's all it is.
That capitol protest wasn't meant to be violent, but are you shocked that the left would use this opportunity to fuel Trump Derangement Syndrome even more? Did you miss the video that Trump released telling people to go home in peace? Oh wait, I'm pretty sure it was taken down because that's not the image the left wants to show. They say this is a terrorist attack? What about all the riots which did far more damage that were ultimately ignored? Come on, man! Oh hell, what's the point anymore?
@chris its sad, I thought you were smart. But it seems that you are like the rest of these delusional trumpies. And i thought you were reasonable... Apparently not
@1121, you seriously don't think global warming is real? Seriously?! How can you be so ignorant?
Seriously, dude, your literally ignoring science now. Science tells us, through countless scientific studies -- not done by any political group but by experts in the field -- that global warming is real and does exist. Granted, global warming is just a part of nature and its a cycle that Earth will keep going through, but we are actively contributing to it. We are making it far, far worse than it normally would be. I suppose you'll next say that HIV or AIDS isn't real, too? Or that QAnon is 100-percent accurate and that its really not a bunch of delusional people with way too much time on their hands? God, it seems like people like you will use literally any excuse and justification to self-justify your actions. Its utterly disgusting. And I thought Trump was bad...
No, the left won't budge, because we know we're right. We listen to science, we listen to common sense, we listen to facts. That's not something I've seen the GOP do for years. No, the GOP is quite happy to create its own custom reality where onnly what it says is real and everything else doesn't exist. Sorry, but that's not how the real world works.
Uh, @21, are you saying minorities aren't Americans?
@Ethin: What do you mean by GOP?
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